Matthew 19:12 - "Eunuches from the womb"?

[precepts]

I recently came across these verses, and was puzzled. I have never heard of anyone being born without a sexual nature. Maybe someone can explain or comprehend what is being said here. :laughing:

Mat 19:1 And it came to pass, [that] when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;
Mat 19:2 And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

After years of hearing these words, it finally dawned on me what fornication is. Fornicaion is not sex outside of marriage as some would think. If that was the case then the woman would be committing adultery. Fornication is the worshipping of others gods. A man can only put away (divorce) his wife if she worships other gods. The punishment for adultery was death, not divorce!


Here's another interesting point!

Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry.

I honestly don't believe any red blooded man would make such a statement, but the saga continues!

Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, All [men] cannot receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given.
Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].

ANYONE?

 

[felix]

I recently came across these verses, and was puzzled. I have never heard of anyone being born without a sexual nature. Maybe someone can explain or comprehend what is being said here. :laughing:

Anorchia

After years of hearing these words, it finally dawned on me what fornication is. Fornicaion is not sex outside of marriage as some would think. If that was the case then the woman would be committing adultery. Fornication is the worshipping of others gods. A man can only put away (divorce) his wife if she worships other gods. The punishment for adultery was death, not divorce!

A man doesn't need to put away his wife if she worships other gods as said in 1Cor 7:12.

A wife sleeping with another man in secret (or a husband sleeping with another wife) is adultery but the same spouse sleeping with all in exchange with or without money is fornication or prostitution.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...it finally dawned on me what fornication is. Fornicaion is not sex outside of marriage as some would think.

Actually, it does mean that. Paul tells the Corinthians that a man and a woman should have a spouse for sexual purposes to avoid fornication:

" 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
(1 Cor. 7:2-3 KJV)

If that was the case then the woman would be committing adultery. Fornication is the worshipping of others gods. A man can only put away (divorce) his wife if she worships other gods. The punishment for adultery was death, not divorce!

Fornication is symbolic of the unfaithfulness of Idol worship. If fornication did not mean adultery (sex with someone besides the one you're supposed to have sex with exclusively) it would have no meaning as a symbol for being unfaithful to God by worshiping other 'gods'.

And the logic concerning the punishment for adultery breaks down when you consider that the punishment for idolatry is also death:

" 2 “If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, 3 and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, 4 and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death." (Deuteronomy 17: NASB)

Here's another interesting point!
I honestly don't believe any red blooded man would make such a statement, but the saga continues!

A spiritual man would.

...but then again a spiritual man could accept this truth and marry anyway. Hmm




What I find interesting in the passage is Jesus did not mention the case where a man is made a eunuch by his wife, if you know what I mean.

 

[precepts]

Anorchia



A man doesn't need to put away his wife if she worships other gods as said in 1Cor 7:12.

1cor 7:12 is about an unbelieving wife not a wife that worships other gods! Get the facts right!

[A wife sleeping with another man in secret (or a husband sleeping with another wife) is adultery but the same spouse sleeping with all in exchange with or without money is fornication or prostitution.

The context is married couples and fornication. When it comes to prostitution it stil would be adultery because marriage is not defined by paper, but by losing one's virginity. So, it's considered adultery. The prostitute is committing adultery!

 

[precepts]

Actually, it does mean that. Paul tells the Corinthians that a man and a woman should have a spouse for sexual purposes to avoid fornication:

True, but in the context of a married couple, what does it mean? What does it mean when a married woman commits fornication? It can't be adultery because adultery is punishable by death, not divorce.

" 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

Could it be the lust of the flesh, as in having two masters, or defilement?

Fornication is symbolic of the unfaithfulness of Idol worship. If fornication did not mean adultery (sex with someone besides the one you're supposed to have sex with exclusively) it would have no meaning as a symbol for being unfaithful to God by worshiping other 'gods'.

I say the oposite, having sex with prostitutes could be classified as fornicating with other gods because prostitution is a form of pagan worship, pornecea! But in the context of a married woman, having sex with someone other than her husband, it's adulltery, punishable by death, not divorce. That's my original point!

And the logic concerning the punishment for adultery breaks down when you consider that the punishment for idolatry is also death:

Says who?! Does this mean Samson and Judah were guilty of fornication, punishable by death, for having sex outside of wedlock?

" 2 “If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, 3 and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, 4 and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death." (Deuteronomy 17: NASB)

That's very interesting, especially, since they were many kings that worshipped idols in Israel. This still doesn't define fornication in the context of the married woman since the punishment was separation, unless it's a misprint, or an added text by the enemy.

\

A spiritual man would.

...but then again a spiritual man could accept this truth and marry anyway. Hmm

A spiritual man could what?

What I find interesting in the passage is Jesus did not mention the case where a man is made a eunuch by his wife, if you know what I mean.

