Mother Teresa Born Again?

[turnorburn]

That part isn't right about your heart... Romans

Chapter 12

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And again in Proverbs 28

25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.
26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

You see then its the heart, a black and an evil place, trust it your toast.

In His Service,
turnorburn

And besides this thread has drawn enough attention to itself, as well as Mother Teresa :wink:

 

[stovebolts]

While reading through the original OP, I noticed that there are two short quotes by Mother Teressa, and the rest is commentary from the author of this poorly written article.

turnorburn,
Please provide the text in which Mother Teressa is quoted from. Since this is your OP, it is your duty to provide your authors sources so that we may evaluate the article in it's fullness for accuracy as it is common in the realm of catholic bashing to take snipits from here, and snipits from there to form a picture that is less than true or concise.

As a contridictory remark, I find it humerous that the OP starts out with the accusation that Mother Teressa feels dark and spirtually alone, and in your last post, you remark that we are not to trust in our heart... May I point you back to the poem, "Footprints in the sand"?

Now then, since the conversation appears to be moving toward matters of the heart, let us be reasonable, have you read any of Jonathan Edwards work? Here is a snipit of his book called, Religious Affections. It can be found at http://ccel.org for your online pleasure.

What has been said of the nature of the affections makes this evident, and may be sufficient, without adding anything further, to put this matter out of doubt; for who will deny that true religion consists in a great measure, in vigorous and lively actings of the inclination and will of the soul, or the fervent exercises of the heart?

That religion which God requires, and will accept, does not consist in weak, dull, and lifeless wishes, raising us but a little above a state of indifference: God, in his word, greatly insists upon it, that we be good in earnest, "fervent in spirit," and our hearts vigorously engaged in religion: Rom. 12:11, "Be ye fervent in spirit, serving the Lord." Deut. 10:12, "And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord the God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul?" and chap. 6:4, 6, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy might." It is such a fervent vigorous engagedness of the heart in religion, that is the fruit of a real circumcision of the heart, or true regeneration, and that has the promises of life; Deut. 30:6, “And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

If we be not in good earnest in religion, and our wills and inclinations be not strongly exercised, we are nothing. The things of religion are so great, that there can be no suitableness in the exercises of our hearts, to their nature and importance, unless they be lively and powerful. In nothing is vigor in the actings of our inclinations so requisite, as in religion; and in nothing is lukewarmness so odious. True religion is evermore a powerful thing; and the power of it appears, in the first place in the inward exercises of it in the heart, where is the principal and original seat of it. Hence true religion is called the power of godliness, in distinction from the external appearances of it, that are the form of it, 2 Tim. 3:5: "Having a form of godliness, but denying thepower of it." The Spirit of God, in those that have sound and solid religion, is a spirit of powerful holy affection; and therefore, God is said "to have given the Spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind," 2 Tim. 1:7. And such, when they receive the Spirit of God, in his sanctifying and saving influences, are said to be "baptized with the Holy Ghost, and with fire;" by reason of the power and fervor of those exercises the Spirit of God excites in their hearts, whereby their hearts, when grace is in exercise, may be said to “burn within them;" as is said of the disciples, Luke 24:32.

 

[turnorburn]

Oh then that would explain why in a nunery they practice flagellations, to crucify themselves unto Christ :crazyeyes:

Many Protestant's have lost the concept of the "dark night of the soul".

Life in Jesus is not just this happy, warm fuzzy feeling. Her confessors were wise in informing her that her suffering and feelings of abandonment were a way of becoming connected to Christ's own suffering.

"Christians are called to not only suffer, but to make suffering holy" - Thomas Merton

Our rewards do not come now; comfort, pleasure, an easy and happy life, we are lucky if, as Christians, we recieve those now. We are not called to pursue them, we are not called to need them. We are called to suffer and die with Christ so as to rise with him and enter into his unfathomable glory.

