Missing link to Abraham?

[unred typo]

How did Abraham know about creation? Where does the Bible give the record of how Abraham came to know about the first part of Genesis, that his great, great, great, great Grandson, Moses, presumably, wrote down? Does Abraham have any connection to Noah in the Bible? Noah was a preacher of righteousness but Abraham was the son of an idolater.

I know the answer, I think, but I was wondering if anyone else ever ferreted it out.
:-D

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Scripture says that he was a prophet....
He is recorded as having conversations with God.

 

[unred typo]

Scripture says that he was a prophet....
He is recorded as having conversations with God.

I never thought he was called a prophet. Where is that found?


Where does it say that God told him about creation?

 

[Oscar3]

I never thought he was called a prophet. Where is that found?


Where does it say that God told him about creation?

Unlike you unread, Abraham, believed God.

 

[unred typo]

Unlike you unread, Abraham, believed God.

I not only believe God, I actually believe what he says. How did Abraham know what God said? Did he have a scroll, a Bible, a letter from Paul? How did he know his father’s gods were not the true God?
:-?

 

[Solo]

Abram (Abraham) was the first one called a Hebrew in the Bible. He was 58 to 60 years old when Noah died. Noah's father Lamech was still alive when Adam died. It would not be far fetched for Adam to speak of creation to Noah's father, Lamech about creation, and then Noah having this information from his father to pass on to Abram.

God is very persistant throughout history in having first hand witnesses passing information along; therefore, the gift of the Holy Spirit being the witness of truth to believers today is very important.

 

[unred typo]

Abram (Abraham) was the first one called a Hebrew in the Bible. He was 58 to 60 years old when Noah died. Noah's father Lamech was still alive when Adam died. It would not be far fetched for Adam to speak of creation to Noah's father, Lamech about creation, and then Noah having this information from his father to pass on to Abram.

God is very persistant throughout history in having first hand witnesses passing information along; therefore, the gift of the Holy Spirit being the witness of truth to believers today is very important.

:smt023 That was pretty good, Solo. That’s pretty much my take on it too. The book of Jasher also has information that fills in the gaps in Genesis, (if you’re interested in learning more than you get in Sunday School.) In fact, if Abram was 58-60 years old when Noah died, he could have even talked with Noah himself. Noah was after all not only a famous preacher of righteousness, but his great ( 5-6 more greats here) grandfather, being he was the eighth generation from Noah.

Since Abraham had knowledge of the one true God before God called him to leave Ur, why is it also not conceivable that Abram was instructed by Noah and Shem himself and that Abram was a follower of the one true God from a young man? Because the Bible leaves out some of the stories in Jasher, we have an incomplete picture of why God chose Abram. The theologies such as Calvinism erupt from an ignorance of the actual facts. God chose Abraham when he was in Ur because he believed in God.

 

[cyberjosh]

Unread those theories may sound nice but it is far more likely that he got any knowledge he had about God and his work with mankind directly from God himself. That's how he first came to the knowledge of Elohim, because Elohim revealed himself to Abram personally and called him out from among the idolatrous country he was in to follow him. The story almost sounds alot like what happened to Paul: God appeared to the person to call him follow after him, and then the person He appeared to goes away from their home into the desert (Paul for 3 years - Abraham was called a "wandering Aramean" (desert nomad)) and follows God. God had personal dealings with Abraham and gave him what knowledge he desired to give him like he did for Paul.

 

[BenJasher]

The Book of Jasher (actually "The upright record") records that Abraham actually lived with Noah and Shem in a cave for a time. It also states that Shem was Melchesidek whom Abraham gave a tenth of all he had to when he returned from the slaughter of the kings.

While many of these stories may be just cute bedtime stories, there is evidence they may not be either. The book of Jasher, and the History of the Wars of The Lord are two books that are mentioned in the Book of Chronicles.

If you created a linear timeline of these people's lives, how long they lived, and how old they were when their children were born, etc, you would be surprized to find that, very easily, Abraham could have known Noah and Shem personally. So who is to say that it didn't happen that way?

