Must one Believe to be saved ?

[savedbygrace57]

wings:

You presume a great deal!

'It' - is that 'Abraham believed God.'

I knew you would blow it lol.. The it is the object of Abraham's Faith, Christ Righteousness, Abraham had been given Christ imputed righteousness.. Christ was Abraham's righteousness, not his act of believing..or Faith

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

How do you know

By reading your posts..

 

[Alabaster]

So yes, one must believe to be saved, but not to get saved.

So, what are you saying?

Ephesians 2:8 NLT
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.



Leave it to men to intellectually dismantle simple truths.

 

[D4Christ]

This Statement is False, not that salvation is not a gift, that part is True, but that one must reach out and accept is a lie..

The fact that one must accept salvation is true and well documented in scriptures.

Acts 28 (NLT)

28 So I want you to know that this salvation from God has also been offered to the Gentiles, and they will accept it."

Romans 10

9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.†12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 11

11 Did God’s people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves. 12 Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God’s offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it....
15 For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful.

 

[savedbygrace57]

d4:

The fact that one must accept salvation is true and well documented in scriptures.

No its False, Salvation is given, in fact the elect have salvation given them before the world began 2 tim 1:

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[Sam21]

d4:



No its False, Salvation is given, in fact the elect have salvation given them before the world began 2 tim 1:

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

A question for you,I know that you believe that the saved were called before the world and the lost are lost before the world, but why do you think that you personally are one of the saved? I am sure that many of the lost before the world think that they are saved and practice christian things, so why are you so sure that you are not just one of them,a person who was lost from the beginning of the world without any chance of salvation but just trying to be saved by doing what christians do?
Your position is faulty because you have no evidence that you are one of the elect except your opinion that you are one of the elect. Since human opinion is worth nothing to God then you could very well be eternally lost without any chance of being saved and just fooling yourself into thinking that you are one of the elect...can you prove otherwise?

 

[D4Christ]

No its False, Salvation is given, in fact the elect have salvation given them before the world began 2 tim 1:

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So are you saying the scriptures that I quoted, which plainly state that some "accepted" salvation, while others "rejected" salvation is false? The verse you quoted and misinterpreted tells us that God's plan for our salvation existed in Christ, for us, before the world began. Now the plan is clear...Christ came to offer salvation. We can either accept this gift (that we did nothing to earn) or we can reject it.

2 Tim 1:

(NLT) 9 For God saved us and called us to live a holy life. He did this, not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan from before the beginning of time—to show us his grace through Christ Jesus. 10 And now he has made all of this plain to us by the appearing of Christ Jesus, our Savior....

(NIV)9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus,...

 

[savedbygrace57]

d4:

So are you saying the scriptures that I quoted, which plainly state that some "accepted" salvation, while others "rejected" salvation is false?

Your understanding is false, the scriptures are fine, but there is nothing i can do to help your understanding..

In the mean time, Salvation, Eternal Life is Given not offered.

 

[Alabaster]

d4:

So are you saying the scriptures that I quoted, which plainly state that some "accepted" salvation, while others "rejected" salvation is false?

Your understanding is false, the scriptures are fine, but there is nothing i can do to help your understanding..

In the mean time, Salvation, Eternal Life is Given not offered.

It is given to those who choose to receive it.

 

[D4Christ]

d4:

So are you saying the scriptures that I quoted, which plainly state that some "accepted" salvation, while others "rejected" salvation is false?

Your understanding is false, the scriptures are fine, but there is nothing i can do to help your understanding..

In the mean time, Salvation, Eternal Life is Given not offered.

I think it is obvious. Scriptures state some accepted and some rejected salvation. You openly say it is false. Whether or not you admit your own discrepancy, it is in black and white for all to see.

Rom 11:
(NLT)

15 For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!

(KJV)

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

casting away: Strongs #G580: rejection, repudiation, a) to throw away from one's self, cast off, repudiate

ok....I am not confused

Blessings,
Dee

 

[savedbygrace57]

d4:

I think it is obvious. Scriptures state some accepted and some rejected salvation.

