Love Me?—Love Me Not!

[Seasoned by Grace]

I love the conversations here, and all your varying opinions "with scripture included", about >can a true Christian lose their salvation<, and just being able to follow along without comment - NICE,
I decided to add my as you , as all this was driving me crazy with all the following verses in my head coming into mind.

Do any of you realize how many times this topic has come up on every forum. Please guys, lets move on to some meat !!
This is an elementary teaching of Christ.

Hebrew 6, (1-2)"Let us move on from the elementary teachings of Christ,and be taken forward to maturity.and not on instructions on "Baptism, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead"...and so on

(4) (1-2) It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tested the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and who have fallen away, TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO REPENTANCE."

Sooo,,,we are told here that even the teachings about "BAPTISM" is elementary and to get past it.
This conversation goes on to say that this topic of can Christians fall away and be lost, AND THEY CAN, is also an elementary teaching, and those in the conversation are told to move on to conversations for maturity and salvation.

If you were new Christians I wouldn't expect to see any of you here discussing "Theology", so I assume you have walked the walk for a while, and need some Godly encouragement to move past this topic, that has been , and stop trying to win this conversation "NICELY", and please speak of topics that are not only edifying for yourselves, but for edifying other, and stop competing with each other trying to be more correct.

Even if you don't agree with God about who can be lost, this is still His salvation not ours, and it's His RULES not ours !!!

So please, accept Gods very clear words on who CAN'T BE SAVED, and don't complicate any of this with your own opinions that ultimately sound like your speaking what Gods truth is, to your own destruction..

By the way I'm not one of the kids here . I'm a 77 year old who has been with God going on 50 years, and have preached in 2 churches, and served God over 40 years, so this isn't my 1st RODEO., nor am I a youngster who speaks like I know it all. I don't. But I guarantee you wouldn't have wanted to walk in my shoes to get here, and be able to say what I have.

Love you all, as we endure and walk this road of dust and dirt, to blindly find our eyes of faith through the confusion of the dirt of lies and hypocricy, so we can see clearly, HIS TRUTH.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I love the conversations here, and all your varying opinions "with scripture included", about >can a true Christian lose their salvation<, and just being able to follow along without comment - NICE,
I decided to add my as you , as all this was driving me crazy with all the following verses in my head coming into mind.

Do any of you realize how many times this topic has come up on every forum. Please guys, lets move on to some meat !!
This is an elementary teaching of Christ.

Hebrew 6, (1-2)"Let us move on from the elementary teachings of Christ,and be taken forward to maturity.and not on instructions on "Baptism, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead"...and so on

(4) (1-2) It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tested the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and who have fallen away, TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO REPENTANCE."

The impossible to repent is not a necessary position for one to be in. Those that have fallen (Heb 6:6) into a state where they continue to "crucify" and "put" to shame (present tense verbs) Christ do find themselves in a position where it will be impossible to repent. Christ being 'the reason' one repents yet if one continues in/remains in a state of crucifying and putting to shame 'the reason' then it will be impossible to repent, But if one quits crucifying and putting to shame Christ he can come to repentance. Being in this "impossible" state is by choice therefore not a necessary state one has to be in and remain in.

Sooo,,,we are told here that even the teachings about "BAPTISM" is elementary and to get past it.
This conversation goes on to say that this topic of can Christians fall away and be lost, AND THEY CAN, is also an elementary teaching, and those in the conversation are told to move on to conversations for maturity and salvation.

If you were new Christians I wouldn't expect to see any of you here discussing "Theology", so I assume you have walked the walk for a while, and need some Godly encouragement to move past this topic, that has been , and stop trying to win this conversation "NICELY", and please speak of topics that are not only edifying for yourselves, but for edifying other, and stop competing with each other trying to be more correct.

Even if you don't agree with God about who can be lost, this is still His salvation not ours, and it's His RULES not ours !!!

So please, accept Gods very clear words on who CAN'T BE SAVED, and don't complicate any of this with your own opinions that ultimately sound like your speaking what Gods truth is, to your own destruction..

By the way I'm not one of the kids here . I'm a 77 year old who has been with God going on 50 years, and have preached in 2 churches, and served God over 40 years, so this isn't my 1st RODEO., nor am I a youngster who speaks like I know it all. I don't. But I guarantee you wouldn't have wanted to walk in my shoes to get here, and be able to say what I have.