Mother Theresa was often filled with lonely, terrifying doubt. Yet she perservered in faith and did not abandon the mission that God had entrusted her with. I would hope it is the same with all of us, that we do not abandon God's mission because we are afraid he is absent or he ceases to make us feel warm and safe.

Sometimes God, in his wise mercy, will see fit to destroy things in us that we hold dear and cling to. In this sinful world, even our sense of faith can become pride.

 

[unred typo]

quote by turnorburn:
Oh then that would explain why in a nunery they practice flagellations, to crucify themselves unto Christ

No need for that. All who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

 

[turnorburn]

quote by turnorburn:
Oh then that would explain why in a nunery they practice flagellations, to crucify themselves unto Christ

No need for that. All who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

: If I've learned anything its this, if you tangle with the Catholic church you've tangled with the devil himself. That CCEL forum or rather it's library you directed me to is owned by their church I know I'm a member, want to see my monthly newsletter http://www.ccel.org/newsletter/2/11.
They deleted 98% of my posts, now why do you suppose they did that?, I'll tell you why, they referred to Mary as a mediatrix :crazyeyes: Now your asking me for more evidence? Why not lock this thread? Unless you prefer the forum to be littered with such evidence.

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[Devekut]

turnorburn:

If I've learned anything its this,

Well, that seems to be a pretty big "if"....

 

[turnorburn]

: There are no if's about this..
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?v ... efce43ea25

 

[Devekut]

Well considering that you've called the Catholic Church "the devil himself", are you aware that the "Passion of the Christ" was done by a devout (although possibly schismatic Catholic) and that the movie bears a very distinct Catholic spirituality?

 

[Guest]

Thanks to our biased media, few know how Mother Teresa of Calcutta stole one and a quarter million dollars from a U.S. bank in the 1992 Lincoln, Savings, and Loan Scandal. However, Christopher Hitchens records the entire event in his critical book on Mother Teresa. Hitchens discusses how Mr. Charles Keating had stolen up to $252,000,000 dollars from small time investors during the 1980’s. Keating, a conservative Catholic who had served under Richard Nixon, gave Mother Teresa over a million dollars of that stolen money. During Keating’s trial, Mother Teresa sent a letter to the court in an attempt to obtain clemency for Keating. After Keating was convicted of the theft and sentenced to 10 years in prison, the Deputy District Attorney of Los Angeles County (Mr. Paul Turley) contacted Mother Teresa and demanded that she return the stolen money. The D.A. explained to Mother Teresa in a letter how Keating had pulled off the crime, and how he had been convicted! (The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa In Theory And Practice, Part III, pages 64- 71) The D.A. wrote:

“You [Mother Teresa] urge Judge Ito to look into his heart--as he sentences Charles Keating--and do what Jesus would do. I submit the same challenge to you. Ask yourself what Jesus would do if he were given the fruits of crime; what Jesus would do if he were in possession of money that had been stolen; what Jesus would do if he were being exploited by a thief to ease his conscience?
“I submit that Jesus would promptly and unhesitatingly return the stolen property to its rightful owners. You should do the same…Do not keep the money. Return it to those who worked for it and earned it!†(Ibid., page 70).

Hitchens ends this section of his book by stating: “Three years later, Mr. Turley has received no reply to his letter. Nor can anybody account for the missing money: saints, it seems, are immune to audit. This is by no means the only example of Mother Teresa’s surreptitious attitude to money…But it is the clearest and best documented instance†(Ibid., page 71).

Like Judas, Mother Teresa’s sin flowed from the love of money: “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith… But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness†(1 Timothy 6:10-11).

The documentation is superb--mother teresa was a criminal.

 

[Free]

Can one do what Mother Teresa did and not be born again?

 

[Devekut]

Red Beetle,

Did you know that Christopher Hitchens is the world's foremost militant atheist who directly seeks to undermine and ultimately defeat religion everywhere?