Sorry, that all in your mind. Salvation is given to those Christ died for..and its not offered to no one..

 

[Sam21]

A question for you,I know that you believe that the saved were called before the world and the lost are lost before the world, but why do you think that you personally are one of the saved? I am sure that many of the lost before the world think that they are saved and practice christian things, so why are you so sure that you are not just one of them,a person who was lost from the beginning of the world without any chance of salvation but just trying to be saved by doing what christians do?
Your position is faulty because you have no evidence that you are one of the elect except your opinion that you are one of the elect. Since human opinion is worth nothing to God then you could very well be eternally lost without any chance of being saved and just fooling yourself into thinking that you are one of the elect...can you prove otherwise?

I did not think that this one would be answered. We who are saved know that we are saved because we commited to God and accepted Jesus as Saviour(we did that)and then God forgave our sins and gave us the indwelling Holy Spirit. The born again experience is what makes one a child of God and it requires us to believe and accept Christ and God does the rest. Unless this has happened to you,you are not going to be with God regardless of your opinion that you are an elect.

 

[Alabaster]

d4:



Sorry, that all in your mind. Salvation is given to those Christ died for..and its not offered to no one..

You are a little off in your understanding, I believe. Salvation is on offer to everyone as Christ died for everyone, but only those who believe will receive it, according to the ubiquitous verse of John 3:16.

 

[D4Christ]

Sorry, that all in your mind. Salvation is given to those Christ died for..and its not offered to no one..

Christ died for everyone. Salvation is a free gift offered/given (let's not play with semantics) to all sinners. It is nothing we could do to earn to this gift. But God does not force anyone to accept his gift. It is given to those who will receive it.

2 Corin 5 (NLT)

14 Either way, Christ’s love controls us.[c] Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life.[d] 15 He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them.

Ephes 2 (NLT)

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

This clearly states one is saved when one believes. Again scriptures state that God's grace and righteousness is available to all who will receive it.

Rom 5

15 But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ. 16 And the result of God’s gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man’s sin. For Adam’s sin led to condemnation, but God’s free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins. 17 For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.

Scriptures repeat this again telling us that when we confess and believe we are saved (ie. have salvation)

Rom 10

And that message is the very message about faith that we preach: 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.

BUT...not everybody who hears the message about this free gift of salvation, will receive the message. ie...They won't accept this "free gift"

Rom 10

16 But not everyone welcomes the Good News, for Isaiah the prophet said, “Lord, who has believed our message?â€

Luke 10

16 Then he said to the disciples, “Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting od, who sent me.â€

 

[Wings]

Savedbygrace57, Elijah23, Mcgyver, Sinthesis, Montanaviking,
Warhorse, Eventide, D4Christ, Alabaster, Sam21,

wings:



I knew you would blow it lol.. The it is the object of Abraham's Faith, Christ Righteousness, Abraham had been given Christ imputed righteousness.. Christ was Abraham's righteousness, not his act of believing..or Faith

'For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him for righteousness.'
Rom 4:3

Savedbygrace,

If you are correct then I am extremely grateful to you for pointing this out, regardless of the rudeness of your manner towards me. Would you please explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

I am aware that the imputation of righteousness was the outcome of Abraham's faith, but you are saying that the imputation of righteousness came before Abraham's act of believing, is that so? If so, perhaps you would explain your reasoning a little more, so that I can see how that can be?

Thank you
In Christ
Wings

 

[D4Christ]

I am aware that the imputation of righteousness was the outcome of Abraham's faith, but you are saying that the imputation of righteousness came before Abraham's act of believing, is that so? If so, perhaps you would explain your reasoning a little more, so that I can see how that can be?

Thank you
In Christ
Wings

Hi Wings. Here is the full scripture for you to review.

