[_ Old Earth _] Making up history and calling them facts

[AHIMSA]

When I say the Muslim calender, i am saying that literally Muslims divided history into half for them. Ancient history is divided into BC and Ad because those who initially began to study ancient history were in the West. As I explained:

"However, since the Western world has been the dominant economic power for hundreds of years, it has been benefical for the rest of the world to adopt our calender."

I am not speaking of a 12 month calender.

 

[armed2010]

LoL

Heidi,

Only the Christian West divided the world into AD and BC, this was by no means a world wide division. For example, the Muslim Empire began its calender according the night when Muhammad fled Mecca to Medina. Hinduism defines this age as the Kali Yuga age, which commenced with the arrival of Lord Krishna as depicted in the Gita. There are countless other nations that have had different calanders. Ever heard of the Chinese New? However, since the Western world has been the dominant economic power for hundreds of years, it has been benefical for the rest of the world to adopt our calender.

I'm not talking about yearly calendars. I'm talking about history. B.C. and A.D. are universal ways of dating ancient history, which most of the world does, even Muslims. Genesis prophesied that time will be marked by the sun, moon, stars, and spiritual landmarks which it is to this day in all cultures.

Carico, he just explained why B.C. and A.D. were adopted. Yearly or Historically, it just makes life easier to go with the calander of the dominant power and collaborate with them and their data instead of roughing it out and trying to convert dates from one format to another all the time.

 

[Heidi]

When I say the Muslim calender, i am saying that literally Muslims divided history into half for them. Ancient history is divided into BC and Ad because those who initially began to study ancient history were in the West. As I explained:

"However, since the Western world has been the dominant economic power for hundreds of years, it has been benefical for the rest of the world to adopt our calender."

I am not speaking of a 12 month calender.

And everybody accepted it until this generation. Homosexual marriages are being more accepted by the world, over 50% Europe's churches are being abandoned for the new Age movement, childrend are becoming increasingly disobedient to their parent, Christmas is going out of the picure, and people only curse Christ and our Father in heaven. Jesus is right on with his prophesies. Pretty good track record for being an imaginary guy.

 

[armed2010]

When I say the Muslim calender, i am saying that literally Muslims divided history into half for them. Ancient history is divided into BC and Ad because those who initially began to study ancient history were in the West. As I explained:

"However, since the Western world has been the dominant economic power for hundreds of years, it has been benefical for the rest of the world to adopt our calender."

I am not speaking of a 12 month calender.

And everybody accepted it until this generation. Homosexual marriages are being more accepted by the world, over 50% Europe's churches are being abandoned for the new Age movement, childrend are becoming increasingly disobedient to their parent, Christmas is going out of the picure, and people only curse Christ and our Father in heaven. Jesus is right on with his prophesies. Pretty good track record for being an imaginary guy.

Im confused. How did you go from discussing a calander to homosexual marriage?

 

[pfilmtech]

When I say the Muslim calender, i am saying that literally Muslims divided history into half for them. Ancient history is divided into BC and Ad because those who initially began to study ancient history were in the West. As I explained:

"However, since the Western world has been the dominant economic power for hundreds of years, it has been benefical for the rest of the world to adopt our calender."

I am not speaking of a 12 month calender.

And everybody accepted it until this generation. Homosexual marriages are being more accepted by the world, over 50% Europe's churches are being abandoned for the new Age movement, childrend are becoming increasingly disobedient to their parent, Christmas is going out of the picure, and people only curse Christ and our Father in heaven. Jesus is right on with his prophesies. Pretty good track record for being an imaginary guy.

I love it when people preach apocolypse. It's amusing because every generation since the beginning of time seems to think they're living in the "End Times"

Heck the apostles supposedly beleived that Christ was going to return within thier lifetimes based off of this citation.

Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

 

[reznwerks]

guessing

Some of the books of the Bible like Revelation were likely written 50 years after thier attributed authors were dead.

All of the books in the New Testament except for Revelations was written before 50 A.D. Revelations was written in 96A.D. at latest.
You are guessing and hoping at best since we don't have the originals.


Christ's words were written by one man? There were 4 genealogies.
The 4 genealogies conflict. Read them.

Why don't you examine the Bible first. And at the part with the resurrection of Christ, the apostle Paul makes the statement, "If you want, go and ask the eyewitnesses themselves, today."
You are using Paul? Paul never met Jesus.