The Book of Jasher is a very interesting book.

 

[unred typo]

Unread those theories may sound nice but it is far more likely that he got any knowledge he had about God and his work with mankind directly from God himself. That's how he first came to the knowledge of Elohim, because Elohim revealed himself to Abram personally and called him out from among the idolatrous country he was in to follow him. The story almost sounds alot like what happened to Paul: God appeared to the person to call him follow after him, and then the person He appeared to goes away from their home into the desert (Paul for 3 years - Abraham was called a "wandering Aramean" (desert nomad)) and follows God. God had personal dealings with Abraham and gave him what knowledge he desired to give him like he did for Paul.

That’s a very thoughtful answer if someone only has the Bible to reference. But questions remain. Why did God give all this information directly to Abraham and Abraham failed to mention it in his autobiography? It seems to me that if Abraham got it other than as family history passed down from a child, he would have made it a point to reveal that to the reader, as assurance of the authenticity of his source. Besides, if God so spoke to Abraham personally, who supposedly was an idolater, why doesn’t he speak personally to each of his children today and straighten out all this hate and discontent about who/what he is and how many persons in his nature, if it is so important to their salvation to know this?

Have you ever read the book of Jasher, Cyber?

 

[unred typo]

The Book of Jasher (actually "The upright record") records that Abraham actually lived with Noah and Shem in a cave for a time. It also states that Shem was Melchesidek whom Abraham gave a tenth of all he had to when he returned from the slaughter of the kings.

While many of these stories may be just cute bedtime stories, there is evidence they may not be either. The book of Jasher, and the History of the Wars of The Lord are two books that are mentioned in the Book of Chronicles.

If you created a linear timeline of these people's lives, how long they lived, and how old they were when their children were born, etc, you would be surprized to find that, very easily, Abraham could have known Noah and Shem personally. So who is to say that it didn't happen that way?

The Book of Jasher is a very interesting book.

*BING**BONG*HONK*HONK* Where’s the rubber chicken when you need him? :smt117
Excellent answer! Anyone who had ever studied the book of Jasher would agree. Do you have a link? I believe I do but there are several and some are not so good. This one has other books with it, such as Enoch, that I don’t feel as comfortable with since I used Jasher side by side with Genesis and verified all the records to my own satisfaction.
http://earth-history.com/Pseudepigrapha ... -title.htm

This is just Jasher, which I highly recommend reading:
http://www.nazarene.net/jasher/Book%20of%20Jasher.htm

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I never thought he was called a prophet. Where is that found?


Where does it say that God told him about creation?

Hi unred,

It is kind of a long read to get the point out of this passage, so I highlighted the points in red. It speaks of Abraham, God is talking to Abimelech, and he tells him that Abraham is a prophet.

Gen 20:1 ¶ And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She [is] my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou [art but] a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she [is] a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She [is] my sister? and she, even she herself said, He [is] my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man [his] wife; for he [is] a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore [her] not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that [are] thine.

As far as documentation that Abraham knew details about creation...
It might help if you could give chapter and verse that inspired your question.

 

[BenJasher]

Hi unred,

It is kind of a long read to get the point out of this passage, so I highlighted the points in red. It speaks of Abraham, God is talking to Abimelech, and he tells him that Abraham is a prophet.

Gen 20:1 ¶ And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She [is] my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou [art but] a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she [is] a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She [is] my sister? and she, even she herself said, He [is] my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man [his] wife; for he [is] a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore [her] not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that [are] thine.

As far as documentation that Abraham knew details about creation...
It might help if you could give chapter and verse that inspired your question.

And here is more on that thought:

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, Ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
He is Jehovah our God: His judgments are in all the earth.
He hath remembered his covenant for ever, The word which he commanded to a thousand generations,
The covenant which he made with Abraham, And his oath unto Isaac,
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a statute, To Israel for an everlasting covenant,
Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, The lot of your inheritance;
When they were but a few men in number, Yea, very few, and sojourners in it.
And they went about from nation to nation, From one kingdom to another people.
He suffered no man to do them wrong; Yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
Saying, Touch not mine anointed ones, And do my prophets no harm.
And he called for a famine upon the land; He brake the whole staff of bread.

