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Bible Study Mark 13

Angel

Member
In this chapter Jesus speaks of the end of all.
I have always wondered what verse 30 means:

"Surely I say to you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place."

Does anyone have insight to this verse?
 
Angel I think the generation here is the one which will experience the tribulation period prior to Jesus return.

Mat 24:29-30 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
Angel I think the generation here is the one which will experience the tribulation period prior to Jesus return.

Mat 24:29-30 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


I agree. "This generation" is referencing those who are witnessing the signs.

Mark 13
29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors!
30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
.
 
In this chapter Jesus speaks of the end of all.
I have always wondered what verse 30 means:

"Surely I say to you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place."

Does anyone have insight to this verse?

These two threads cover this topic very well. You will find discussion for and against the 70 AD view of Mark 13, Luke 21, Matthew 23-24
There are two threads because the first thread got so long it had to be continued in a second thread.
Your question is not an easy quick to answer question and one that has at least 2 if not 3 views.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/abomination-of-desolation-in-70ad.48199/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...omination-of-desolation-in-70ad-part-2.48840/

Blessings to you
 
In this chapter Jesus speaks of the end of all.
I have always wondered what verse 30 means:
"Surely I say to you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place."
Does anyone have insight to this verse?

btw, realize that "this generation" doesn't necessarily mean "(the whole multitude of people living at that one time)" .

it may, or may not.... (those 2 threads probably get around to "may" or "may not" , and more)

but just realizing that it doesn't mean what it looks like in english helps a lot. (we don't have to fit what we think we know to what we think it says).

for me, a lot of various Scripture has meanings that are not necessarily what it says at first, second or even third glance --- english being one BIG factor in not translating the meaning(in many places) along with the words.
thankfully, that's not important. that's just a fact we learn as we grow in Him.
He is more than able and capable to teach us.
He is important.
He is supremely faithful and extremely important (our lives depend on Him, every day!).
He will Truthfully let us know the Truth about all things, as He desires, and as we seek Him.

Above all else, seek Him. He will never let anyone down the way men always do. He will never make a mistake.
 
In this chapter Jesus speaks of the end of all.
I have always wondered what verse 30 means:

"Surely I say to you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place."

Does anyone have insight to this verse?

There are a few differing views on this. Some have applied it to the current generation in which they/we live, or some generation to come, in reference to the end times, the coming of Christ. However, the typical reformed biblical scholar view sees it in reference to the physical destruction of the temple.

We know the temple was destroyed in about 70AD. We also can know that Christ was crucified in about 33 AD, (Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea from 26-36 AD) So this talk that Jesus is having as recorded in Mark 13 is taking placed about 33 AD. So, Jesus is making a prophetic statement about what will happen in 37-40 years.

Chapter 13 starts of; 13 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!” 2 "Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Later He is asked privately by Peter, James, John and Andrew when will this take place, and what are the signs.......and this is where we find the fork of understanding today, where some apply it one way and others another way.

Jesus lays out the sings for them; .....
“Watch out that no one deceives you. 6 Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many. 7 When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

12 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 17 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

24 “But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.


The way I think you should study this is from all the views. Ask yourself whats a fair and reasonable way to view this? If we view it as the times in which Christ lived, then we need to reconcile all these signs within that generation. For most of it, that's not much of a problem; wars and rumors of wars, brother will betray brother and so on. We can apply that and other things to the 40 years leading up to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, BUT...the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give it's light, the stars will fall from the sky? if we are going to apply that to that generation, then how do we reconcile these events? what does Jesus mean? could he be talking about something to happen later? That is, after 70AD? Something still ahead? Yes, He could be making a duel prophetic statement here.

So, I'd suggest you take what you do know, what you CAN know, and focus on that first. Then take what you don't know and what you can't know and reconcile that to the other.

