Multi-Lingual Question

[GodsGrace]

Some time ago I've heard a critism of the bible being accurate, because of it being translated into many languages. And though I had no doubt that God can guide His word into any language and preserve it's intent and meaning, the critism got my mind thinking about studying the bible from a multi-lingual level. Has anyone here done that. Anyone here able to fluently speak another language and studied the bible in both? If I ever learn another language, I think that's something I think I'd like to do. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it too.

This thread is too long for me to read everything so I'll just say this -

I have many bibles and sometimes the publisher will change one little word that could make a difference. I find that the NASB is the most dependable for study purposes. The NIV is the best for language that is easily understandable and still intelligent and a bible called The Message is great for the young of today.

I've read the bible in Italian, which i speak fluently - was born here. (grew up in the states).
The RCC has said that every catholic that is interested should get a new bible updated in 2008.
Why?

Because their bibles were translated from the Latin Bible, The Vulgate, translated from the original Greek in the 4th century. The new translations are taken directly from the original Greek language writings.

This is important because every time you translate from one language to another, you lose something, some minute meaning that may or may not be important. So, it IS possible to change the intent and meaning - which you fear in your O.P.

If you are going to study a different language to read the bible, it should, of course, be Greek.

I mention the Catholic bibles because they've kept the same version till now.

This might explain better:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/new-american-bible-change_n_830398.html

Wondering
P.S. I just read Reba's comment on post 20. An excellent observation, of course.

 

[jasonc]

Eek a Catholic. Lol

 

[GodsGrace]

Eek a Catholic. Lol

I'm not Catholic Jason. Don't be scared!
I said I was speaking about the Catholic bible for a specific reason, to show why it's important to translate from the original Greek, which they didn't do til now.

Also, Catholics are nice people too!! Don't you know any? I know a lot. They're all over the place over here!!
Be nice to them - many are saved and born again.

W

 

[jasonc]

I'm not Catholic Jason. Don't be scared!
I said I was speaking about the Catholic bible for a specific reason, to show why it's important to translate from the original Greek, which they didn't do til now.

Also, Catholics are nice people too!! Don't you know any? I know a lot. There all over the place over here!!
Be nice to them - many are saved and born again.

W

Yes,children of Natas,lol

 

[for_his_glory]

It truly does not matter what language or translation we read the Bible in as the most important thing is that we allow the Holy Spirit teach us and give us all wisdom and understanding. I can't speak the language of the Hebrew or the Greek, but I can look up the Hebrew and Greek definitions that translates to the English. English is probably the hardest language to learn since there are so many different meanings for just one word.

 

[JohnDB]

Some time ago I've heard a critism of the bible being accurate, because of it being translated into many languages. And though I had no doubt that God can guide His word into any language and preserve it's intent and meaning, the critism got my mind thinking about studying the bible from a multi-lingual level. Has anyone here done that. Anyone here able to fluently speak another language and studied the bible in both? If I ever learn another language, I think that's something I think I'd like to do. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it too.

The Bible as we know it was originally written in Four different languages.

Hebrew and Aramaic and in koine Greek and Early Latin.

Most of these languages are heavily idiomatic and metaphorical in nature. Where there can be understanding the precise word for word translation cannot be had. Most of the nuances are lost.

That isn't to say that there wasn't a plan ahead of time by God about all of this.

A peter is a Hebrew word meaning maternal first born or "that which breaches the womb".
But Peter as we know it is the nominative of the Latin word for stone.

So yeah...God knew and had a plan and it is more intricate than most people know.

 

[JohnDB]

. English is probably the hardest language to learn since there are so many different meanings for just one word.

Define "bow" in English....how many definitions does this one word have?

 

[for_his_glory]

Define "bow" in English....how many definitions does this one word have?

Bow on your knees, bow of a boat, bow and arrow, bow tie are just a few examples from off the top of my head

 

[GodsGrace]

It truly does not matter what language or translation we read the Bible in as the most important thing is that we allow the Holy Spirit teach us and give us all wisdom and understanding. I can't speak the language of the Hebrew or the Greek, but I can look up the Hebrew and Greek definitions that translates to the English. English is probably the hardest language to learn since there are so many different meanings for just one word.

I can confirm the fact that Italian is grammatically more difficult.
English is difficult because of the pronunciation. No set rules.
Greek is more specific in using words to explain feelings or ideas - concepts.
We lose a lot when translating into any other language.

 

[GodsGrace]

How about Love?
Greek tells you exactly what kind of love and what it means in just one word.

 

[for_his_glory]

We lose a lot when translating into any other language.

I can agree with that as I only speak English and even have to look up certain English words at times

 

[GodsGrace]

I can agree with that as I only speak English and even have to look up certain English words at times

Ha! Don't we all ! That's exactly what I meant.
I never have to look up an Italian word ! It's spelled exactly like you pronounce it.
I have a slightly autistic granddaughter who writes really well (not the penmanship) because she sounds out the words and learned (16 hrs old). She might not have been able to learn to write English because you have to learn each word indiviudally.

