Bible Study Luke 5:33-35

[Eugene]

I don't believe Judas was ever a part of the Body

You are right Sister wondering, Judas was a son of perdition.
Joh 17:12 . . . I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition (Destruction); that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Judas reminds me of
Psa 49:20 Man that is in honour (Judas had a prestigious place with Christ) , and understandeth not (Much like those disciples complaining about the woman with the alabaster box of Mt 26:7? Was Judas one of them?), is like the beasts that perish.

Speaking of the alabaster box I love this song of testimony Judas would never have known. Even Simon Cowell was affected by it and felt it.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...ie=UTF-8#q=america's got talent alabaster box

 

[GodsGrace]

You are right Sister wondering, Judas was a son of perdition.
Joh 17:12 . . . I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition (Destruction); that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Judas reminds me of
Psa 49:20 Man that is in honour (Judas had a prestigious place with Christ) , and understandeth not (Much like those disciples complaining about the woman with the alabaster box of Mt 26:7? Was Judas one of them?), is like the beasts that perish.

Speaking of the alabaster box I love this song of testimony Judas would never have known. Even Simon Cowell was affected by it and felt it.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=america's got talent alabaster box

Eugene
I listened to Lillie. It was beautiful and heartfelt.
It reminded me of the Law and Grace.
The Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Why was the O.C. not able to work and change man?
Why was the N.C. able to cause the change that made it work?

The love one feels for Jesus.

Wondering

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene,
Of course, I could not agree more with everything you say.

What is your opinion on this:

A church who speaks of Jesus, talks about love and how much He loves us and how we're to be loving and good and all those nice things. BUT, they don't teach that one must believe in Jesus in the sense that He sacrificed Himself for us and that this must be accepted and relied upon since we cannot save ourselves.

I come from this type of church and I have a difficult time speaking to friends about God because their concept is so different. Everything depends on what THEY are capable of doing. However, they are doing their best to live as God would want them and, naturally, confession is a big part of their lives.

But wouldn't you say that they are saved? I think so. I don't believe we are to judge people's souls - that is God's job. But I sometimes do hear that they are not saved. How could this be? Could it be possible that if incorrect doctrine is taught, God will hold the innocent responsible for incorrect teaching? I don't think so.

(I do believe that the words Church (capital) and the Body of Christ is the same. Just to clarify).

Wondering

It becomes hard to accept half truths, uniformed teachings, and just man's tradition as to how a Christian assembly should teach about, and teach of our Lord. I came from a system that couldn't even guarantee that one was saved, and yet they had some truth, and performed religious works.
Even there, many were saved even though most couldn't point to the reason why. I like this following scripture to cover such conditions.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
If I had my choice I would rather go a bit further and be encouraged with brethren of like faith, but you may one day be the very one that guides a soul to understand something they're not seeing. When such ones do grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord, they normally move on and away from the Laodicean lukewarm teachings and seek meat of the word.

 

[Eugene]

Why was the O.C. not able to work and change man?
Why was the N.C. able to cause the change that made it work?

In those that had eyes to see there was change, and became examples to, and of our faith (1 Cor 10:11). And then there were things hid that were later revealed such as we read of in:
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

And then 2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost . . .

I think of Elijah here as he thought he was the only righteous one left, and yet God assures him of others.
1 Ki 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
1Ki 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

 

[GodsGrace]

It becomes hard to accept half truths, uniformed teachings, and just man's tradition as to how a Christian assembly should teach about, and teach of our Lord. I came from a system that couldn't even guarantee that one was saved, and yet they had some truth, and performed religious works.
Even there, many were saved even though most couldn't point to the reason why. I like this following scripture to cover such conditions.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
If I had my choice I would rather go a bit further and be encouraged with brethren of like faith, but you may one day be the very one that guides a soul to understand something they're not seeing. When such ones do grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord, they normally move on and away from the Laodicean lukewarm teachings and seek meat of the word.

Eugene,
I could tell you for sure that those that teach know the same truths you and I do. I don't understand why they're not taught. It's always milk. I think there's some fear involved. Fear of losing part of the congregation - when really the opposit is true. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The truth makes us free.

They also know they can be secure in their salvation. But others get treated as chlldren.
Fellowship is important, but sometimes it's not possible. I find these threads to be my fellowship - speaking to those of like mind is comforting to me. Then there is also church going at times and bible study, but always preliminary, and really, not something I would call fellowship.

Thanks for your opinion on my question. I respect it.

Wondering

 

[Jim Parker]

Back then, those that joined the Church, or the Body, really meant it.
Today, we have people in church that don't really mean it.

It is my observation that many churches don't teach their congregations enough to even know what it means to be a Christian. Many are more interested in having a good rock band to lead "worship" than in "equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine". (Eph 4:11-13 NKJV)
I once asked an assistant pastor why there was no longer a "New Christian Class" and he said they wanted "Hassle Free Christianity." What that means is, "We don't want to offend any big check-writers by telling them that dealing with the sin in their lives was something they should consider."

