Millennial Teaching

[tdidymas]

No. Perhaps this will help:

I thought this guy said he was going to categorize the doctrines in order of importance. I didn't see any of that in the videos under "series." Do I have to read the book for that?

 

[netchaplain]

Yes, but we're informed of the signs of his coming, and we of all people must know. As I mentioned, "no one knows the day or the hour" was a cultural reference of the Feast of Trumpets, which falls on the first day of the seventh Hebrew lunar month, which starts with a new moon. We can know that's in autumn season, but no one can set a date on the calendar since the length of lunar cycle varies, and no one knows exactly which year.

Yes, we can identify when His return is near, Scripture allows the signs-of-the-times!

There are holes with amil.

Yes, Amillennialism is the most corrupted of the theories, considering it doesn't allow for a thousand-year reign of Christ and His Body, the Church at all!

 

[jasonc]

Yes, we can identify when His return is near, Scripture allows the signs-of-the-times!

Yes, Amillennialism is the most corrupted of the theories, considering it doesn't allow for a thousand-year reign of Christ and His Body, the Church at all!

It doesn't ?
In your doctrine of which at one time I held its taught that the gentiles and Jews will earn their salvation

It's also taught that those that are in the millennium
Will not need to follow the mosiac law to know christ and yet oddly say that peshac and the rosh hoshanna ,day of atonement are a memorial

Yet those feasts have priest atoning for their sins and each offering has to be on alter that is cleansed and offerings for each person include a sin offering before any offering of peace and inquiry or worship


Yet teach that is not the church.

When christ speaks of his kingdom it has no end ,at the end of a thousand years implies an end .it's over .

 

[Free]

Yes, Amillennialism is the most corrupted of the theories, considering it doesn't allow for a thousand-year reign of Christ and His Body, the Church at all!

It does, though. They just interpret it as a non-literal 1,000 years in which Christ's reign is spiritual through his Church. In the amill view, we are in the millennium right now. It actually makes a fair bit of sense.

 

[Free]

I thought this guy said he was going to categorize the doctrines in order of importance. I didn't see any of that in the videos under "series." Do I have to read the book for that?

I'm not sure. I haven't gone through all his videos and the one I gave I watched quite some time ago. I know in another video he gave examples for each of the four categories. I did find this in his Triage playlist, which is relevant to this discussion:

He does give a couple of examples of second rank issues (the sacraments and church governance), around 11:30, and I think he would say that views on the millennium are third rank.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Please do some study before making such strong, erroneous claims:

Why would I waste any time to study two strong, erroneous claims that have misled most Christians to this day? Many are given the impression that all prophecies were fulfilled at 70AD, Revelation is ancient history, everything is symbolic, as a result bible prophecies are rarely taught.

Where is evidence that supposed idiom?

I have shown you some relevant verses, you want more, go study New Moon and the feast of trumpets before you dismiss them as irrelevant. Go check out the descriptions of the second coming and see if it’s accompanied with the sounding of trumpet.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It does, though. They just interpret it as a non-literal 1,000 years in which Christ's reign is spiritual through his Church. In the amill view, we are in the millennium right now. It actually makes a fair bit of sense.

That’s clear denial of Christ’s second coming. If we were living in the millennium right now, then Christ had never returned. You can’t have any millennial reign without the second coming because that’s the triggering event of the millennium. That makes zero sense.

 

[Free]

Why would I waste any time to study two strong, erroneous claims that have misled most Christians to this day?

Willful ignorance is not something Christians should be satisfied with. Christians are interested in truth, which requires proper study. It’s all the worse to claim two differing opinions of interpretation of a specific doctrine are heresy and erroneous when one is willfully ignorant. You shouldn’t even be debating this issue.

Many are given the impression that all prophecies were fulfilled at 70AD, Revelation is ancient history, everything is symbolic, as a result bible prophecies are rarely taught.

Full preterism is relevant how?

I have shown you some relevant verses, you want more, go study New Moon and the feast of trumpets before you dismiss them as irrelevant. Go check out the descriptions of the second coming and see if it’s accompanied with the sounding of trumpet.

You gave some random verses which, I assume, are supposed to somehow show there is an idiom. But, they don’t.

It’s also worth noting the double standard that you expect me to “go study,” but you don’t want to, all the while teaching error about other positions you don’t understand.

That’s clear denial of Christ’s second coming. If we were living in the millennium right now, then Christ had never returned. You can’t have any millennial reign without the second coming because that’s the triggering event of the millennium. That makes zero sense.

No, it makes sense. As I clearly stated, Christ’s return is after the millennium. There is absolutely no denial of Christ’s second coming. But, if you don’t want to study, you can stay in your error.

Be careful in being so certain about things which are most often spoken of in figurative language. Too many are too certain about eschatalogical events that really are not that clear at all.

 

[jasonc]

Willful ignorance is not something Christians should be satisfied with. Christians are interested in truth, which requires proper study. It’s all the worse to claim two differing opinions of interpretation of a specific doctrine are heresy and erroneous when one is willfully ignorant. You shouldn’t even be debating this issue.


Full preterism is relevant how?


