Murder In Which Degree?

[Hitch]

Is it possible to define murder,in a manner pleasing to God, outside of theonomy?


Thou dost not murder. (Young's Literal Translation )

Straight enough , but it begs the questions. How do we go about defining murder and what is/are our definition ?

 

[Tina]

Is it possible to define murder,in a manner pleasing to God, outside of theonomy?

You ask a strange question that is ambiguous and self-contradictory. God is not pleased with murder to begin with. If you need a non-biblical definition, all you have to do is check any dictionary. In the Bible, people were killing people all the time, out of rage, revenge, anger, jealousy and disobedience, which is perhaps why God saw the need to put a "Thou shalt not murder" commandment.

 

[Hitch]

You ask a strange question that is ambiguous and self-contradictory. God is not pleased with murder to begin with. If you need a non-biblical definition, all you have to do is check any dictionary. In the Bible, people were killing people all the time, out of rage, revenge, anger, jealousy and disobedience, which is perhaps why God saw the need to put a "Thou shalt not murder" commandment.

:toofunny

 

[God's_gift]

:toofunny

Hitch you seem very ammuse by Tina's answer i wonder why ...
But yes she's right and i second the motion with her when she said God is not pleased with murder. He even said in 1 John 3:15 " Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in himâ€

 

[Hitch]

Hitch you seem very ammuse by Tina's answer i wonder why ...
But yes she's right and i second the motion with her when she said God is not pleased with murder. He even said in 1 John 3:15 " Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in himâ€

Is it possible to define murder,in a manner pleasing to God,

I hope you do a better job with you voter's pamphlet.

 

[felix]

How do we go about defining murder and what is/are our definition ?

(1John 3:15) Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

 

[Hitch]

(1John 3:15) Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

I was unclear. My reference was to the act of murder.

So;

How do we go about defining the act of murder and what is/are our definition ?

 

[felix]

(1John 3:15) Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

I was unclear. My reference was to the act of murder.

So;

How do we go about defining the act of murder and what is/are our definition ?

(Matt 5:21) " You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
(Matt 5:22) "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

The act of murder = being angry without a cause.

 

[Hitch]

(Matt 5:21) " You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
(Matt 5:22) "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

The act of murder = being angry without a cause.

Ok and the corpus delicti?

 

[felix]

Ok and the corpus delicti?

I don't know what 'corpus delicti' is... so I went to Mr. Google and found the defn on Wiki (hope it is correct).

Corpus delicti (plural: corpora delicti) (Latin: "body of crime") is a term from Western jurisprudence referring to the principle that a crime must have been proven to have occurred before a person can be convicted of committing that crime. (Source: Wikipedia).

Corpus delicti has nothing to do with New Covenant Christianity. In New Covenant, the purity of being not defiled and being sinless like Christ is not about outward actions but inward thoughts as in Matt 15:18-20.

The problem I see is, you try to redefine what crime is according to what you prefer. But Christ is clear on what He says:
The act of murder = being angry without a cause = crime.

In God's judgement, no one had to prove any crimes to God our judge for He knew everything.

 

[Hitch]

I don't know what 'corpus delicti' is... so I went to Mr. Google and found the defn on Wiki (hope it is correct).

Corpus delicti (plural: corpora delicti) (Latin: "body of crime") is a term from Western jurisprudence referring to the principle that a crime must have been proven to have occurred before a person can be convicted of committing that crime. (Source: Wikipedia).

Corpus delicti has nothing to do with New Covenant Christianity. In New Covenant, the purity of being not defiled and being sinless like Christ is not about outward actions but inward thoughts as in Matt 15:18-20.

The problem I see is, you try to redefine what crime is according to what you prefer. But Christ is clear on what He says:
The act of murder = being angry without a cause = crime.

In God's judgement, no one had to prove any crimes to God our judge for He knew everything.

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny


Yeah that whlole two or three witness thing it was just for kicks.

 

[felix]

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny


Yeah that whlole two or three witness thing it was just for kicks.

Did you forget to read that I clearly mentioned 'New Covenant Christianity'? You can use old covenant but it's an abomination to God.

 

[Hitch]

Did you forget to read that I clearly mentioned 'New Covenant Christianity'? You can use old covenant but it's an abomination to God.

As kids we liked to say folks from Oz were upside down, but you're inside out Felix.

Imagine some one claiming to be a believer and fairly shouting 'Love thy neighbour' is abomination to God.

:toofunny:eeeekkk:biglol

 

[Tina]

Save for grounds of insanity or temporary insanity, I think every instance of killing and murder that happened in Biblical times and that is still happening today stems from the root cause of anger, hatred, jealousy, rebellion and revenge. That is why the Bible nags at us to forgive, forgive and forgive ..... :nag

 

[Hitch]

Save for grounds of insanity or temporary insanity, I think every instance of killing and murder that happened in Biblical times and that is still happening today stems from the root cause of anger, hatred, jealousy, rebellion and revenge. That is why the Bible nags at us to forgive, forgive and forgive ..... :nag

True enough but the question is;


How do we go about defining [the act of ] murder and what is/are our definition ?

 

[Tina]

How do we go about defining [the act of ] murder and what is/are our definition ?

Biblical or non-Biblical ?

 

[Hitch]

Biblical or non-Biblical ?

Why would non-biblical matter?

 

[Tina]

But in your first post, you said "outside of theonomy".

If what you're looking for is biblical, then ample posts have addressed this issue. Literal killing of people as well as root cause which is anger and hatred.

Do you have anything else in mind ?

 

[felix]

As kids we liked to say folks from Oz were upside down, but you're inside out Felix.

Imagine some one claiming to be a believer and fairly shouting 'Love thy neighbour' is abomination to God.

:toofunny:eeeekkk:biglol

Love thy neighbour is not abomination to God, but following old covenant is an abomination. Do you know what that means?

Let me explain in simple English: A two-way road is too crowded and the govt decided to make it one way to avoid traffic problems. Now, going on opposite direction is illegal as there is a new law in place. However, going in car on that road was never illegal in both old and new laws. But, you say, some one claiming to follow the rules of govt is shouting going in car is illegal. Did I say, loving one another is abomination? In fact, the new covenant is based on it and that's the only commandment. However, following old covenant is illegal. There is a difference. Just like the two-way road explanation, the new covenant is only one way road - not about any external representations but everything is about inward thoughts.

 

[Sparkey]

Hitch, maybe compare Deut 19, Numbers 35 and Joshua 20?

They speak of Cities of Refuge and unintended murder giving several examples. I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at but maybe you'll find them helpful.

[EDIT by Sparrow] I found a link to an expository sermon entitled,

THE PLACE

OF REFUGE ​