That's a very strong statement for a lie, since a few minutes with a supposed eyewitness would undermine the whole Christian faith which was the goal of the local Jewish and Roman authorities.
Did you ever consider Paul was bluffing? It was a hollow challenge. Eyewitnesses could not be found so therefore the claims cannot be disputed. It's clever but it worked.

"Had not the empty tomb been an established fact, the Christian faith would not have endured for a single day, for a single hour."
The empty tomb is not an established fact. Outside the bible the trial, resurection, etc are nowhere talked about or recorded.

 

[Heidi]

So for what rational reason would Paul and all the other disciples die for something they knew was a lie? :o What could they possibly gain from deliberately passing along information about a man they knew didn't exist? :o This wouod be more irrational than anything in the bible and of course, you again have zero proof of it. It all comes from your imagination just like all the beliefs you've endorsed here. Your imagination is vivid but cannot be backed up by any sources whatsoever. Sorry. :wink:

 

[Frost Giant]

How do we even know Paul and the apostles even existed?

 

[WillyGilligan]

So for what rational reason would Paul and all the other disciples die for something they knew was a lie? :o What could they possibly gain from deliberately passing along information about a man they knew didn't exist? :o This wouod be more irrational than anything in the bible and of course, you again have zero proof of it. It all comes from your imagination just like all the beliefs you've endorsed here. Your imagination is vivid but cannot be backed up by any sources whatsoever. Sorry. :wink:

Several possibilities come to mind. Christ existed, but the miracles were exaggerated being the first on the list. Proving that Christ existed, or that the placenames used in the Bible correlate to real places only proves that the writers of Scripture used real people and places. It's the supernatural aspects that are hard to prove, but which are necessary to prove. If I claim that there is an invisible tiger in your room, it's not on you to disprove my stealthy carnivore's existance, but rather it's my job to prove that it does. I look around today and see no burning bushes, no parting of the waters, and everyone who claims to speak with God seems to turn out being some kind of crook or pervert. (See the televangelist scandals, Jonestown, Waco....) So claiming that at some point these miraculous things did happen requires a good amount of proof or it will not be believed.

 

[Heidi]

How do we even know Paul and the apostles even existed?

We don't. All of history is made up because we have to rely on eye-witnesses for all historical events. So you can make up your own history. I prefer to believe eye-wtinesses over people who lived thousands of years after they did and claim they were wrong, particularly when they have zero proof that they know better than the eye-witnesses. You can claim anything you want without evidence, like people who like to play God do.

 

[armed2010]

How do we even know Paul and the apostles even existed?

We don't. All of history is made up because we have to rely on eye-witnesses for all historical events. So you can make up your own history. I prefer to believe eye-wtinesses over people who lived thousands of years after they did and claim they were wrong, particularly when they have zero proof that they know better than the eye-witnesses. You can claim anything you want without evidence, like people who like to play God do.

Which authors of the Bible were eyewitnesses, and what did they witness?

 

[pfilmtech]

Thing that bugs me is the apostles were average guys most of who probably didn't even know how to read or write.

 

[Frost Giant]

We don't. All of history is made up because we have to rely on eye-witnesses for all historical events. So you can make up your own history. I prefer to believe eye-wtinesses over people who lived thousands of years after they did and claim they were wrong, particularly when they have zero proof that they know better than the eye-witnesses. You can claim anything you want without evidence, like people who like to play God do.

The Bible claims things happened that are physically impossible. Now, this wouldn't be much of a problem if it were corroborated sufficiently. However it isn't, this raises quite a red flag.

 

[reznwerks]

power

So for what rational reason would Paul and all the other disciples die for something they knew was a lie?
Could be for power and prestige. These are highly motivational factors. Secondly we know nothing about the apostles outside the bible either. Did they die? We don't even know if they were real? Just like Jesus outside the bible you can find no first hand evidence of the apostles.

:o What could they possibly gain from deliberately passing along information about a man they knew didn't exist?
Power and prestige. You have also overlooked the possibility they were duped as well and did not know that what they professed may not have been true. Dying for what one believes is nothing new. People die everday for things that are not true. Look at 9/11. They not only died believeing they were right but their prayers were answered in the affirmative. God granted them their petition. What does that say about God? Whose God is more powerful and does he play both sides?