I don't get it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

True, but in the context of a married couple, what does it mean? What does it mean when a married woman commits fornication? It can't be adultery because adultery is punishable by death, not divorce.

Then what in God's name is adultery?????

I say the oposite, having sex with prostitutes could be classified as fornicating with other gods because prostitution is a form of pagan worship, pornecea!

ALL sin is fornicating with other gods. But that doesn't mean sleeping with someone outside of your marriage is not called adultery.

But in the context of a married woman, having sex with someone other than her husband, it's adulltery, punishable by death, not divorce. That's my original point!

Okay, and then when he's done putting his wife away in divorce and turning her over to the Sanhedrin for an official judgment of death he can turn himself in to serve his penalty of death for all the times he's committed adultery in his heart looking at other women while he was married (and who were themselves married to other men).

Says who?! Does this mean Samson and Judah were guilty of fornication, punishable by death, for having sex outside of wedlock?

What does the law say?

That's very interesting, especially, since they were many kings that worshipped idols in Israel. This still doesn't define fornication in the context of the married woman since the punishment was separation, unless it's a misprint, or an added text by the enemy.

You are making a very confusing argument.

Adultery is both, fornication, and (like all sin) idolatry (unfaithfulness to God).

A spiritual man could what?

1) Marry a woman knowing full well there's no way out...except she commit adultery, she having been unfaithful to God's command not to do that.

2) Not marry a woman knowing he has full control over sexual temptation.

See? Both can be very spiritual decisions.

I don't get it.

I was being funny (kinda, anyway). Jesus didn't talk about the case where the wife decides her husband is going to be a sexless eunuch. I'm laughing...and crying at the same time. 4

 

[felix]

1cor 7:12 is about an unbelieving wife not a wife that worships other gods! Get the facts right!

An unbeliever is someone who does not believe in the God of the Bible.

The context is married couples and fornication. When it comes to prostitution it stil would be adultery because marriage is not defined by paper, but by losing one's virginity. So, it's considered adultery. The prostitute is committing adultery!

I never denied it.. Of course a prostitute is committing adultery if she is married. Otherwise she is committing fornication and harlotry.

 

[precepts]

Then what in God's name is adultery?????

The text is erroneous. You win.

bL sin is fornicating with other gods.[/b]

Jethro 34:12

but that doesn't mean sleeping with someone outside of your marriage is not called adultery.

Prove it biblically!

Okay, and then when he's done putting his wife away in divorce and turning her over to the Sanhedrin for an official judgment of death he can turn himself in to serve his penalty of death for all the times he's committed adultery in his heart looking at other women while he was married (and who were themselves married to other men).

I guess that's why Christ said who's without sin, cast the first stone.

You are making a very confusing argument.

Adultery is both, fornication, and (like all sin) idolatry (unfaithfulness to God).




1) Marry a woman knowing full well there's no way out...except she commit adultery, she having been unfaithful to God's command not to do that.

2) Not marry a woman knowing he has full control over sexual temptation.

See? Both can be very spiritual decisio

The text is erroneious! A man can, in the eyes of God, divorce his virgin bride wife only for adultery. For any other cause, it's adultery.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Originally Posted by Jethro Bodine
"...sin is fornicating with other gods."

Jethro 34:12

Actually it's here in Colossians 3:5...

"...immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry." (NASB)

When we are fulfilling passions outside of our relationship with God we are committing spiritual adultery. Just as a wife is being unfaithful to her husband when she entertains passions outside of the relationship she has with her husband.

 

[precepts]

Actually it's here in Colossians 3:5...

"...immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry." (NASB)

When we are fulfilling passions outside of our relationship with God we are committing spiritual adultery. Just as a wife is being unfaithful to her husband when she entertains passions outside of the relationship she has with her husband.

It's the worship of other gods that's classified as adultery against God. You're misinterpreting the verse. From my research, idolatry causes one to possess these traits, not that they're a form of Idolatry, but the characteristics of idolaters.

You said sin was fornication against God. Sin is not fornicating against God. If it was then all would be profane.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's the worship of other gods that's classified as adultery against God. You're misinterpreting the verse.

Sinning IS choosing to worship another god. Paul said the sins he listed are idolatry. What is there to misinterpret?

From my research, idolatry causes one to possess these traits, not that they're a form of Idolatry, but the characteristics of idolaters.

Any sin amounts to the outward service and worship of someone/something other than the One True God.

You said sin was fornication against God. Sin is not fornicating against God. If it was then all would be profane.

Is a person being faithful to God when they sin? Of course not. That's why it's called (spiritual) adultery.

 

[precepts]

Sinning IS choosing to worship another god.

There's no scripture that proves this. This is your assumption. Every biblical reference to adultery against God is the worshipping of other gods.

Paul said the sins he listed are idolatry. What is there to misinterpret?

