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Muslim friend asking questions

B

bhayes

Member
Well my muslim friend and I are having a debate about our faiths and the main issue that he (and most muslim's) have is with Jesus. The questions asked were how can Jesus be man and God? Is Jesus the Son of God or God?, and how can God have a son? Also that Jesus doesn't claimed to be God but that the bible was changed from Greek and misinterpreted.
 
I know a man who spent a lot of time among Pakistanis and he found that John's First Epistle was a useful tool with regard to the questions he is asking.
 
Jesus is not the Son of God. We just use that term Son of God to denote the incarnate aspect of God. Jesus is man because he limited himself to the flesh as a mere man is limited. He's God because the flesh is just a tent.

The Koran says Jesus is Christ. And, this Christ made claims that would only be appropriate for God, such as "Before Abraham was born, I AM." Jesus did conceal his status as Christ for a while, which should not be taken as a denial that he is Christ or God. He didn't want to promote himself in the flesh, but wanted to promote God. Also, it wasn't time to openly speak about who is until time for the crucifixion.
 
Hammer said:
Jesus is not the Son of God. We just use that term Son of God to denote the incarnate aspect of God. Jesus is man because he limited himself to the flesh as a mere man is limited. He's God because the flesh is just a tent.

The Koran says Jesus is Christ. And, this Christ made claims that would only be appropriate for God, such as "Before Abraham was born, I AM." Jesus did conceal his status as Christ for a while, which should not be taken as a denial that he is Christ or God. He didn't want to promote himself in the flesh, but wanted to promote God. Also, it wasn't time to openly speak about who is until time for the crucifixion.
Click to expand...

John chapter 1 is revealing here.
 
dude watch these guys they always beat muslims in debates and explain everything good they have lots of videos
[video=youtube;Z_YLnhmVrhc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_YLnhmVrhc&feature=relmfu[/video]
 
Hammer said:
Jesus is not the Son of God. We just use that term Son of God to denote the incarnate aspect of God.
Click to expand...
According to who? Do you realize the phrase "Son of God" occurs at least 43 times in the NT?

Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? (ESV)
 
Free said:
According to who? Do you realize the phrase "Son of God" occurs at least 43 times in the NT?

Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? (ESV)
Click to expand...

The whole 'son of God' phrase can mean nothing more than 'humanity'. John was writing near the turn of the 1st century some 70 years after the death of Jesus and he is not writing a biography. John is a esoteric rendering of what the gospel may have been and certainly turn the 'son of man' or 'son of God' rendering into the Son of God - definate article.

Historically, it would be doubtful is Jesus has used this term to refer to himself in the way that John would have us accept. Quite simply, the first time he used would have been his last.
 
Dear bhayes,
Does your Moslem friend believe what the Koran has to say? Yes? Then tell him we believe in what the Holy Bible has to say, and it says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
I don't know about Unbeliever but I am somewhat protective of Islam and Muslims in the face of the vitriol directed at them by many Christians.

The Qur'an can be used just as destructively as can the Bible.
 
watchman333 said:
Dear bhayes,
Does your Moslem friend believe what the Koran has to say? Yes? Then tell him we believe in what the Holy Bible has to say, and it says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Click to expand...

That's not very helpful dude. That's basically like saying... "Well, of you believe what Eragon has to say, we believe what Harry Potter has to say, and in Harry potter it says this...[insert excerpt]" How is it that you seriously think this answers the questions the OP stated? It is a non-answer.

OP, just offer him to read the Bible, and maybe he'll get around to believing it. Tell him to have an open mind about it.
 
bhayes said:
Well my muslim friend and I are having a debate about our faiths and the main issue that he (and most muslim's) have is with Jesus.
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Interesting. My first encounter with my Muslim roomate was over this exact thing, and I wasn't prepared. I hope you will be.
bhayes said:
The questions asked were how can Jesus be man and God? Is Jesus the Son of God or God?, and how can God have a son? Also that Jesus doesn't claimed to be God but that the bible was changed from Greek and misinterpreted.
Click to expand...
The statement of the Apostle Thomas is unequivocal: "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28 This was not an exclamation of "OMG!" like today. In fact it'd be extremely offensive to hear it from a Jewish person.

But Thomas said it -- two weeks after Jesus' resurrection.

It's in Greek. It's what Thomas said. No misinterpretation.

Clearly the Sonship of Christ Jesus is a way for God to have us understand Him. God decides the extent of His explanation of Himself to us, and we don't deserve to know everything.

But it would seem shallow to me for God to give us billions of personalities and indeed separate persons, but the same nature -- and yet God is purely one Person. Such a God is too small. A God Who creates billions of persons certainly would not seem to us as if He were only one Person. God would be beyond personhood -- trans-personal.

God has corrected His creatures about His unity -- we once thought there were many gods; but God has declared He is One God. However, God has also told us He is the Father; that He is Jesus Christ; and that He is the Spirit inside us, calling us to Christ Jesus and the Father. One God; three Persons.

It is a hard thing to make sense of things God tells us. But it's not impossible.
 
heymikey80 said:
Hm, how'd you conclude a dislike of Muslims from having good arguments against their views?

I for one like my Muslim friends. I just don't particularly find their theology to be realistic. =shrug=
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I had been speaking with Julian in more than just this thread. He seems to take particular pleasure in denigrating Muslims. It was not simply that particular post that prompted the comment.
 
Ah, I had suspected there was more to it; thanks for filling in. I'm not sure what the denigration would be; but I'm reminded even denigrating someone can entrench them further in their viewpoint.

I doubt two people agree exactly over the exact solution -- but if we're to redeem people from a viewpoint, the way has to be open for them to change their views, and not entrench them.
 
bhayes said:
Well my muslim friend and I are having a debate about our faiths and the main issue that he (and most muslim's) have is with Jesus. The questions asked were how can Jesus be man and God? Is Jesus the Son of God or God?, and how can God have a son? Also that Jesus doesn't claimed to be God but that the bible was changed from Greek and misinterpreted.
Click to expand...

I believe Jesus was God in flesh. God needed to come to earth in the form of a human being, so he did so as Jesus Christ.
 
bhayes said:
Well my muslim friend and I are having a debate about our faiths and the main issue that he (and most muslim's) have is with Jesus. The questions asked were how can Jesus be man and God? Is Jesus the Son of God or God?, and how can God have a son? Also that Jesus doesn't claimed to be God but that the bible was changed from Greek and misinterpreted.
Click to expand...

Jesus does claim to be God.

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

(Joh 8:54-1 KJV)

When Jesus said "I am" He was claiming to be the one who spoke with Moses. Remember the Lord said to Moses, tell them I am has sent you. That is why the Jews pick up stones to stone Him.

He is the Son of God.

Jesus Himself said, I have come out of the Father. David also prophesied in Psalm 2 concerning the Christ.

KJV Psalm 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (Psa 2:1-12 KJV)


Solomon also speaks of God's Son.

Exodus 3:13 (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?


Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

As far as Jesus being God, many get confused because the word God is used in two different ways. The word that is translated God is "Theos," it means deity or divinity. Jesus is deity, He is divine. He IS NOT the Father. The word God is used as a name for the Father, He is divine. The Father is God, the deity, Jesus is His Son, He is also deity.

I hope that helps explain some things to your friend.
 
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