Romans 4 (NLT)

Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? 2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. 3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”
4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. 5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. 6 David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it:


9 Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles?] Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! 11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith.

13 Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith.

16 So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

22 And because of Abraham’s faith, God counted him as righteous. 23 And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn’t just for Abraham’s benefit. It was recorded 24 for our benefit, too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Abraham was considered righteous before he was circumcised (an outward expression of one's faith). But he was not considered righteous before he believed.

Salvation is a free gift from God thru Christ for all sinners. Those who believe in the message--all who confess and believe in Christ--will receive this gift.

Though this gift is offered to everyone, God in His Wisdom knows some will reject His gift. But as a fair God He still offers it to everyone. It reminds me of how parents will offer their children choices, even though we know some of our kids will make the wrong choice. We all have the choice to accept (recieve) God's gift by beleiving or to reject the gift.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[stovebolts]

Savedbygrace57

You have been given an additional infraction for the below violations. One more violation and you account will be suspended indefinitely.

Post 31 Sorry, that all in your mind.
Post 21 I knew you would blow it lol..
Post 18 You say you agree but you do not do it, you deny the cross..
Post 15 Yeah, but you dont do it, you deny the cross.
Post 12 I know you do not know, all you are doing is quoting scripture without studying it ..

 

[savedbygrace57]

wings:

you are saying that the imputation of righteousness came before Abraham's act of believing, is that so?

Yes, imputed righteousness is not a response for the actions of men, but for the action of Christ having been made sin [ a sin offering] 2 cor 5:


21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

God showed Abraham that Christ was His righteousness based upon the work of Christ at the cross, even though at that time the cross was future, but in the purpose of God, Christ was slain from the foundation, so His righteousness was imputed before the foundation..

 

[D4Christ]

Hi Wings,

2 Corin 5 (NLT)

21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

Note that the verse doesn't say Christ was an offering that made us right with God, as if it our righteous was complete the moment Christ became an offering. It says could be made right, indicating the possibility of becoming right with God. (ie. prior to "becoming" you were not)

"could be made" Strongs #G1096
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

Could you be righteous because of Christ's offering? Yes. Could you not be righteous? Yes. The difference is a matter of belief. Abraham only became or was declared righteous the moment he beleive. His belief demonstated his faith, this is why he is called the father of all those who believe.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[montanaviking]

Ahh... I see now saved where you are coming from. I am relatively new to this board so, do not have a grasp on who is who quite yet. Ok, since you believe the salvation is given not offered then how do you reconcile belief? Are you saying that those that are Christians are preordained to believe? That God chose them before the foundations of the world to believe? If that is the case, then what do you do with the words "whoever' and "world." I won't write every scripture here as it takes too much time, but I refer you to John 3:15-16, Mark 8:34, Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13 to name just a few. The word here is "whosoever." The greek is actually a combo word indicating whoever or everyone that does something. Everyone that believes or whoever believes. It says nothing about whoever was chosen or everyone that is chosen. The word belief is paramount here.

Jesus told the disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Why? What was the point if we have already been chosen by God to be saved. Jesus came to take away the sin of the world. Jesus is the light of the world. Jesus died and rose so the the world might be saved. II Cor 5:19 says that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. I John 2:2 states that he was the propitiation for the whole worlds sins not just part of the worlds sins.

Titus 1:1-2 helps understand the whole concept of "electedness." God promised beforehand that eternal life would be given. Gods foreknowlege allowed him to see that man would fall and that a way would have to be provided for them to come back to him. So before the foundation of the world God already had a plan in motion.

Jesus was telling he truth when he said that the "world through him might be saved." He was also telling the truth when he said the "whoever believes on him might be saved." Whoever meaning everyone that believes on him. Not just ones chosen to believe. The bible is very clear on that belief in Christ is necessary for salvation.

Jesus told the truth when he said "He that believes on me had everlasting life." John 6:47.