W

 

[JohnDB]

Bow on your knees, bow of a boat, bow and arrow, bow tie are just a few examples from off the top of my head

You know that you are missing some...

Bow and ribbon that wrap presents...
Take a bow for that performance...

That wood is bowed...

 

[for_his_glory]

You know that you are missing some...

Bow and ribbon that wrap presents...
Take a bow for that performance...

That wood is bowed...

There is also the bow of threads that glide over a violin, but point being there are many definitions for just one word in the English language. I don't know about other languages.

 

[JohnDB]

There is also the bow of threads that glide over a violin, but point being there are many definitions for just one word in the English language. I don't know about other languages.

Which is the point.
Just like a single word has many definitions in English the same can be done in these ancient languages. And not any particular word in an ancient language intends the most common definitions.

Languages, when in use, we say that they are alive and growing.... meaning that the definitions shift and change over time; new words are added and definitions are added to other words.

Dead languages do not change any longer now that they are dead...but that doesn't apply to when they were in use. They once were alive. (Which is why there is a difference between Early Latin and Formal Latin and "King's Hebrew" and normal Hebrew that is used today and Old Hebrew that some of the scripture was written in.)

It's one of those things where the more you know the less you realize that you really know.

 

[for_his_glory]

Which is the point.
Just like a single word has many definitions in English the same can be done in these ancient languages. And not any particular word in an ancient language intends the most common definitions.

Languages, when in use, we say that they are alive and growing.... meaning that the definitions shift and change over time; new words are added and definitions are added to other words.

Dead languages do not change any longer now that they are dead...but that doesn't apply to when they were in use. They once were alive. (Which is why there is a difference between Early Latin and Formal Latin and "King's Hebrew" and normal Hebrew that is used today and Old Hebrew that some of the scripture was written in.)

It's one of those things where the more you know the less you realize that you really know.

That is why when it comes to understanding scripture we have to rely on the Holy Spirit to teach us.

 

[JohnDB]

That is why when it comes to understanding scripture we have to rely on the Holy Spirit to teach us.

So....
How can we rely upon a third-party's interpretation of scripture when it differs from our interpretation and that of well reasoned logical evaluation of the precise meaning of a scripture?

I've seen some really good hermeneutics applied to scripture and the vast majority of debaters of that scripture all disagree with each other AND the person who did the real work to interpret the scripture.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

So....
How can we rely upon a third-party's interpretation of scripture when it differs from our interpretation and that of well reasoned logical evaluation of the precise meaning of a scripture?

I've seen some really good hermeneutics applied to scripture and the vast majority of debaters of that scripture all disagree with each other AND the person who did the real work to interpret the scripture.

This is really why I like the idea of reading the bible from a different language. It's like reading from a different translation, and hopefully gaining something you didn't know, or missed when reading from the translation that you know more.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

This thread is too long for me to read everything so I'll just say this -

I have many bibles and sometimes the publisher will change one little word that could make a difference. I find that the NASB is the most dependable for study purposes. The NIV is the best for language that is easily understandable and still intelligent and a bible called The Message is great for the young of today.

I've read the bible in Italian, which i speak fluently - was born here. (grew up in the states).
The RCC has said that every catholic that is interested should get a new bible updated in 2008.
Why?

Because their bibles were translated from the Latin Bible, The Vulgate, translated from the original Greek in the 4th century. The new translations are taken directly from the original Greek language writings.

This is important because every time you translate from one language to another, you lose something, some minute meaning that may or may not be important. So, it IS possible to change the intent and meaning - which you fear in your O.P.

If you are going to study a different language to read the bible, it should, of course, be Greek.

I mention the Catholic bibles because they've kept the same version till now.

This might explain better:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/new-american-bible-change_n_830398.html

Wondering
P.S. I just read Reba's comment on post 20. An excellent observation, of course.

Your right of course. The best step is to study from the origional texts. There's at least Greek and Hebrew though. At least for me this is more then I expect to be able to accomplish. That said maybe I'm wrong about studing from multiple languages. Since you know both English and Italian, your more knowledgeable on the topic then I am. If it hasn't helped your understanding of the bible then that might be worth the consideration for myself. Thank you for the input.

 

[for_his_glory]

So....
How can we rely upon a third-party's interpretation of scripture when it differs from our interpretation and that of well reasoned logical evaluation of the precise meaning of a scripture?

I've seen some really good hermeneutics applied to scripture and the vast majority of debaters of that scripture all disagree with each other AND the person who did the real work to interpret the scripture.

It all depends what you mean by a third-party interpretation. Many times interpretation comes from a logical mind, but yet neglects the Spiritual truth or insight. Do we go by a majority rule teaching or is it up to each of us as an individual to do our own homework so we will not fall prey to the false doctrines that Satan loves to flood the world with as he spreads his gospel of lies. Who is right, who is wrong, who should we listen to and to whom should we avoid. Is it a dilemma, no, not if we are studying apart from what man teaches so we can hear what the Holy Spirit is teaching as apart from the Holy Spirit working through man they can teach us nothing. One has to learn how to Spiritually discern, 1John 4:1-6.