Mormonism

[Vic C.]

... The "Death Society" - which carried out these killings in the last century - was also known as "Daughters of Gideon," "Avenging Angels," "Destroying Angels," or, in Brigham Young's reign, as "Sons of Thunder," "Sons of Dan," or "Danites" (from Genesis 49v17) and began its work in the midwest in the days of Joseph Smith and continued its work in Utah. Young can clearly be shown to have directed their attacks when, armed with the promise that they would be "gods," they assumed the power to avenge and take the lives of opponents or disobedient members, leaving their bodies littered on the ground - and inviting revenge attacks...

Red flag... why would anyone want to associate themselves with the first tribe to go the way of Idolatry and never really strayed from their idolatrous ways? :-?

 

[Rick W]

Red flag... why would anyone want to associate themselves with the first tribe to go the way of Idolatry and never really strayed from their idolatrous ways? :-?

Why would anyone want to undo the work done on the cross by retaining the priesthoods, communication of God to the people by way of a central prophet and assigning "elders" to teach the people the ways of God like the pharisees did? By doing so they essentially place the Holy Spirit back behind the veil as it was before Christ died.
There's a "ceremony of the veil" in which a man "playing" God stands behind a curtain and embraces members standing in front of it. I'm not really sure what that one is about.

 

[Biblereader]

[quote="vic C.":94cad]It's actually a variation of Pascal's Wager. ;-)

Was Blaise Pascal a born again Christian,or just a fancy pants mathematician?

No one is "born" a Christian[/quote:94cad]

Born again. Straight from the bible: ye must be born again.

You know!

 

[Biblereader]

The "Death Society" - which carried out these killings in the last century - was also known as "Daughters of Gideon," "Avenging Angels," "Destroying Angels," or, in Brigham Young's reign, as "Sons of Thunder," "Sons of Dan," or "Danites" (from Genesis 49v17) and began its work in the midwest in the days of Joseph Smith and continued its work in Utah. Young can clearly be shown to have directed their attacks when, armed with the promise that they would be "gods," they assumed the power to avenge and take the lives of opponents or disobedient members, leaving their bodies littered on the ground - and inviting revenge attacks.

It wasn't just blood letting. They had to die.

Another mark of a cult.
What I wonder is, now, in this day and age, why are people so swept up into Mormonism?
What type of person does Mrm attract, if there is one, what age group, what educational level,
what ethnicity, etc.

 

[Biblereader]

Much better list than mine.

CHRISTIAN DEFINITION

CULT - Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.i. They deny the Deity of Christ; His physical resurrection; His personal and physical return to earth and salvation by FAITH alone.

This definition only covers those groups which are cults within the Christian religion. It does not cover cults within other world religions such as Islam and Hinduism. Nor does it cover Psychological, Commercial or Educational cults which do not recognize the Bible as a source of reality....

... OTHER IDENTIFICATION MARKS

(a) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE. e.i. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy.

(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL...

... SOME ABUSES OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:-

1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY They adopt a "groupness" mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.

2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. ABUSE OF FINANCES Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

4. "US VERSUS THEM" MENTALITY Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or "unenlightened" etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a "means to an end".

5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their "will" actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".

http://www.religio.de/cudef.html

 

[Biblereader]

. I have been in the bishopbric meetings to see the ploys being used. I have seen the threatening and brainwashing being done that is created to keep people bound to it.

Well, I'm interested. What ploys?
What threats and brainwashing?

Is it true, that the Mormon's have a little secret, which is, they believe black and brown people
are cursed, and they were a third of the "spirit children" born to God and his wives (what blasphemy!)
and, the ones who didn't fight faithfully for Jesus, were born with black skin?
(Mormon doctrines of salvation, page 61)
I noticed, while in an airport in Salt Lake City, that there was an abundance of very white, Mormons.
No black ones.
I think it's ludicrous, and sinful, to reject and label a person based on their color.

 

[Biblereader]

So, is Mormonism a racist religion?

 

[Rick W]

What I wonder is, now, in this day and age, why are people so swept up into Mormonism?
What type of person does Mrm attract, if there is one, what age group, what educational level,
what ethnicity, etc.

Most of my experience is from the Salt Lake Valley. It's a culture, practiced from one generation to another. I've said this before but if a member of the LDS church turns their back on mormonism they stand to lose quite a bit... family, friends and possibly their job.

 

[Barbara Allan]

Just because one does not like the misuse of the term "cult" does not mean one is "deceived". To think one knows all the answers, though, that is the epitome of self-deception.

And for one to think they have the answers and not take anything from someone who has lived the life is the epitome of arrogance.

You can hang on to your false notions about the mormons if you want but I have lived it. I have been in the bishopbric meetings to see the ploys being used. I have seen the use of outside programs to create better missionaries for the mormon church. I have seen the threatening and brainwashing being done that is created to keep people bound to it. I have seen the "tithing settlement" at the end of the year where you have to report a full tithing or make it up if you don't want to be kept from any of the "blessings of the Lord."

So fine, you can hang onto your false notions, but don't for a minute call me self deceived until you have the experience to do so. It is not me who is deceived.

Do they hold guns to people's heads?

I don't agree with Mormon doctrine, but calling them a 'cult' is just a meaningless and misused epithet.

 

[Rick W]

"a religion with which I disagree" is not a correct definition for a cult.

What is the correct definition?

 

[Rick W]

Do they hold guns to people's heads?

No need for guns.

They turn your family against you. You are disowned.
They turn your friends against you. You are alone.
They turn your neighbors against you. You are exiled.
If your spouse becomes Christian they will advice divorce.

Holding everything dear to you over your head why would you need a gun?

Curtis,
Am I off-target here?

 

[DavidLee]

"a religion with which I disagree" is not a correct definition for a cult.

What is the correct definition?

cult |kəlt|
noun
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object : the cult of St. Olaf.
• a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister : a network of Satan-worshiping cults.
• a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing : a cult of personality surrounding the leaders.
• [usu. as adj. ] a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, esp. among a particular section of society : a cult film.
DERIVATIVES
cultic |-tik| adjective
cultish adjective
cultishness noun
cultism |-ˌtizəm| noun
cultist |-tist| noun
ORIGIN early 17th cent.(originally denoting homage paid to a divinity): from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere.

 

[Barbara Allan]

"a religion with which I disagree" is not a correct definition for a cult.

What is the correct definition?

You know what? I just read Wikipedia's article on "cult" and due to the myriad of definitions my insistence coercion is a required component was not valid. I would encourage any and all to read that. It's pretty good.

And I will say this about fundamentalist Christians calling the LDS a cult: that is a mighty ironic example of the pot calling the kettle black. When things happen at right-wing churches like members doing interventions in 2004 with other members supporting John Kerry, and on message boards like this one where right-wing fundamentalists make innuendoes those with whom they disagree are "not Christians" it takes a lotta gall to call Mormons a cult. If you want to see a cult look in the freaking mirror.

 

[Barbara Allan]

Do they hold guns to people's heads?

No need for guns.

They turn your family against you. You are disowned.
They turn your friends against you. You are alone.
They turn your neighbors against you. You are exiled.
If your spouse becomes Christian they will advice divorce.

Holding everything dear to you over your head why would you need a gun?

Curtis,
Am I off-target here?

IOW, exactly like right-wing Christian groups.

 

[Biblereader]

They turn your family against you. You are disowned.
They turn your friends against you. You are alone.
They turn your neighbors against you. You are exiled.
If your spouse becomes Christian they will advice divorce.

Holding everything dear to you over your head why would you need a gun?

Curtis,
Am I off-target here?

Is this true? Are you serious?

 

[Biblereader]

IOW, exactly like right-wing Christian groups.

Oh, come ON Barbara! You're smarter than THAT!

Take a walk, chill out.

Right wing Christian groups are loving, supportive, and NEVER advocate divorce,
and none of my lost friends have turned against me, not ever.
Some of my family members are lost, on their way to hell, but, we're close, and
loving.
You must have had a very hurtful, maybe even traumatic psychological event in your life, with someone who called themself a Christian, to make you say such an uneducated, blanket statement.

 

[Rick W]

Barbara,
You haven't been exposed to Mormonism like that in the Salt Lake Valley. You just haven't seen first hand what it's capable of doing. Data-mining on the net isn't going to give you any of that experience. You can argue your opinion all you like but you're not going to convince those who have had experience with the LDS church that mormonism isn't a cult. Outside it's influence is a whole different world. And that world just can't fathom the power of the animal and it's propensity to bite. No way.

One thing I noticed is the Christian churches under it's shadow don't bicker about liberties anywhere near as much as they do outside it's circle of influence. There's a lot more attention given to the essentials of Christianity within those churches and for good reason... survival.

There is a lot of work put forth from those Christian churches in outreach programs and programs to aid those who have lost just about everything coming out of Mormonism. These programs offer compassion, comfort and support usually headed by those who have come out of the LDS church. Many of these people are those who have held high positions within the Mormon church. They know it, lived it, know what goes on behind closed doors and have seen what it can do first hand. Understanding the people, the culture of Mormonism in the valley and the nature of the hold the church has on it's members there is the prime directive, not bashing someone over the head with a bible.

 

[Vic C.]

... And I will say this about fundamentalist Christians calling the LDS a cult: that is a mighty ironic example of the pot calling the kettle black. When things happen at right-wing churches like members doing interventions in 2004 with other members supporting John Kerry, and on message boards like this one where right-wing fundamentalists make innuendoes those with whom they disagree are "not Christians" it takes a lotta gall to call Mormons a cult. If you want to see a cult look in the freaking mirror.

OK, you had your fun and got your stabs in for now. I'm warning you, NO MORE, PLEASE! You have at least two ex-mormons here telling things you just don't want to hear. That's unfortunate. Plus you accuse the conservative believers here of name calling, then turn around and do the same to them. That's hypocrisy by most definitions.

The constant denial of facts set before you and the bashing of everyone that you disagree with stops now. Go the extra mile and believe what those educated, in the ways of the Mormons, tell you.

 

[Rick W]

Is this true? Are you serious?

Someone turning their back on mormonism, getting their name off "the list", is akin to mutiny against one's family. It's viewed as dishonor and disgrace, a black mark against the family name.

Very basic hierarchy:
Each community has an LDS sponsored church called a Ward. Most of these wards, churches, have a gymnasium where many community functions are held. Members can use these facilities for various events including marriages that aren't done in the temple, family reunions etc. And of course it serves as recreation for the children. This bonds the community under the watchful eye of the stake presidency. A stake is made up of several wards, usually 10 to 15 or so. Under the presidency is the high council which is usually 12 men representing the wards. These men hold the position of high priest. The stake presidency is responsible for making sure all is done within the confines of the programs of the LDS church.

Someone turning away from mormonism isn't well accepted at community functions. Sure, they can attend but he or she will get the cold shoulder treatment. This again brings embarrassment to the family. And of course the higher ups aren't teaching those families forgiveness or tolerance either much less the community. In essense you're "black-balled". You won't recieve cordual invitation to those functions.

This is why there are programs such as "Bridges" sponsored by a church I used to attend. You're taught what it means to be mormon and what the consequences can be for an LDS member choosing a christian path. It's nothing at all like what we know around the rest of the country.
waitinontheLamb knows the experience, he's been there, done that, like so many others whose testimonies I've heard face-to-face concerning this. It's heart-breaking. There's a lot more at stake than simply declaring one's beliefs.

 

[Barbara Allan]

IOW, exactly like right-wing Christian groups.

Oh, come ON Barbara! You're smarter than THAT!

Take a walk, chill out.

Right wing Christian groups are loving, supportive, and NEVER advocate divorce,
and none of my lost friends have turned against me, not ever.
Some of my family members are lost, on their way to hell, but, we're close, and
loving.
You must have had a very hurtful, maybe even traumatic psychological event in your life, with someone who called themself a Christian, to make you say such an uneducated, blanket statement.

If you really believe that about your family members how you could support such an evil system is beyond me.

Yes, I had a traumatic event; it was called the Junior Bush Administration.