CAUTION: It can be easy to go off the rails with this. In my opinion many have. That is why I'm suggesting to first stick with what you can know and what you do know. Like the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. We know this took place. We can know this. We know from historical records, from archeological record, there are eye witness accounts recorded. DO NOT make up or ASSUME what you don't know or CAN'T know. Instead leave that to be reconciled later, or apply several reasonable possibilities, and leave it be. otherwise, if you assume or make solid explanations on what you can't know, then it will simply be your own word.

Right now we have many people saying what is fact on what they can't know, namely the coming of Jesus Christ within this generation. They interpret scripture with the bible in one hand and the newspaper of the world in the other hand. They tie what they read in the news to the bible, and make all these predictions that so far everyone of them have been dead wrong. Some of these people may have been sincere, but it's also safe to assume some are purposely deceiving many for their own gain.
John Hagee's blood moons book is an example of one that comes to mind.

So, while I can't say much on the sign seekers of the end times, I can drop a few other resources on you for the reformed view in relation this text you're wondering about. You can read some of the views I agree with at these links. Hope this helps. Blessed study to you.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/keywords/end-times/

http://www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_query=end times&search.x=0&search.y=0

Here is another one, I sort of skimmed it. It's a little harsh but straightforward.
http://www.bible.ca/pre-mt24-this-generation.htm
 
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The word translated as "generation" is the Greek word "genea", which can also refer to a nation or people group. In Philippians 2:15 it is translated as "nation". I believe that Jesus is saying that the Jewish people will not be wiped out before all of this happens. Considering that people had already tried that a number of times and would again shortly, I think that would be a reasonable way to understand him.

The TOG​
 
There are a few differing views on this. Some have applied it to the current generation in which they/we live, or some generation to come, in reference to the end times, the coming of Christ. However, the typical reformed biblical scholar view sees it in reference to the physical destruction of the temple.

We know the temple was destroyed in about 70AD. We also can know that Christ was crucified in about 33 AD, (Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea from 26-36 AD) So this talk that Jesus is having as recorded in Mark 13 is taking placed about 33 AD. So, Jesus is making a prophetic statement about what will happen in 37-40 years.

Chapter 13 starts of; 13 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!” 2 "Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Later He is asked privately by Peter, James, John and Andrew when will this take place, and what are the signs.......and this is where we find the fork of understanding today, where some apply it one way and others another way.

Jesus lays out the sings for them; .....
“Watch out that no one deceives you. 6 Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many. 7 When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

12 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 17 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

24 “But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.


The way I think you should study this is from all the views. Ask yourself whats a fair and reasonable way to view this? If we view it as the times in which Christ lived, then we need to reconcile all these signs within that generation. For most of it, that's not much of a problem; wars and rumors of wars, brother will betray brother and so on. We can apply that and other things to the 40 years leading up to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, BUT...the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give it's light, the stars will fall from the sky? if we are going to apply that to that generation, then how do we reconcile these events? what does Jesus mean? could he be talking about something to happen later? That is, after 70AD? Something still ahead? Yes, He could be making a duel prophetic statement here.

So, I'd suggest you take what you do know, what you CAN know, and focus on that first. Then take what you don't know and what you can't know and reconcile that to the other.

CAUTION: It can be easy to go off the rails with this. In my opinion many have. That is why I'm suggesting to first stick with what you can know and what you do know. Like the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. We know this took place. We can know this. We know from historical records, from archeological record, there are eye witness accounts recorded. DO NOT make up or ASSUME what you don't know or CAN'T know. Instead leave that to be reconciled later, or apply several reasonable possibilities, and leave it be. otherwise, if you assume or make solid explanations on what you can't know, then it will simply be your own word.

Right now we have many people saying what is fact on what they can't know, namely the coming of Jesus Christ within this generation. They interpret scripture with the bible in one hand and the newspaper of the world in the other hand. They tie what they read in the news to the bible, and make all these predictions that so far everyone of them have been dead wrong. Some of these people may have been sincere, but it's also safe to assume some are purposely deceiving many for their own gain.
John Hagee's blood moons book is an example of one that comes to mind.