We would be glad to help you with any other questions you may have.

 

[unred typo]

Hi unred,

It is kind of a long read to get the point out of this passage, so I highlighted the points in red. It speaks of Abraham, God is talking to Abimelech, and he tells him that Abraham is a prophet.

Gen 20:1 ¶ And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She [is] my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou [art but] a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she [is] a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She [is] my sister? and she, even she herself said, He [is] my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man [his] wife; for he [is] a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore [her] not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that [are] thine.

As far as documentation that Abraham knew details about creation...
It might help if you could give chapter and verse that inspired your question.

Thank you for your verses. Yes, I see that Abraham was called a prophet now. Good call, Gabbylittleangel.

As for the question, it was more of an observation drawn from not having the information given in scripture. (Actually it is in scripture, if you count the book of Jasher to be scripture.) No where in the Bible does it say that God gave the inspiration to Abram to write the book of Genesis, and Moses would have had to hear it through his mother who was of Abram’s descendants, so Abram had to hear it directly from God if he didn‘t learn it from Noah and Shem. Do you know of any place in the Bible where either claim was made?
:smt102

 

[Vic C.]

Though I am not very familiar with the Talmud and Midrashim, much of the ancient oral tradition is recorded in these two writings. I would imagine that they explain how Noah taught the word of God to his offspring.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

No where in the Bible does it say that God gave the inspiration to Abram to write the book of Genesis,...

Abram/Abraham did not write the book of Genesis, Moses did.

..... and Moses would have had to hear it through his mother who was of Abram’s descendants, so Abram had to hear it directly from God if he didn‘t learn it from Noah and Shem. Do you know of any place in the Bible where either claim was made?
:smt102

Moses was a prophet also. There are several accounts where God tells Moses to write things down in a book. It tends to be a prophet thing to be able to travel through time ~ usually it is to give us an account of future events. If God can take a prophet into the future, or give them a vision of the future, (however God does what He does) then why would it be a hard thing for God to give a prophet a vision of the past?

 

[unred typo]

Moses was a prophet also. There are several accounts where God tells Moses to write things down in a book. It tends to be a prophet thing to be able to travel through time ~ usually it is to give us an account of future events. If God can take a prophet into the future, or give them a vision of the future, (however God does what He does) then why would it be a hard thing for God to give a prophet a vision of the past?

There is nothing that says prophets travel into the future. You’re crossing over into fiction now. God may give them a vision to warn others of his plans for the future, but that is not time travel. While I agree that a vision of the past would not be a hard thing for God to do, that doesn’t appear to be the method he used. If it is, he has certainly not told us of it. In fact, he tells the Israelites to teach their children the works of the Lord and to make piles of rocks and feast days to commemorate events of the past in order that they do not forget them. Have you ever read Jasher, Gabby?

 

[unred typo]

Though I am not very familiar with the Talmud and Midrashim, much of the ancient oral tradition is recorded in these two writings. I would imagine that they explain how Noah taught the word of God to his offspring.

I would imagine that is how they heard it as well, but I didn't find it recorded in those books. Do you have a reference of it? My question is really more about why modern theologians assume that Abram had no knowledge or belief in God and God merely chose him for no apparent reason, when we have plenty of reason to believe otherwise.

:smt102

 

[Vic C.]

I would imagine that is how they heard it as well, but I didn't find it recorded in those books. Do you have a reference of it? My question is really more about why modern theologians assume that Abram had no knowledge or belief in God and God merely chose him for no apparent reason, when we have plenty of reason to believe otherwise.

:smt102

No, no references. I only know through my studies that the Hebrews were great storytellers and were sticklers for detail and accuracy. I also understand that much of what they taught was passed on through oral tradition.

Hmm, modern theologians? I guess the key word there is modern. ;-) I assume modern is an arcronym for liberal. 8-)

 

[Oscar3]

Ben
Are you giving us the evil eye :wink: