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Mother Teresa Born Again?

turnorburn

Member
The following are comments surrounding Mother Teresa

Poor Mother Teresa Good Works  But No Faith




Issue Date: November/December 2007

Mother Teresa; to the world the epitome of humility and saintliness. She was honored by popes, presidents and with a Nobel peace prize. But a recently published book of her personal letters reveals a troubled soul. As early as 1953 she wrote, “... there is such terrible darkness within me, as if everything was dead.â€Â

She continually referred to her “darkness†and to Jesus as “the Absent One†when discussing her spiritual condition with her confessors. She wrote in 1979, “The silence and the emptiness is so great  that I look and do not see,  listen and do not hear.†This a common thread in her private communications until her death in 1997.

Since the publication of this book of her private struggle, the world has wondered how such a “saint†could feel such spiritual darkness. Some have praised her for her “humanitarian†work as if that should have given her light for her soul.

She claimed that one Roman Catholic counselor brought her some relief with the idea that she was simply sharing in the suffering of Jesus on the cross when He felt abandoned and cried, “My God, My God. Why hast thou forsaken me.†The Vatican teaches that our suffering can add to the “treasury of merit†established by Jesus and contributed to by those who suffer in the world. This teaching is based on a misinterpretation of Colossians 1:24.

David C. Cloud of Way of Life Ministries followed the career of Mother Teresa for many years. He has said all along that she “…was a faithful daughter of Rome, that her Jesus was the wafer of the Catholic Mass, that her protector was Mary, and that her gospel was universalism.â€Â

Several times in her speeches she would state the importance of having a priest to turn the wafer into the body, blood and divinity of Jesus.

At one point, when asked if she attempted to “convert†the homeless that she ministered too, said, “Of course I convert. I convert you to be a better Hindu or a better Muslim or a better Protestant. Once you’ve found God, it’s up to you to decide how to worship him.†She obviously had bought into the idea that all religions ultimately lead to God.

Mother Teresa is a sad example of how religions based on ritual leave the people with a darkness of soul. She was intimately acquainted with the major religions of the east: Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism and probably even some of Islam. Yet she did not find in them any light for her “darkness.†Their rituals were as spiritually hollo as those of her Roman Catholicism.

Yet her fame contributed to the bondage that kept her from seeing the true Light of the world, the Jesus of the Bible, not her wafer “Jesus.â€Â
 
turnorburn,

Without the Holy Spirit it is not possible to Love the way she Loved. She represented God in a powerful way by bring His Love to the world.
 
jesuschildsmaller0ip.gif


Nobody worked harder than he, and we in return are to glorify his name. It isn't by works we are saved, but by grace.

In His Service,
turnorburn
 
turnorburn said:
Nobody worked harder than he,
of course no one works harder that He. the only reason she could "work"so hard is because she allowed the Spirit of God to flow through her unfiltered. unlike myself and much of the world where we have walls around spots of our heart which blocks love from flowing out to everyone [/quote]
turnorburn said:
It isn't by works we are saved, but by grace.

we agree that we are saved by grace, salvation is a gift(grace)from God
 
:smt006 If this were true..

[of course no one works harder that He. the only reason she could "work"so hard is because she allowed the Spirit of God to flow through her unfiltered. unlike myself and much of the world where we have walls around spots of our heart which blocks love from flowing out to everyone]

Then why did she say she couldn't find hope, that all she found was darkness? If your truly filled with Gods spirit, there is nothing but light. :D

In His Service,
turnorburn
 
Many Protestant's have lost the concept of the "dark night of the soul".

Life in Jesus is not just this happy, warm fuzzy feeling. Her confessors were wise in informing her that her suffering and feelings of abandonment were a way of becoming connected to Christ's own suffering.

"Christians are called to not only suffer, but to make suffering holy" - Thomas Merton

Our rewards do not come now; comfort, pleasure, an easy and happy life, we are lucky if, as Christians, we recieve those now. We are not called to pursue them, we are not called to need them. We are called to suffer and die with Christ so as to rise with him and enter into his unfathomable glory.

Mother Theresa was often filled with lonely, terrifying doubt. Yet she perservered in faith and did not abandon the mission that God had entrusted her with. I would hope it is the same with all of us, that we do not abandon God's mission because we are afraid he is absent or he ceases to make us feel warm and safe.

Sometimes God, in his wise mercy, will see fit to destroy things in us that we hold dear and cling to. In this sinful world, even our sense of faith can become pride.
 
I'm sorry, your skirting the issue, by her own volition she admitted she was without Christ.
So what are you attempting to do, pray her out of purgatory? She was plagued by these feelings.

wonderland-1.jpg


In His Service,
turnorburn

And the whole world wondered after the beast
 
turnorburn said:
I'm sorry, your skirting the issue, by her own volition she admitted she was without Christ.
So what are you attempting to do, pray her out of purgatory? She was plagued by these feelings.
I'm interested in how you know who is born again. Do they look different, maybe smell different? has God given you the gift to judge in His place. Did God gift you with knowing hearts?

those who Love God are known by their fruits and her fruits were many
 
Arj said:
Iff you are born again,youll know it. :)

I'm glad to hear that.

so when you look at your brother how do you know he is born again by looking at him?

by what criteria do you judge others born again status?
 
th56308454.jpg


Your still skirting the issue, she confessed that she was in darkness. Jesus says there is no darkness in him, he is the light. But she wouldn't come to the light why? because her deeds were....

In His Service,
turnorburn
 
turnorburn said:
Your still skirting the issue, she confessed that she was in darkness. Jesus says there is no darkness in him, he is the light. But she wouldn't come to the light why? because her deeds were....

In His Service,
turnorburn

You're missing what is being said by this Great Saint of God. It would be a good idea for you to read the book and not just a commentary from a person who hates catholicism.

the fruit of the Spirit is Love, he who say he has faith but has no Love doesn't really "know"God
those who know Our Lord Love. Love is the vocation of the human heart. She embodied Love in a profound way. The Holy Spirit was poured on her like oil and a double portion at that, the spirit flowed through her like a river taking care of Christ in all the least of the brethren. She saw the "I Thirst" of Christ calling out from the poor, she was a woman after Gods heart

don't tell people Jesus Loves them till you Love them first
 
Hi Turn or Burn,
I'm kind of disapointed that your taking such a stand on this very important issue.

Have you read the poem "Footprints"?
He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord.

Scenes from his life flashed across the sky
and he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
one belonging to him and the other to the Lord.

When the last scene of his life had flashed before him,
he recalled that at the lowest and saddest times of his life
there was only one set of footprints.

Dismayed, he asked, "Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you,
you'd walk with me all the way.
I don't understand why, when I needed you most,
you would leave me."

The Lord replied, "My precious child.
I love you and I would never leave you.

During your times of trial and suffering
when you saw only one set of footprints...

That was when I carried you."

Mother Teressa was a wonderful saint so full of compassion and love for humanity. Certainly she has her rewards in our Father's loving arms.

James 1:19-27
19Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
 
Mother Teresa, though an Albanian Roman Catholic nun who founded the Missionaries of Charity in India and won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979 for her humanitarian work over the course of almost 50 years, made the confession in 1962 that "If I ever become a Saint  I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will continually be absent from Heaven  to [light] the light of those in darkness on earth". She had made the comment in 1961 to theologian Joseph Neuner that she had "come to love the darkness". She also admitted that she "felt no presence of God whatsoever  neither in her heart or in the eucharist." ("Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith", Time, August 23,2007)

She was noted for helping the poor and helpless. After Mary had poured "perfumed oil, genuine nard" on Jesus feet, wiping it off with her hair, Jesus then said that "For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me....Truly I say to you, Wherever this good news is preached in all the world, what this woman did shall also be told as a remembrance of her.â€Â(Matt 26:11,13) Yes, helping others is a mark of true Christianity. Yet Jesus said that there was much more to being a true Christian than just providing material assistance. What did Jesus assign his disciples to do ?

At Matthew 24:14, Jesus, in giving a concise answer to his apostles question of "What will the sign of your presence and the conclusion of the system of things"(Matt 24:3) three days before his death, said that "this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." Then, just before his ascension to his Father in heaven, gave to his eleven faithful apostles this command: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."(Matt 28:19,20) He further said that "you will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.â€Â(Acts 1:8)

Many give "lip service" to being a Christian, perhaps giving to charities. This, however, is not the mark of true Christianity, for Jesus set the example of aiding others to know God, by explaining to all that he met the "good news of the kingdom". Mother Teresa only provided help for the poor, but did not provide an education concerning God's kingdom. Since the Catholic church has no grasp on the meaning of God's kingdom, how could it provide to Mother Teresa that which it itself does not understand ?

In harmony with Jesus, the apostle Paul wrote that God's "will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth", assisting others to understand that "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:4-6) In providing an illustration of how to identify the true religion, Jesus said that "narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:14)

He then says that "By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men]."(Matt 7:16-20) What ' fruitage' have most religions of the world provided ? Who are the few ones doing God's will and thus on "the road leading off into life", willing to preach "this good news of the kingdom" from "house to house" in imitation of Jesus Christ ?(Acts 20:20)
 
:sad Which stand, it seems there has been quite a bit of activity here. From her lips she confessed to being in darkness, now if you feel my eye sight is failing and I misread it then its time for new glasses. Or do you agree that she was lost, this can all be cleared up by sharing that with me :wink:

StoveBolts said:
Hi Turn or Burn,
I'm kind of disapointed that your taking such a stand on this very important issue.

Have you read the poem "Footprints"?
He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord.

