Bible Study Luke 5:33-35

[clark thompson]

Luke 5:33-35 King James Version (KJV)
33 And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?
34 And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
35 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

Luke 5:33-35 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
The Question about Fasting

33 And they said to him, “The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.” 34 And Jesus said to them, “Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? 35 The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.”

Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Revised Standard Version of the Bible, copyright © 1946, 1952, and 1971 the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

These are my thoughts, please share yours.

33 Fasting and prayer is important this is why the bring it up but they are doing so to tell them they are in the wrong, they are also comparing John the Baptist to Jesus.

34 Jesus is the bridegroom and we the church are the bride, the bridegroom was gathering His bride, fasting was not done because of this.

35 Jesus actually gives teaching on how we are to fast, they missed this, we as Christians should take time to fast and pray.

 

[Eugene]

Jesus is the bridegroom and we the church are the bride

Are you saying that the entire Church is the bride? Scripture? Thanks.

Jesus actually gives teaching on how we are to fast, they missed this, we as Christians should take time to fast and pray.

According to Paul fasting and hunger were two separate things.
2 Cor 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. What do you call a fast?

Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

 

[Sinthesis]

Notice that Jesus' disciples were not actually accused of failing to pray.

 

[dianegcook]

I believe that the Pharisees, had made rituals of their own, like washing hands and such..
They made a religion out of it....
They also prayed in repetitions...
They did fast, in Acts 13:2,3

If Christ is in you, why fast?
I wondered about that....

 

[Malachi]

Are you saying that the entire Church is the bride? Scripture? T

Well, if the entire Church is the Body, then it follows that the entire Church is the Bride, as well as the Building. The Church is the Lamb's Wife.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:25-27).

 

[Eugene]

Are you saying that the entire Church is the bride? Scripture? Thanks.

Well, if the entire Church is the Body, then it follows that the entire Church is the Bride, as well as the Building. The Church is the Lamb's Wife.

Brother Malachi, that is probably the best reasoning I've heard for the entire Church being the bride; I like that thought, and will certainly consider that to possibly clarify certain prophesies, but I would ask if you believe the entire Church is shown as being judged in Revelation Chapters Two and Three? To me, I see certain parts of the Church having crowns: Smyrna and Philadelphia, and then five portions of the one body of Christ being told to repent or endure consequences. I'll stop here before carrying this forward until I hear your reply.
Thanks and God bless you in Jesus' name.

 

[Malachi]

I would ask if you believe the entire Church is shown as being judged in Revelation Chapters Two and Three?

Brother Eugene,
Thanks for your response. As regards the judgement of the Church, here is what I see:
1. Every believer must stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ to give account of his/her stewardship on earth.
2. The result of that judgement is either rewards and/or crowns or no rewards and loss.
3. This judgement is in Heaven after the Rapture and before the Marriage of the Lamb.
4. The seven churches in Revelation can be treated as allegorical to some degree, but they are to be primarily taken as literal churches in the first century. So I would not apply the portion to the Judgement Seat of Christ.

 

[Eugene]

As regards the judgement of the Church, here is what I see:
1. Every believer must stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ to give account of his/her stewardship on earth.
2. The result of that judgement is either rewards and/or crowns or no rewards and loss.
3. This judgement is in Heaven after the Rapture and before the Marriage of the Lamb.
4. The seven churches in Revelation can be treated as allegorical to some degree, but they are to be primarily taken as literal churches in the first century. So I would not apply the portion to the Judgement Seat of Christ.

Hi again Malachi. With permission to continue by your response I’ll just add some ideas for you to consider.

In Rev 1:12 we see that John had been caught forward in Spirit to the Day of the Lord, but then he hears a voice behind him showing this present Church dispensation; one of the three viewpoints John is told to write about.
From that vantage point in Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are (Speaking of this present time), and the things which shall be hereafter.