This does not, in itself ruin the objectivity of his book, but it should nevertheless give you pause before quoting him. He has a clear agenda and I doubt you would ever quote him in any other capacity aside from your Catholic bashing.

 

[unred typo]

quote by RED BEETLE on Sat Nov 24, 2007:

Like Judas, Mother Teresa’s sin flowed from the love of money: “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith… But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness†(1 Timothy 6:10-11).

The documentation is superb--mother teresa was a criminal.

I don’t know much about the lady, but from what I did see, she didn’t seem to be profiting from her million dollar grant from all appearances. Once I saw her spurn an obsequious remark by some Hollywood type person and direct attention to the poor instead of herself. Other than that, I have no information as to her motives or heart’s intent that I could so summarily judge her on. I would think that even if I had lived with her for most of her life, I still would not see her heart as God would. Why don’t we leave judgment with him, since there is no benefit to dragging her memory through the mud. You may feel it necessary to comment on her actions (if it was her decision) in keeping money of dubious sources, but to call her a criminal, like Judas who loved money? You’re out of line, and if I were you, I would heed the advice to ‘judge not lest you also be judged.’

 

[turnorburn]

:wink: Maybe this will explain..
I Corinthians

Chapter 6

1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[unred typo]

Maybe this will help:
Proverbs 18:13He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Maybe not.

Maybe your explanation needs an explanation.

 

[turnorburn]

:smt031 Judgement begins in the house of God, the scriptures say, don't you know that ye shall judge angels? I made a judgement called, you can't take that from me, Can you now?

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[unred typo]

The verse doesn’t seem to apply to judging Mother Teresa here on this forum. We don’t know her, she can’t defend herself, and we have only hearsay evidence. How fair is that? :-?

 

[turnorburn]

:-D See how easy that was, you made your call, I made mine

 

[stovebolts]

turnorburn,
Please provide the text in which Mother Teressa is quoted from. Since this is your OP, it is your duty to provide your authors sources so that we may evaluate the article in it's fullness for accuracy as it is common in the realm of catholic bashing to take snipits from here, and snipits from there to form a picture that is less than true or concise.

Still waiting...

 

[stovebolts]

If I've learned anything its this, if you tangle with the Catholic church you've tangled with the devil himself. That CCEL forum or rather it's library you directed me to is owned by their church I know I'm a member, want to see my monthly newsletter http://www.ccel.org/newsletter/2/11.

You really need to get your facts straight. No wonder your so confused...

http://www.ccel.org/about
Click on "About" from http://ccel.org

Contact information:

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http://www.calvin.edu/about/

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[nadab]

quote by nadab on Fri Nov 23, 2007:

In harmony with Jesus, the apostle Paul wrote that God's "will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth", assisting others to understand that "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:4-6) In providing an illustration of how to identify the true religion, Jesus said that "narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:14)

My Bible says
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.†You have changed this significantly with your little twist. It’s these subtle alterations that make Calvinistic doctrines possible.

[quote:37725]quote by nadab:
She was noted for helping the poor and helpless. After Mary had poured "perfumed oil, genuine nard" on Jesus feet, wiping it off with her hair, Jesus then said that "For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me....Truly I say to you, Wherever this good news is preached in all the world, what this woman did shall also be told as a remembrance of her.â€Â(Matt 26:11,13) Yes, helping others is a mark of true Christianity. Yet Jesus said that there was much more to being a true Christian than just providing material assistance. What did Jesus assign his disciples to do ?