Scenes from his life flashed across the sky
and he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
one belonging to him and the other to the Lord.

When the last scene of his life had flashed before him,
he recalled that at the lowest and saddest times of his life
there was only one set of footprints.

Dismayed, he asked, "Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you,
you'd walk with me all the way.
I don't understand why, when I needed you most,
you would leave me."

The Lord replied, "My precious child.
I love you and I would never leave you.

During your times of trial and suffering
when you saw only one set of footprints...

That was when I carried you."

Mother Teressa was a wonderful saint so full of compassion and love for humanity. Certainly she has her rewards in our Father's loving arms.

James 1:19-27
19Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
 
turnorburn said:
:sad Which stand, it seems there has been quite a bit of activity here. From her lips she confessed to being in darkness, now if you feel my eye sight is failing and I misread it then its time for new glasses. Or do you agree that she was lost, this can all be cleared up by sharing that with me :wink:

yeah, the boards can get active at times. This will probably be my last post till tomorrow though.

What I disagree with, is the inferance that Mother Teressa would be burning in hell. Though you have not come right out and made that claim, it does indeed lurk just below your posts. If I carry this misconception of your inference, then please do clarify this little matter that seems to be nagging me.

Yes or no will suffice. From what you are able to discern, where will Mother Teressa spend eternity?

As Christians, it's not uncommon to feel dry or even lost at times. From personal experience, I have went through many great agonies where I was at a loss where God was, if at all in my life. When I look at the book of Job, did he not feel that God had abandoned him? And although Joseph did not come out and sin agains God (that we know of), don't you think that there might have been times when he wasn't too sure about where God was? Simply put, there comes a time in our lives when we can look at all the oppression, all the sin and all the down right evil things that are happening in this world and we can feel like God is nowhere to be found. When we suffer these things because we know that God has a better plan for humanity, yet it appears that the sins of the world abounds in plenty, well then, I truly can see where she felt like she was void of God... just like Job. You see, sometimes God truly is present in his absence.

As far as your eye sight, I have learned the hard way to be careful at how you view the things you see at times. Jesus often spoke in parables to those who claimed they could see... As far as myself, I see a wonderful, compassionate person that will have many crowns to give back to Jesus for the Fathers Glory.
 
quote by nadab on Fri Nov 23, 2007:

In harmony with Jesus, the apostle Paul wrote that God's "will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth", assisting others to understand that "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:4-6) In providing an illustration of how to identify the true religion, Jesus said that "narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:14)
My Bible says
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.†You have changed this significantly with your little twist. It’s these subtle alterations that make Calvinistic doctrines possible.

quote by nadab:
She was noted for helping the poor and helpless. After Mary had poured "perfumed oil, genuine nard" on Jesus feet, wiping it off with her hair, Jesus then said that "For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me....Truly I say to you, Wherever this good news is preached in all the world, what this woman did shall also be told as a remembrance of her.â€Â(Matt 26:11,13) Yes, helping others is a mark of true Christianity. Yet Jesus said that there was much more to being a true Christian than just providing material assistance. What did Jesus assign his disciples to do ?

That’s an easy question. The answer is right at the very end of Matthew’s gospel. Matthew 28:18-20

And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now we only have to go back to chapters five to seven and catch most of what he commanded them in one single sermon. Maybe Mother Theresa will be among the righteous crowd on the right hand that’s says, “Lord, when saw we you hungry, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink? When did we see you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you? Or did we see you sick, o in prison, and came unto you?â€Â
 
quote by StoveBolts on Fri Nov 23, 2007:
As Christians, it's not uncommon to feel dry or even lost at times. From personal experience, I have went through many great agonies where I was at a loss where God was, if at all in my life.

This is true. Look at even John the Baptist, of whom Jesus even said there was no one born among women greater than him.

Luke 7:20-22 or Matthew 11:4-6
20When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto you, saying, Are you he that should come? or look we for another?
21And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
22Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things you have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.
 
I think I speak for all of us, we seek to edify a savior that loves us more than we can ever know in this life. Anything more would surely be our end, for then we would have seen God. Amazing grace,
how very sweet the sound, for I am a sinner of the very worse kind, and yet he left that door open so I could come home.

If I had the controls over this thread I would lock it, too many heart felt feelings, where only serious consequences are the final outcome. A tool for the devil, most foul, his middle name,dessension and then its detention, locked away in a guilty cell convited. Call it condemnation of the devil. Lord willing we'll make a more positive thread.

In His Service,
turnorburn
 
turnorburn said:
too many heart felt feelings,
we're just following the Savior, I think the Heart is always a good place to check to see if someone knows Christ. Because if the Heart is not transformed you're just putting new wine in old wine skins
turnorburn said:
Lord willing we'll make a more positive thread.
We've made this positive by bringing the truth to you, kind of bringing it to the light so-to-speak
 
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