Where do we see Jesus? Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks (The one Church at seven different locations) One like unto the Son of man (Jesus), clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. Jesus is walking among us of the Church judging our spiritual walk, and that is exactly what the Judgment Seat of Christ is, and John writes of those things that are good or bad. In Rev 22:12 there shall be no judgment, and only our reward ceremony. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I’ll just briefly address the allegorical thought of the seven churches. To me it is addressing the conditions existing in the Church; the one body of Christ throughout the three viewpoints being showed him by Jesus’ angel of Rev 1:1.
Otherwise why the admonition to correct their conduct or suffer consequence. Writing of Ephesus in Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. (You used to put Christ first in all your ways)
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick (Your assembly was in first place in quality and time) out of his place, except thou repent. Compare this to the Breastplate of Judgment worn by Aaron.
Now just what is being removed from its place, and I’ll use the example of Israel, because we read in 1 Cor 10:11, Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

(Exodus 28:9-10) To start with the 12 tribes worn on the Ephods of Aaron’s shoulders were placed in order of birth. Rueben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulon, Joseph, & Benjamin.
(Exodus 28:29) On the Breastplate of Judgment they are changed in order which are 10 full tribes and two half tribes; Joseph died and the tribe of Levi were priests and led the march by 2000 cubits and were not numbered with tribes of Israel (Num 2:33). Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Rueben, Simeon, Gad, Ephrain, Manasseh, Benjamin, Dan, Asher, & Naphtali.

 

[Malachi]

Hi again Malachi. With permission to continue by your response I’ll just add some ideas for you to consider.

This discussion would probably derail this thread. If you could start a separate thread on the Judgement Seat of Christ, that doctrine can then be discussed in detail.

 

[Jim Parker]

Are you saying that the entire Church is the bride?

It is.
Eph 5:25-27 (RSV) Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

That is the language of a marriage between Christ and the church.

Eph 5:31-32 (RSV) "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;

2Co 11:2 (RSV) I feel a divine jealousy for you, for I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her one husband.

Why would only a part of the church be the Bride of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you saying that the entire Church is the bride? Scripture? Thanks.

According to Paul fasting and hunger were two separate things.
2 Cor 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. What do you call a fast?

Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Hi Eugene,
The Church today means something different.

Many go to church, but they don't belong to the Church.
When Paul wrote his letters one had to really want to be Christian and follow the Way and so
yes, the entire church was the Church, or Body of Christ.

By the time John wrote Revelation, things had already changed. False teachers were infecting the Body and already many in the church (institution) were not in the Body.

This is how I understand this.

Wondering

 

[Jim Parker]

he Church today means something different.

No, it doesn't.
The Church is those who believe and who act like they believe. They are the "Body of Christ."
There were always people faking it. (Judas Iscariot) They aren't part of the church. They are the "tares among the wheat" but they don't affect the status of the wheat.
But the Church is still the Church and still the Bride of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, it doesn't.
The Church is those who believe and who act like they believe. They are the "Body of Christ."
There were always people faking it. (Judas Iscariot) They aren't part of the church. They are the "tares among the wheat" but they don't affect the status of the wheat.
But the Church is still the Church and still the Bride of Christ.

So do you believe that those who joined the Body back at the very beginning and were persecuted for it for just going to church (small c) like some do today, to get out of the house, or for tradition's sake, or because their parents went, or any other reason other than they they serve God.

I think they BELIEVED in Jesus. I think they really meant to be a part of the Body.

This is what I mean by the fact that it was different.

The tares among the wheat.

What does that have to do with what I'm saying.

The field is the world, not the church.
The tares are the unbelievers.

I'm talking about people who make believe they're part of the Body but aren't.
More like the wolves in sheep's clothing.



_

 

[GodsGrace]

I didn't finish my thought in paragraph 1.
Do you not think that the first Christians really MEANT to be a part of the Church??

 

[Jim Parker]

So do you believe that those who joined the Body back at the very beginning and were persecuted for it for just going to church (small c) like some do today, to get out of the house, or for tradition's sake, or because their parents went, or any other reason other than they they serve God.

no

The tares among the wheat. What does that have to do with what I'm saying.

Those would be the ones who want to get out of the house, or for tradition's sake, or because their parents went, or any other reason other than they they serve God.

I'm talking about people who make believe they're part of the Body but aren't.
More like the wolves in sheep's clothing.

Yeah. Like Judas.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Do you not think that the first Christians really MEANT to be a part of the Church??

Absolutely.
And they were very likely to catch hell for being part of it.
SO they were serious.