You gave some random verses which, I assume, are supposed to somehow show there is an idiom. But, they don’t.

It’s also worth noting the double standard that you expect me to “go study,” but you don’t want to, all the while teaching error about other positions you don’t understand.


No, it makes sense. As I clearly stated, Christ’s return is after the millennium. There is absolutely no denial of Christ’s second coming. But, if you don’t want to study, you can stay in your error.

Be careful in being so certain about things which are most often spoken of in figurative language. Too many are too certain about eschatalogical events that really are not that clear at all.

I'm not a full or partial preterust

There are pre trib ,amil.i was pointed to a few commentaries by one .

Frankly I lean amil only because imho the clearest of that .I'm close to post trib . Eschatology isn't so neat to fit in the typical pre mil box .

That ignores that in those versus the Sabbath doesn't end ,yet in the last book the sun and moon aren't needed as the Lord is our light

Which is metaphor for the way we see him plainly . The way the feasts were done and the heavens as shadows aren't needed to remind us of God .His Glory is plain .

 

[jasonc]

Isiah 66

From new Moon new Sabbath

Yet revelation 21 :23 to 24

No need of the sun or moon as the Lord himself will be light .Kings shall see by the light of the city .

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Willful ignorance is not something Christians should be satisfied with. Christians are interested in truth, which requires proper study. It’s all the worse to claim two differing opinions of interpretation of a specific doctrine are heresy and erroneous when one is willfully ignorant. You shouldn’t even be debating this issue.

Proper study is study of truth, not falsehood. It's not just different opinions, but total delusion when you call this chaotic world, of which Satan is the prince of the air, the millennial kingdom.

Full preterism is relevant how?

How is it not relevant since, according to you, we are "already living in the millennium"?

You gave some random verses which, I assume, are supposed to somehow show there is an idiom. But, they don’t.

It’s also worth noting the double standard that you expect me to “go study,” but you don’t want to, all the while teaching error about other positions you don’t understand.

Those are not random verses, you only dismiss them as random. The real double standard is that you expect me to go study heresies, I expect you to study biblical and Hebrew cultural references.

No, it makes sense. As I clearly stated, Christ’s return is after the millennium. There is absolutely no denial of Christ’s second coming. But, if you don’t want to study, you can stay in your error.

As Revelation clearly stated, Christ’s return is BEFORE the millennium, He returns at the end of chapter 19, the saints are resurrected and reign with him for a thousand years at the beginning of chapter 20. What I don't wanna study is your error of changing this order.

Be careful in being so certain about things which are most often spoken of in figurative language. Too many are too certain about eschatalogical events that really are not that clear at all.

It's not clear only because you don't read the OT. Nothing in Revelation is new, it's titled Revelation as a revelation of old mysteries.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Isiah 66

From new Moon new Sabbath

Yet revelation 21 :23 to 24

No need of the sun or moon as the Lord himself will be light .Kings shall see by the light of the city .

You're conflating the millennial kingdom with New Jerusalem, aka new heaven and new earth. The millennial kingdom is still in the first heaven and earth, not the new. Millennial kingdom is the fulfilment of Is. 66, and according to the Lord himself, the first heaven and earth are still there until the kingdom is over in Rev. 20:7.

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Matt. 5:18)
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. (Rev. 21:1)

 

[jasonc]

You're conflating the millennial kingdom with New Jerusalem, aka new heaven and new earth. The millennial kingdom is still in the first heaven and earth, not the new. Millennial kingdom is the fulfilment of Is. 66, and according to the Lord himself, the first heaven and earth are still there until the kingdom is over in Rev. 20:7.

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Matt. 5:18)
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. (Rev. 21:1)

Ah no

That Isiah 66 mentions the dead enemies of Lord and the righteous seeing them in torment

Isiah 66:24


Bible > ERV > Isaiah 66
◄ Isaiah 66 ►
English Revised Version
Heaven is My Throne

1Thus saith the LORD; The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: what manner of house will ye build unto me? and what place shall be my rest?

2For all these things hath mine hand made, and so all these things came to be, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and that trembleth at my word.

3He that killeth an ox is as he that slayeth a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as he that breaketh a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as he that offereth swine's blood; he that burneth frankincense, as he that blesseth an idol: yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations;

4I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did that which was evil in mine eyes, and chose that wherein I delighted not.

5Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word: Your brethren that hate you, that cast you out for my name's sake, have said, Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy; but they shall be ashamed.

6A voice of tumult from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

Rejoice with Jerusalem

7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? shall a nation be brought forth at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I that cause to bring forth shut the womb? saith thy God.

10Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad for her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn over her:

11that ye may suck and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.

12For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream, and ye shall suck thereof; ye shall be borne upon the side, and shall be dandled upon the knees.

13As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

14And ye shall see it, and your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like the tender grass: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and he will have indignation against his enemies.

God's Final Judgments against the Wicked

15For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and his chariots shall be like the whirlwind; to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16For by fire will the LORD plead, and by his sword, with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves to go unto the gardens, behind one in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse; they shall come to an end together, saith the LORD.

