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Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical values

A matter of cultural and personal preference to put single/multiple holes in ears?

  • Yes, it's only a matter of personal preference

    Votes: 5 83.3%

  • No, it's all about moral values

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • 50/50

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    6
farouk

farouk

Member
This is kind of a continuation of what someone was saying on another thread. The subject of changing customs and people's subjective preferences should always be kept distinct from a change in actual values which drive people away from God's Word. I was suggesting that while I certainly don't want to smoke, the issue of smoking is something that Christians have had different ideas about in history. Hitch was saying that years and years ago he thought that in some places it was even considered wrong to make one hole in an earlobe. (Sounds almost unbelievable, today...)

So what do people think? is the oh so widespread custom of piercing (single/multiple) holes in earlobes an example of subjective cultural preferences? because in some areas Fundamental Christians seem to want to make culturally subjective matters of personal preference into value absolutes, if these terms make sense?
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

Religions, including Christianity, have always been convenient places for people with a need to display control over others to find and enjoy that power when they can't find any other part of society that will listen to them. They are small minded, insignificant people who cry like babies when they don't get there way, and blame their failures on everyone else. ("You just don't see it my way because you don't have enough spiritual maturity yet.")
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

Igor said:
Religions, including Christianity, have always been convenient places for people with a need to display control over others to find and enjoy that power when they can't find any other part of society that will listen to them. They are small minded, insignificant people who cry like babkies when they don't get there way and blame their failures on everyone else. ("You just don't see it my way because you don't have enough spiritual maturity yet.")
Click to expand...

I: Well, yes, this is what I think, too. The reality is that some ppl with an authoritarian mindset can grasp hold of something which happens to involve a subjective cultural change in preferences and practices and use it to complain and pressurize ppl. Years ago it might have been one issue. Now it might be another. Whereas, like you suggest, to be spiritually discerning is not a matter of ppl trying to control other ppl's preferences. (Plenty of Godly women who happen to be multipierced are very discerning: often a lot more so than us men are.)
 
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Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

With all due respect, farouk, smoking is not a "subjective" matter. Fashion (e.g. earring is).

Unfortunately the toxic poisons in a cigarrette will poison your body no matter what era and culture you live in. And unless you believe thats its ok in some cultures and times to damage the residence of the Holy Spirit, I hardly see how it is a "subjective" matter.

But there are indeed many things that are subjective. And I would include earings and piercings in that category along with all sorts of fashion stuff. If you want to wear your pants half way down your behind, be my guest - I have no argument that this is sin.

I can't stand disco music. Is it sin? Of course not (I would say).
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

some music(the dances with it are sinful) one cant help but lust with some of the songs that are danced to by the ladies at the local club.
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

Guys, I would hasten to add that the comment about smoking was qualified by the phrase 'in history'. In the past the health aspects of smoking were not understood very well, and the fact that before the American Civil War it was very widespread for women to smoke pipes after attending a church service would - to me - indicated that it would have been perceived as a cultural thing.

I'm not saying that everything that might in the past have been perceived as cultural is at the same level as what might be perceived as cultural in later years.

But it seems to me that as an example of changing and developing customs, the very widespread practice of putting multiple holes in ears would be just an instance of something to do with culture and subjective personal preference, and not to do with right and wrong (however some fundamentalists might have viewed it years and years ago).

(Are ppl going to vote in the poll?)
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

farouk said:
In the past the health aspects of smoking were not understood very well, and the fact that before the American Civil War it was very widespread for women to smoke pipes after attending a church service would - to me - indicated that it would have been perceived as a cultural thing.
Click to expand...
I certainly agree that the health problems were not known. If we did not know smoking is so unhealthy, I would not conclude that its sin.
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

I remember the days when a piercing meant a person was a heathen or Catholic! Good grief the church roof would fall in if a guy had one.....

Lots of stuff happened around camp meeting time My first memory of earrings was about 1950 the lady was OLD! A very old American Indian women. She was short kinda round wore lots of silver.... Her belt, bracelet, necklace, and her earrings! O those ears... seems i remember her ears being stretch to her shoulders... carrying the load of silver laced with turquoise



I like a single EAR piercing. Well one in each ear,,,,

Change in culture JUST for the sake of change is a fad. Fads come and go heavy piercings will stay. Some folks like 'em
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

none for me. i did have my right ear pierced once. eons ago when clinton was president.
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

reba said:
I remember the days when a piercing meant a person was a heathen or Catholic! Good grief the church roof would fall in if a guy had one.....

Lots of stuff happened around camp meeting time My first memory of earrings was about 1950 the lady was OLD! A very old American Indian women. She was short kinda round wore lots of silver.... Her belt, bracelet, necklace, and her earrings! O those ears... seems i remember her ears being stretch to her shoulders... carrying the load of silver laced with turquoise



I like a single EAR piercing. Well one in each ear,,,,

Change in culture JUST for the sake of change is a fad. Fads come and go heavy piercings will stay. Some folks like 'em
Click to expand...

reba:

So you like it.... :)

Just one in each ear...?
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

NO gauges
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

Even one piercing is a sin.

Just ask any Pentecostal over 60.
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

"If we did not know smoking is so unhealthy, I would not conclude that its sin."

The problem with smoking isn't really a Health issue at all. It's a FIRST COMMANDMENT issue. Thou shall have NO OTHER Gods before the ONE God.

Addictions are "gods" that addicts serve with a dedication, and a single-minded commitment that's frightening.

I haven't smoked for 44 years, but I'm STILL a "smoker" that just didn't light up - today.
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

reba said:
NO gauges
Click to expand...

Ms r:

Well, it's usually teeny boppers (and twenties?) that seem attracted to gauging.

I guess a single (tiny) hole in each ear would be regarded as benign and traditional.

But, then, the double piercing in each earlobe has been around for so long that lots of over-60s have them, too, I guess.

Now even doubles are pretty benign, too.

(But what do I know. Make sense?)
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

Hitch said:
Even one piercing is a sin.

Just ask any Pentecostal over 60.
Click to expand...

Hitch:

Are you speaking ironically?

All those little old ladies in church with their chunky bits of jewelry bobbing up and down on each side of their face... :)
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

farouk said:
Hitch:

Are you speaking ironically?

All those little old ladies in church with their chunky bits of jewelry bobbing up and down on each side of their face... :)
Click to expand...
Not if its the clip on kind, and they refrain from open toed shoes.
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

Hitch said:
Not if its the clip on kind,...
Click to expand...

H:

I think most ppl would tell you that clip ons hurt more than the pierced variety.... :)

(This is why doing the earlobes with the needle/gun is so popular...)
 
Re: Making holes ? example of change in subjective customs, not change in Biblical va

reba said:
I like a single EAR piercing. Well one in each ear
.. heavy piercings will stay. Some folks like 'em
Click to expand...

reba:

You prefer one in each ear, but have you gotten used to, and do you kind of like, too, the heavy piercings?
that you recognize are here to stay.

God bless.
 
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