That's so ironic, Paul's exact words were "amounts to idolatry." Reason being, people who worship idols possess these behaviors, not that these behaviors is spiritual idolatry.

"...immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry." (NASB)
(Your exact quote)

Any sin amounts to the outward service and worship of someone/something other than the One True God.

That would mean Adam and Eve were worshipping the fig tree. Stop adding to scripture. It should be line upon line, precept upon precept. There's no biblical proof for your claims. I could rewrite your statement as Jethro Bodine 21:5!

Is a person being faithful to God when they sin? Of course not. That's why it's called (spiritual) adultery.

Is a person always conscious of sinning? The fall of man is not classified as the worship of another god!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There's no scripture that proves this. This is your assumption. Every biblical reference to adultery against God is the worshipping of other gods.

Yes. Sinning (disobeying God) is how one worships another god. Sinning is worshiping another god.

That's so ironic, Paul's exact words were "amounts to idolatry." Reason being, people who worship idols possess these behaviors, not that these behaviors is spiritual idolatry.

Name a sin which is not obedience to another 'god'.

That would mean Adam and Eve were worshipping the fig tree.

No, not worshiping the tree. Who were they worshiping? Certainly not God. So who then?

Their sinning constitutes the worship of someone other than God.

Is a person always conscious of sinning? The fall of man is not classified as the worship of another god!

It's classified as sin. They broke covenant with God. They obeyed someone other than the true God. That's idol worship. It's mankind's fundamental weakness.

"7 But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant..." (Hosea 6:7 NASB)

 

[precepts]

Yes. Sinning (disobeying God) is how one worships another god. Sinning is worshiping another god.

Jethro 3:12

Name a sin which is not obedience to another 'god'.

Name a sin that is, and to which god.

No, not worshiping the tree. Who were they worshiping? Certainly not God. So who then?

Probably you.

Their sinning constitutes the worship of someone other than God.

Jethro 12;5

It's classified as sin. They broke covenant with God. They obeyed someone other than the true God. That's idol worship. It's mankind's fundamental weakness.

Jethro 23:7

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Name a sin that is...

Jealousy.

...and to which god.

Self.

 

[felix]

No, not worshiping the tree. Who were they worshiping? Certainly not God. So who then?

Their sinning constitutes the worship of someone other than God.




It's classified as sin. They broke covenant with God. They obeyed someone other than the true God. That's idol worship. It's mankind's fundamental weakness.

"7 But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant..." (Hosea 6:7 NASB)

Neither did Adam transgressed any covenant nor did he sin but deceived.

A covenant is an agreement where both parties must agree upon. Father God created the old covenant after the Israelites agreed by saying the blessing and curses if they didn't abide by the covenant. The Son created the new covenant and provides eternal life only to those who agree to this new covenant by believing in Him. There was no covenant given to Adam first.

Next Adam never sinned simply because, he cannot even understand what sin is. He does not know if disobedience is good or evil. He was innocent not knowing good and evil and He was deceived. If what Adam did was indeed sin, then every little innocent child who is worthy to enter kingdom of Heaven are actually terrible sinners. Sin entered the world not because of Adam's disobedience but because of the fruit which he ate that contains "the knowledge of evil".

The NASB translation for Hosea 6:7 is wrong. Even LXXE, a translation which existed when Christ walked on this earth never translated that as Adam. It is the same word in Hebrew to refer Adam or man or mankind. The name Adam is not a proper noun but a common noun.

(Gen 5:2) He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Adam? in the day they were created.
(Gen 6:1) Now it came to pass, when Adam? began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them.

Why didn't NASB use the same word "Adam" in the above verses and for all places where "man" occurs? Because, it makes absolutely no sense. Just like "man" is for English, "Adam" is for Hebrew.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Felix, Felix, Felix...

You need to stop reasoning out the scriptures with your mind and start discerning them with the Spirit.

Are you born again?

 

[felix]

Felix, Felix, Felix...

You need to stop reasoning out the scriptures with your mind and start discerning them with the Spirit.

Are you born again?

Why is this getting personal?

Also, NASB is not scripture but a "translation of scripture". Neither the scriptures were written in English. Nor English rich enough to accommodate the richness in any classical language.

 

[precepts]

Jealousy.



Self.

I was thinking hypocrisy.

 

[precepts]

Neither did Adam transgressed any covenant nor did he sin but deceived.

You wouldn't believe the amount of pastors that say the same thing about Adam's deception. It's the spirit of anti-christ in christianity. They speak evil of dignitaries.

Jud 1:8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

The spirit of anit-christ have no fear in condemning and speaking evil about the prophets and characters in the scriptures.

2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots [they are] and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This is also the doctrine of the Nicolatians! Spots in your feast, and garments is pollution, defilement.

By the way, the "government" in 2Peter 2:10 is not the world government, but Christ's government, which is the body.