18For I know their works and their thoughts: the time cometh, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and shall see my glory. 19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send such as escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the nations. 20And they shall bring all your brethren out of all the nations for an offering unto the LORD, upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring their offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21And of them also will I take for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

English Revised Version, 1885

Section Headings Courtesy BereanBible.com
© 2013, 2014 Used by Permission



Bible Hub
Isaiah 65Jeremiah 1Top of PageTop of Page












That's the end of time not thousand years reign

The casting of the sinners into gehenna is described when ?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Ah no

That Isiah 66 mentions the dead enemies of Lord and the righteous seeing them in torment

So? That's obviously referring to the Lake of Fire.

 

[jasonc]

So? That's obviously referring to the Lake of Fire.

The verses don't imply that .Israel to be saved then enter into the city where all flesh can worship in the mountain and with a long pause of deliverance .

Problems with Premillennialism

Problems with Premillennialism

www.samstorms.org

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The verses don't imply that .Israel to be saved then enter into the city where all flesh can worship in the mountain and with a long pause of deliverance .

How not? You said the enemies will be tormented per Is. 66:24, that's exactly the situation in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Free]

Proper study is study of truth, not falsehood.

That’s an exceptionally poor excuse for intellectual dishonesty. It’s also fallaciously begging the question.

It's not just different opinions, but total delusion when you call this chaotic world, of which Satan is the prince of the air, the millennial kingdom.

That’s because you’re making certain uneducated assumptions about what the text states and about what amillennialism teaches.

How is it not relevant since, according to you, we are "already living in the millennium"?

Study what amillennialists teach, then we’ll talk. You’re also making an assumption about what I believe.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-i-changed-my-mind-about-the-millennium/

https://www.samstorms.org/enjoying-god-blog/post/i-am-an-amillennialist--because-of--revelation-20

Those are not random verses, you only dismiss them as random. The real double standard is that you expect me to go study heresies, I expect you to study biblical and Hebrew cultural references.

Again, you’re basing your whole position and the claim that other positions are heresy on willful ignorance and uneducated assumptions. That’s a ridiculous, and ungodly, position to take.

They are random. Where is the idiom? I asked you for evidence of this idiom, and you have yet to provide any. If it’s an idiom, it will be directly stated either in Scripture or in extra-biblical literature.

As Revelation clearly stated, Christ’s return is BEFORE the millennium, He returns at the end of chapter 19, the saints are resurrected and reign with him for a thousand years at the beginning of chapter 20. What I don't wanna study is your error of changing this order.

Again, you’re making certain assumptions.

It's not clear only because you don't read the OT. Nothing in Revelation is new, it's titled Revelation as a revelation of old mysteries.

No, it’s not nearly as clear as you think. But, that is what happens when one bases their position on assumptions and refuses to educate themselves on other legitimate positions.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That’s an exceptionally poor excuse for intellectual dishonesty. It’s also fallaciously begging the question.

What question? You said Christians are insterested in truth, why would I search truth among falsehood, like searching the living among the dead? I call these positions heresies for what they are, the biggest red flag of any heresy is spiritualizing the text into something else.

That’s because you’re making certain uneducated assumptions about what the text states and about what amillennialism teaches.

Study what amillennialists teach, then we’ll talk. You’re also making an assumption about what I believe.

Why don't you go study premillennialism?

Again, you’re making certain assumptions.

Those are not assumptions, those are biblical facts, Rev. 19:11, 20:4. Saints are reigning with Christ on earth, not in heaven.

No, it’s not nearly as clear as you think. But, that is what happens when one bases their position on assumptions and refuses to educate themselves on other legitimate positions.

Legitimate positions are built upon OT biblical and cultural references with exegetical approach. What you call "educate" is more like indoctrinate or propagandize.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

They are random. Where is the idiom? I asked you for evidence of this idiom, and you have yet to provide any. If it’s an idiom, it will be directly stated either in Scripture or in extra-biblical literature.

One of the seven Moedim of Yahweh (Divine Appointments or Feasts) is called the Yom Teruah. It is also referred to as Rosh Hashanah or the Feast of Trumpets. Of the seven moedim, this one is the only one that doesn’t have an exact starting time. This moed begins only when two witnesses see the edge of the moon and report their sighting to the Sanhedrin. This requirement introduces slight variable time to it’s inception. The Jews celebrate what is supposed to be the first day of the seventh month, Tishri, (Leviticus 23:23-25) over a two-day period because it is “the day no one knows the day or hour.” For this very reason, Yom Teruah was, and still is, referred to as “the moed that no one knows the day or hour of!”

NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR HOUR, A HEBREW IDIOM | FaithWriters

<p align='justify'>No one knows the day or hour has been debated for ages, and many different explanations have been given. Is it a Hebrew idiom, and if so, where did it come from and just what does it mean?</p>

www.faithwriters.com

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That’s because you’re making certain uneducated assumptions about what the text states and about what amillennialism teaches.

Then the Lord himself must've made an "uneducated assumption" since it contradicts the golden calf of your precious teaching that we're "already living in the kingdom."

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” (Jn. 18:36)