Love you all, as we endure and walk this road of dust and dirt, to blindly find our eyes of faith through the confusion of the dirt of lies and hypocricy, so we can see clearly, HIS TRUTH.
My name is OLIGOS

I am of the belief that if one has the basic fundamentals wrong then he cannot be right with the "meat". From all the arguing and disagreements among individuals and all the various religious groups, most don't have the basics right. Just on this forum alone you will find disagreements over OSAS, baptism, repentance and faith to name just a few. Can't move to the 'meat' until fundamentals are correct.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Just wanted to share my opinion on Hebrews 4. I don't know if this will address your point here, but I see it that in the first verse Paul was not assuming that all to whom he was speaking were believers, but is expressing his desires that none of those he was speaking to ("any of you") would miss entering God's salvation (rest). In verse 2 Paul shows that though the Gospel of Christ was preached unto all of them ("us"), it only "profited" the believers in the Gospel, as the following verse shows that those who "have believed do enter" into His rest (salvation).

Heb 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
Heb 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

I see Paul is writing to Christians and includes himself by the pronoun "us". Verse 11 speaks of those who fall after the same example of unbelief. Paul is writing to believers warning them about 'falling' into unbelief. This rest is just only for those that are and remain a Christian for the rest can be lost due to unbelief. Hence I see Paul addressing believers/Christians not those that were 'never really saved'.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I see Paul addressing believers/Christians not those that were 'never really saved'.

ABSOLUTELY !!

But we are still drinking "MILK" here!!

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

ABSOLUTELY !!

But we are still drinking "MILK" here!!

I am to defend the gospel whether it is over a matter of milk or meat, Phil 1:17.

 

[netchaplain]

Heb 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
Heb 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

I see Paul is writing to Christians and includes himself by the pronoun "us". Verse 11 speaks of those who fall after the same example of unbelief. Paul is writing to believers warning them about 'falling' into unbelief. This rest is just only for those that are and remain a Christian for the rest can be lost due to unbelief. Hence I see Paul addressing believers/Christians not those that were 'never really saved'.

Paul was instructing recent Hebrew converts to remember what happened to unbelievers among them in the wilderness. Many perished because of unbelief. Not others becoming unbelievers, but never choosing to believe (trust God).

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Paul was instructing recent Hebrew converts to remember what happened to unbelievers among them in the wilderness. Many perished because of unbelief. Not others becoming unbelievers, but never choosing to believe (trust God).

Paul is warning believing Hebrews about falling into unbelief.

 

[netchaplain]

Paul is warning believing Hebrews about falling into unbelief.

Would need Scripture references.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Would need Scripture references.

Heb 2:1-3 warned about drifting away
Heb 3:12-13 warned about departing from God let their heart become hardened
Heb 4:1 warned about falling short of that rest
Heb 6 warned about falling into a state where it would be impossible to repent.

 

[netchaplain]

Heb 2:1-3 warned about drifting away

Thanks! It's my understanding that the sense of "neglect so great salvation" is in reference to never taking it to heart in faith by allowing it to pass (slip away) from our minds, and thereby never receiving the truth (v 1).

This is exemplified by the first time the angel of God was writing the initial Law of the Decalogue (v 2) to the Hebrews, in comparison to the first time the Lord spoke His Gospel (v 3).

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Thanks! It's my understanding that the sense of "neglect so great salvation" is in reference to never taking it to heart in faith by allowing it to pass (slip away) from our minds, and thereby never receiving the truth (v 1).

This is exemplified by the first time the angel of God was writing the initial Law of the Decalogue (v 2) to the Hebrews, in comparison to the first time the Lord spoke His Gospel (v 3).

Hebrews 2 was written to Hebrew Christian not to neglect the salvation that had saved them. For neglecting it there remains nothing else to save. They could not drift away from the teachings of Christ if they never had them, they could not neglect salvation if they never really had it therefore cannot warn them about losing what they never really had. But can warn them about losing what they did possess. Apostasy is a real thing and is possible.

 

[netchaplain]

Hebrews 2 was written to Hebrew Christian not to neglect the salvation that had saved them. For neglecting it there remains nothing else to save. They could not drift away from the teachings of Christ if they never had them, they could not neglect salvation if they never really had it therefore cannot warn them about losing what they never really had. But can warn them about losing what they did possess. Apostasy is a real thing and is possible.

The subject matter is “the things which we have heard,” which is the knowledge of salvation, and if it’s “neglected” (Greek for "neglect" is disregard; to make light of; non-receptive), there will be no “escape” of condemnation.

Gill - “To ‘neglect’ this, is to be careless of it; to condemn it, and to despise the ministers of it; and to make anything else but Christ the way of salvation: and the danger such are in is very great; it is not possible that they should escape divine vengeance, since their sin is so great.”

 

[netchaplain]

These Hebrew passages are the same as "receiving the knowledge of the truth" in He 10:26. The subject is just the knowledge of the truth, but not the truth itself; and instead of receiving the truth they continued on in their sins.