So, while I can't say much on the sign seekers of the end times, I can drop a few other resources on you for the reformed view in relation this text you're wondering about. You can read some of the views I agree with at these links. Hope this helps. Blessed study to you.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/keywords/end-times/

http://www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_query=end times&search.x=0&search.y=0

Here is another one, I sort of skimmed it. It's a little harsh but straightforward.
http://www.bible.ca/pre-mt24-this-generation.htm

Danus, you said a mouth full and I completely agree. That is what I attempted to do when I was learning all this. Thank you for this post.
 
In this chapter Jesus speaks of the end of all.
I have always wondered what verse 30 means:
"Surely I say to you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at that one time) positively will not perish or pass away before all these things take place."
Does anyone have insight to this verse?
Don't really get it- but thanks...
Sorry

no worries.
Simply,
for us living today, it means that we , you and i and all others, whoever takes a stand in the Name of Yeshua,
will suffer many things that Yeshua foretells in this chapter, including
sons and daughters will turn over their parents to be put to death. and parents their children.
neighbors will turn one another in to be put to death.
fakes will be everywhere tricking people, with false credentials even fooling the ones who think themselves 'smart'. (educated)
and the whole world will be/ is afraid because of wars and earthquakes and so on.
 
Don't really get it- but thanks...
Sorry
I hope you've gain some insight, but I believe in keeping the cookie jar down low, so the younger ones can reach them.

As you can see, there are some different approaches to these verses. We all might think on them a little differently, and that's OK for the most part.

I see these verses as more of a historical narrative infused with prophecy that has occurred within a few years after Jesus said these things, with the possibility of some future prophetic references that we have yet to fully know. So, I leave that open. I'm personally not looking for the moon to turn red or the stars to fall from the sky, but I'm OK with that taking place later, or it being some metaphorical reference to something that did occur during the destruction of the temple. Others see it as leaning more to the end times yet to come. Either way it's nonessential to having faith. Arguments can be made either way. Is Christ speaking of a generation, as in 40 or so years, or could He be speaking of a group of people over time as a generation? The answer can be "yes" to both. Knowing the answer does not bring a person to Christ. It's not essential to ones salvation in this sense.

What is your view on Mark 13? How do you see it? What are you unsure of, or is there a view expressed so far that you find difficult to fully understand? Keep in mind, it's OK to have a different view, or express what you think. It's a bible study section. We are studying together.

You asked for insight. When it comes to some things in the bible, insight may very depending on who you ask, but its still insight. Take it all in and try to get a feel for all of it. Then let scripture interpret scripture and decide for yourself.
 
Danus, you said a mouth full and I completely agree. That is what I attempted to do when I was learning all this. Thank you for this post.

Christian eschatology can be a tough area for me to express. I'm more of a preterits, theologically, so that's my approach, and unfortunately it's takes more time I think to roll that out LOL.
 
We'll Danus,
I believe from the Scriptures that we are in the birth pangs of the end times. Jesus is specific, and all that he said is happening now. (Earthquakes, famine, wars)
I just wonder.. I've looked at it before as a 40 year generation... And this is way out there, but I've Wondered that maybe even though they are physically eternal, so that they may live until the end?
 
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We'll Danus,
I believe from the Scriptures that we are in the birth pangs of the end times. Jesus is specific, and all that he said is happening now. (Earthquakes, famine, wars)
I just wonder.. I've looked at it before as a 40 year generation... And this is way out there, but I've Wondered that maybe even thought they are physically eternal, so that they may live until the end?

Mark 13
30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

The generation that Jesus is talking about is the generation that is witnessing these signs. If we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we were living in the end times and witnessing the signs that Jesus spoke of, we would be that generation.
.
 
If i wanted patients i would have been a doctor... :missyou

Maybe patients is a good word He does want us to trust Him .. I believe the word trust in today language does not do justice to the older use.. Trust Him as baby has to trust his parents for everything...
 
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