That’s an easy question. The answer is right at the very end of Matthew’s gospel. Matthew 28:18-20

And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Now we only have to go back to chapters five to seven and catch most of what he commanded them in one single sermon. Maybe Mother Theresa will be among the righteous crowd on the right hand that’s says, “Lord, when saw we you hungry, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink? When did we see you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you? Or did we see you sick, or in prison, and came unto you?â€Â[/quote:37725]

Hi unred typo,
You are quoting from the King James Bible. Darby's Bible renders 1 Timothy 2:3,4 as "for this is good and acceptable before our Saviour God, who desires that all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." The interlinear reading of The Emphatic Diaglott (Greek-English by Benjamin Wilson in 1864) reads at 1 Timothy 2:3,4 reads: "This [for] good and acceptable in presence of the preserver of us God, who all men wishes to be saved, and into exact knowledge of truth to come." And the Greek-English interlinear reading by Cambridge University scholars B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort, "The New Testament in the Original Greek"(1881), says: "This fine and receivable back in sight of the Savior of us of God who all men is willing to be saved and into accurate knowledge of truth to come."

Thus, God desires for "all men to be saved" and come "into accurate knowledge of truth", but the vast majority will never measure up to God's holy standards. There is more to salvation than just "believe on the the Lord and you will be saved".(Acts 16:31) In giving the illustration on the ' cramped gate' and 'narrow road', Jesus concludes this by clearly saying that "few are the ones finding it" at Matthew 7:14. How many were doing God's will in Noah's day ? Out of the millions that were perhaps living at that time, only "eight souls" were acceptable to God.(1 Pet 3:20)

How many are willing to measure up to the moral chastity that the Bible sets out ? Jesus said that an immoral desire even in one's heart was wrong, saying: "You heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." How many are willing to cull out these wrong desires ? Jesus then gave this solemn counsel: "If, now, that right eye of yours is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to be pitched into Ge·hen´na. Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost than for your whole body to land in Ge·hen´na."(Matt 5:27-30) Who are willing to go to that length to be morally chaste ?

The apostle Paul wrote: "What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom." Those wishing to please God had to throw out these bad traits and replace them with "righteous" ones. That is why Paul now says that "that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God."(1 Cor 6:9-11)

Hours before his death, Jesus told his faithful eleven apostles "These things I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you. Bear in mind the word I said to you, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also; if they have observed my word, they will observe yours also."(John 15:17-20) Few are willing to accept the challenge of imitating Jesus, being "no part of the world" and thus be "hated" by the "world". Who are unwilling to mingle in the political arena and hence be "hated", but rather directs everyone's attention to the government that Jesus preached throughout his ministry - God's kingdom ? Who are unwilling to mix false religious teachings, such as Christmas, or Easter, or that there is a hellfire in with Bible truth ?

Jesus said that his ransom sacrifice would not cover everyone, but that "the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.â€Â(Matt 20:28) Jesus further said to Nicodemas that "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16) Who are those "exercising faith" ? In addition, Jesus said that "not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will." Who are the ones "doing the will of my Father" ? How many profess to be Christian, perhaps saying: ", ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’" But how does Jesus respond ? "And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you ! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."(Matt 7:21-23) Jesus also said: "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord', but do not do the things I say ? "(Luke 6:46)

Who are the ones willing to measure up to the requirements for the true religion that Jesus spoke of at John 4:23,24, saying: "the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth" ? Very few indeed.

You recognize that Jesus assigned his "slaves" the work of Matthew 28:19,20. Are you going from "house to house" as the apostle Paul did (Acts 20:20), even as he imitated Jesus, conducting Bible studies in their homes, helping individuals to understand the "kingdom" and meet it's requirements(Rom 14:17), teaching these to how to "keep oneself without from the world" ?(James 1:27) Jesus also said that in these "last days", the vast majority would be like those in Noah's day, "eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away."(Matt 24:38,39) In Noah's day, what did the masses of people fail to 'take note of' ? That God was about to destroy their system of things by water. These never listened to Noah and hence perished during the global deluge. The same will be in our day, for Jesus said: "so the presence of the Son of man will be."(Mat 24:39)

And of the ' king's' or Jesus' brothers', who are these, in the illustration at Matthew 25:34-40 ? Did Mother Teresa help these to accomplish the global witnessing campaign that Jesus' "brorthers" are doing ?