The result is that Europe is about 99% post-Christian and the USA is close behind trying to catch up.

2Ti 4:3-4 (NKJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

We have arrived!

iakov the fool

 

[GodsGrace]

It is my observation that many churches don't teach their congregations enough to even know what it means to be a Christian. Many are more interested in having a good rock band to lead "worship" than in "equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine". (Eph 4:11-13 NKJV)
I once asked an assistant pastor why there was no longer a "New Christian Class" and he said they wanted "Hassle Free Christianity." What that means is, "We don't want to offend any big check-writers by telling them that dealing with the sin in their lives was something they should consider."

The result is that Europe is about 99% post-Christian and the USA is close behind trying to catch up.

2Ti 4:3-4 (NKJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

We have arrived!

iakov the fool

Amen Jim Parker.
You quoted my favorite scripture for the above.

We have indeed arrived...

Wondering

 

[Jim Parker]

The tares would also relate to those in church who are really of the world - the unsaved, just as bad as those out of the church that are unsaved.

They will find themselves worse off as having heard the word of truth and despised it.

 

[GodsGrace]

They will find themselves worse off as having heard the word of truth and despised it.

God will judge us by what we know. We will be responsible only for what we know.

The more we know, the more will be expected of us.
Luke 12:48b

 

[Jim Parker]

God will judge us by what we know. We will be responsible only for what we know.

Actually, we will be judged by what we DO.

Jesus said: (John 5:28-29 NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Paul said: (Ro 6:2-10 NKJV) (God) will render to each one according to his deeds; eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Jesus said: (Mat 25:31-46 NKJV) When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.


Then the King will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.


Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?”


And the King will answer and say to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.”



Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.
Then they also will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?”


Then He will answer them, saying, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.”


And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

The more we know, the more will be expected of us.
Luke 12:48b

True.
Jas 4:17 Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

 

[smaller]

Brother Malachi, that is probably the best reasoning I've heard for the entire Church being the bride; I like that thought, and will certainly consider that to possibly clarify certain prophesies, but I would ask if you believe the entire Church is shown as being judged in Revelation Chapters Two and Three? To me, I see certain parts of the Church having crowns: Smyrna and Philadelphia, and then five portions of the one body of Christ being told to repent or endure consequences. I'll stop here before carrying this forward until I hear your reply.
Thanks and God bless you in Jesus' name.

Jesus said that man will live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4. Reason dictates that every Word spoken to each of the churches in Rev. 2-3 apply to every member of every church, to which the Spirit speaks expressly that to be the case in Rev. 2-3 many times. But hey, who really listens is more of the question ain't it?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"

With most it's the case of "hear" but do not apply. If we do manage to hear, we might even hear that we ourselves are in a contrary to and against the Spirit condition ourselves, that is, in our own flesh. Gal. 5:17. And that our own flesh likes to pick and choose what stuff it personally likes and what it don't and will ignore. I'd also generally say that "who is a legit church member" and who is not is entirely in the eyes of the observer and that some are exceedingly stingy and not gracious whatsoever in their own afflicted sights.

Being in the Spirit means listening and applying every Word, as Jesus said. The flesh will never hear the bad parts of Gods Words, and can not. It isn't possible.

As to fasting? I think the scriptures you cited earlier from Isaiah pretty well hit the fasting nail on the head, meaning it has little if anything to do with "not eating food."

 

[smaller]

I don't believe Judas was ever a part of the Body. He even resented the squandering of money for perfume. And who knows what else. I think he was very secular and never understood Jesus' mission.

Funny. I see the exact opposite.

Judas was 'chosen' to be a disciple, by Jesus no less.

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Let's see? Hmmm? I wonder "who" the devil was? Was it Judas?

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

It would pretty easily appear to ME that Satan was the devil among them, in Judas. Not Judas himself.

Now, just how did that happen I wonder?

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Were the other disciples exempt? Uh, no. Read 1 John 3:8 and we'll see that their own sin is likewise, "of the devil" along with everyone else who has ever lived on this planet except for Jesus.

Will Judas be in heaven? I think a open and shut case is made by Paul in Romans 11:25-32, clearly, that answer being a resounding YES! Because Judas was an Israelite and "all" of Israel shall be saved, even enemies of the Gospel. Says so right there in Romans 11:25-32. So who would not be saved in these equations? Uh, Satan. See Romans 11:8 for the same picture on unbelieving Israel.

It's all in how gracious one is LED to see my friends.

And, in addition, Judas really didn't stand much of a chance. What he did was written about in the Psalm, 41 specifically, long before Judas was the proverbial glint in his fleshly fathers eye. Could Judas have done differently? Uh, no. Because it was not just Judas involved, but SATAN. And God certainly knows what Satan in man will do. IN advance, even.