Re: Exposing the Muslim
Joudie: Who are these people that Muhammad supposedly killed anyways? What did they do? Who are they? You can't just spit out names and their deaths and expect me to sympathize.
Gary: You don't know about these beheadings and murders? I thought you studied Islam.
Me: I don't *study* it, per se. I'm just surrounded by it. I do know there was much killing and beheading, though. But since you seem to have studied it for "several years" I thought you'd be happy to give details. I also asked because you made the claim, thus the burden of proof is on you to back it up. This is just the way I see it.
Joudie: Besides, what you quoted has nothing to do with anything. Just because Muslims back then did behead people doesn't mean it justifies doing it now.
Gary: These men (and women) were alive at the same time as Muhammad. Muhammad ordered these murders. He condoned the beheadings.
Me: Yes, but there had to be a reason behind it, no? I just want to know the reason...was it out of his own bloodthirsty need to spill blood? Or did these people do something bad or commit treachery? Or what?
Joudie: ...You realize that moderate Muslims condemn this, but the terrorists promote it--
Gary: Muhammad promoted murdering and eliminating his opponents.
Me: This is similar to what I've told Carey. The Qur'an promoted war when Islam was under warfare because of it being a new religion and all. It was basically fight or be wiped out. However, during times of peace, there was tolerance. "Lakom deenakom wa lee deenie". "You have your religion and I have mine."
Joudie: I happen to be close to a heckuva lot of Muslims--which is more than you can probably say. I know what they're like. Tell me honestly, how many do you know personally?
Gary: I live amongst Muslims. Are you a Muslim? Be honest now....
Me: Living amongst Muslims and knowing Muslims personally are two different things. I can say I live amongst Indians and Hindus, but I can't say I know them personally. See?
Joudie: Have you ever read the Qur'an with an open mind, instead of a mind hard-wired into believing that everything it is going to say is disgusting, violent and untrue?
Gary: I have studied the Quran and the Hadith for several years now. Have you? If so, how come you were unaware of the murders and beheadings I mentioned?[/quote]
Me: I was not unaware that there were beheadings. I just wanted you to clarify your claims. I wanted you to give more details before I changed my mind or judged or whatever. I like details, so long as they're not horrifically boring. Or gruesome. But I digress...
I know many passages from the Qur'an by heart--in Arabic. I know many Muslims personally and have had many a religious discussion with them. They are also very open-minded and very tolerant Muslims, so it isn't like I'm being brainwashed. I also use my logic, as do several other people, Muslim and not. You have to take many things about the Qur'an into account, and I've mentioned this before many times. The time in which it was written, the people to whom it was written and why, when specific passages came down and why--it all plays a role. You can't look at this verse: "Don't take the Jews and Christians for your friends", for example, and use it today because there is no real threat from them anymore...well, not from most civilians of these religions anyways. But then, there was a real threat, a real chance of getting killed or betrayed if you befriended them. This is why tolerance is also preached. War is not condoned unless your religion is in danger. Terrorists blow this extremely out of proportion, which is why I wish they'd all drop dead, the sick freaks.
I also want to say one more thing: I swear I am not trying to promote Islam. I am not claiming it is superior to Christianity or Judaism or whatever other religion anyone can think of. All I have in mind is to show you that Islam is not what you think it is. You can go ahead and think that because it is not Christianity, Muslims are going to Hell. That's your belief, go ahead and stick with it if that is your desire.
However, it is not a religion that promotes the murder of innocents. It is not a religion that promotes violence for the sake of violence. The reason you see it so much is, first off, in America, the media is severely biased, and secondly--and unfortunately--most Muslims live in backward third-world countries, so the way they act isn't exactly civilized when their religion is insulted. Moreover, most of those who interpret the Qur'an as violent and intolerant are those who read it at a superficial level, or with a sense of biasness. The Qur'an is quite a complicated Book...not something you can study for some number of years and think you have backwards and forwards. Many theologians have spent their lives studying it and still find new ways of interpreting it and explaining it.
In conclusion, I just want to know...why do you find it so difficult to even acknowledge that maybe Islam isn't really all that bad of a religion, it just has terrible representatives? Why do you (and, mind you, I'm not talking just specifically "you" as in "Gary" but in general) seem to adamantly insist on making it out to be a terrible and demonic religion? Would it kill you if you found out it isn't?