:o This wouod be more irrational than anything in the bible and of course, you again have zero proof of it.
I don't think you have thought it out. The church loves power and money. If Christianity were just a lifestyle why the need to be organized and collect money. Why not just teach the so called mysteries out of the goodness of ones heart? If you went to class you would see that organized religion is no different than politics. In fact it's worse than politics. Organized religion forces you to think a certain way, believe a certain way and by it's power and influence intimidates people into accepting it's doctrines. If there is a God he is open to one and all regardless of what church or no church he belongs to.

It all comes from your imagination just like all the beliefs you've endorsed here. Your imagination is vivid but cannot be backed up by any sources whatsoever. Sorry. :wink:
I am not making any claims of fact , you are. It is up to you to prove your point. If you cannot I am afraid it is you that suffers from an exagerated imagination.

 

[reznwerks]

yet

Thing that bugs me is the apostles were average guys most of who probably didn't even know how to read or write.

Yet they didn't work but had enough money to need a treasurer. (Judas) It's nice work if you can get it.

 

[Heidi]

Thing that bugs me is the apostles were average guys most of who probably didn't even know how to read or write.

How do you know? :evil: Luke was a scribe who wrote down Paul's words and we still have Paul's original letters today. So who are you to question that? Where's your proof? Of, I forgot. You don't use proof for your beliefs. Your beliefs exist only in your imagination. Saying that the apostles couldn't read or write is definitely making up history and calling them facts. :wink:

 

[armed2010]

Thing that bugs me is the apostles were average guys most of who probably didn't even know how to read or write.

How do you know? :evil: Luke was a scribe who wrote down Paul's words and we still have Paul's original letters today. So who are you to question that? Where's your proof? Of, I forgot. You don't use proof for your beliefs. Your beliefs exist only in your imagination. Saying that the apostles couldn't read or write is definitely making up history and calling them facts. :wink:

How do you know that Poseidon doesn't exist? Homer wrote down the story of how Odyssius fought in the Trojan War and won it by hiding himself and other warriors in a wooden horse and being rolled through the gates of Troy. Then he tried sailing home but was tormented and blown off course by Poseidon. Are you calling Homer a liar? That is libel Carico.

 

[Frost Giant]

How do we even know Paul and the apostles even existed?

We don't. All of history is made up because we have to rely on eye-witnesses for all historical events. So you can make up your own history. I prefer to believe eye-wtinesses over people who lived thousands of years after they did and claim they were wrong, particularly when they have zero proof that they know better than the eye-witnesses. You can claim anything you want without evidence, like people who like to play God do.

Circular logic. How do we know they were eyewitnesses? Because the Bible is true. How do we know it's true? Because it has eyewitnesses. Try again plz.

 

[Heidi]

Thing that bugs me is the apostles were average guys most of who probably didn't even know how to read or write.

How do you know? :evil: Luke was a scribe who wrote down Paul's words and we still have Paul's original letters today. So who are you to question that? Where's your proof? Of, I forgot. You don't use proof for your beliefs. Your beliefs exist only in your imagination. Saying that the apostles couldn't read or write is definitely making up history and calling them facts. :wink:

How do you know that Poseidon doesn't exist? Homer wrote down the story of how Odyssius fought in the Trojan War and won it by hiding himself and other warriors in a wooden horse and being rolled through the gates of Troy. Then he tried sailing home but was tormented and blown off course by Poseidon. Are you calling Homer a liar? That is libel Carico.

And where is there evidence that Poseidon ever lived? :o The people who believed in Poseidon never claimed that anyone ever saw him. So I'm simply agreeing with those people. :wink: Therefore your analogoy doesn't fit. Only the analogies of people who were documented to have existed and actual words that we have from the person are correlations to the analogy that Christ lived. So your argument is not only weak, but desperate, my friend.

 

[armed2010]

Carico, what are you talking about? Odysseus saw Poseidons son! Heck, he stabbed his eye out. And then his son called to Poseidon for help and the seas became rough and blew Odysseus offcourse. And how do you think they made the statues of Poseidon? Ofcourse they saw him.

Heck, if you want another example, they saw and met with Circe on her Island. This is all claimed in the Iliad, on the eyewitness testimony of Odyssius as Homer has written. Are you calling Homer a liar?