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolutely.
And they were very likely to catch hell for being part of it.
SO they were serious.

Okay.

This is what I meant by things being different today.

Back then, those that joined the Church, or the Body, really meant it.

Today, we have people in church that don't really mean it.

I don't believe Judas was ever a part of the Body. He even resented the squandering of money for perfume. And who knows what else. I think he was very secular and never understood Jesus' mission.

 

[GodsGrace]

no

Those would be the ones who want to get out of the house, or for tradition's sake, or because their parents went, or any other reason other than they they serve God.

Yeah. Like Judas.

iakov the fool

We agree.
The tares would also relate to those in church who are really of the world - the unsaved, just as bad as those out of the church that are unsaved.

W

 

[Eugene]

The Church today means something different.
Many go to church, but they don't belong to the Church.

Hi Dear Sister wondering. While there are probably more today attending local assemblies than the seven locations mentioned in Revelation Chapters Two and Three who are not really of Christ, but the Church is still the one body of Christ consisting of all who have ever called upon the name of the Lord (Rom 10:13).

yes, the entire church was the Church, or Body of Christ.

Again to reassure you, the Church was the body of Christ then, and remains so.
There was problems then which remain, and they are those who saw all the miracles performed, heard the preaching and having actually partook of the Holy Spirit's persuasion as He testified of Jesus, but turned back having never received Jesus as their Savior. Therefore there remained no other sacrifice, or way to our Father but by Jesus.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Now those who fell away could not find repentance, or change in their thinking as how to be saved by the grace of God. This repentance wasn't "Lord, I have sinned; forgive me". It was coming to God on His terms and that was by receiving Jesus' sacrifice as their justification instead of works.
There's an old cliché that says "A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still," and that's exactly what those Judaizers did. How could this man Jesus be God? Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw Jesus picking and eating corn on the Sabbath blamed Him of being unlawful.

Having believed on Jesus you are a part of the one body of Christ, and though a Christian can often act like those of the world, they can never return to the world.Jesus put it this way in
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth Me shall come to me (We did); and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Dear Sister wondering. While there are probably more today attending local assemblies than the seven locations mentioned in Revelation Chapters Two and Three who are not really of Christ, but the Church is still the one body of Christ consisting of all who have ever called upon the name of the Lord (Rom 10:13).

Again to reassure you, the Church was the body of Christ then, and remains so.
There was problems then which remain, and they are those who saw all the miracles performed, heard the preaching and having actually partook of the Holy Spirit's persuasion as He testified of Jesus, but turned back having never received Jesus as their Savior. Therefore there remained no other sacrifice, or way to our Father but by Jesus.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Now those who fell away could not find repentance, or change in their thinking as how to be saved by the grace of God. This repentance wasn't "Lord, I have sinned; forgive me". It was coming to God on His terms and that was by receiving Jesus' sacrifice as their justification instead of works.
There's an old cliché that says "A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still," and that's exactly what those Judaizers did. How could this man Jesus be God? Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw Jesus picking and eating corn on the Sabbath blamed Him of being unlawful.

Having believed on Jesus you are a part of the one body of Christ, and though a Christian can often act like those of the world, they can never return to the world.Jesus put it this way in
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth Me shall come to me (We did); and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.

Hi Eugene,
Of course, I could not agree more with everything you say.

What is your opinion on this:

A church who speaks of Jesus, talks about love and how much He loves us and how we're to be loving and good and all those nice things. BUT, they don't teach that one must believe in Jesus in the sense that He sacrificed Himself for us and that this must be accepted and relied upon since we cannot save ourselves.

I come from this type of church and I have a difficult time speaking to friends about God because their concept is so different. Everything depends on what THEY are capable of doing. However, they are doing their best to live as God would want them and, naturally, confession is a big part of their lives.

But wouldn't you say that they are saved? I think so. I don't believe we are to judge people's souls - that is God's job. But I sometimes do hear that they are not saved. How could this be? Could it be possible that if incorrect doctrine is taught, God will hold the innocent responsible for incorrect teaching? I don't think so.

(I do believe that the words Church (capital) and the Body of Christ is the same. Just to clarify).

Wondering