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My postings. . .

Deavonreye

Deavonreye

Member
Hey all. I probably won't be posting here much from this point out. I will probably keep up in the Science section, but there really isn't any need for me to continue in other forums of debate. I just really don't want to cause anymore trouble with you all.

I've stated many points, . . . and I have read many points. I'm not sure where my life direction will go, but I can only do as I CAN. I was talking to my brother, last night, about spiritual things, and he was telling me that "I just need to pray about this" and even suggesting that I "go visit some churches". I realized that everyone has opinions, and most people believe themselves as wise and the answers given should just be followed. I attempted to tell him that I tried for years to find these types of answers, yet he was just "so sure of his advice" and kept on and on about it.

I started to realize that people are going to believe what they believe, . . . and expect others to fall in line with them, regardless of any counter point. I just sat silently and let him talk. And it is the same here. I tell of my past, and it matters not. Suggestions are given . . . as if I hadn't either thought of that already OR tried it exhaustively in the past.

So, to continue with debates is of no value, when spirituality is being discussed because "faith" really can't be convinced against. Debating the natural world [in the Science section] is different, so there I may be found.

Sorry to those I offended.
 
You are forgiven, Deavonreye!

Just remember this verse in all your struggles:

Matthew 7:7-8 NLT
“Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.
 
I can sincerely say, Deavon, that you've never offended me. In fact, I've enjoyed some very in-depth and interesting conversations with you.

You said, "I started to realize that people are going to believe what they believe, . . . and expect others to fall in line with them, regardless of any counter point. I just sat silently and let him talk. And it is the same here. I tell of my past, and it matters not. Suggestions are given . . . as if I hadn't either thought of that already OR tried it exhaustively in the past."

I am wondering exactly what you are hoping/expecting...I think we have all experienced the same thing...expecting that our own thoughts and arguments will sway another. As for your past, I understand that you have turned your back on faith. But, you are here, and you do ask questions and it's only natural that we are going to answer based out of our faith...this is a Christian forum after all. Rarely if ever do folks actually change their minds about things on any forum.

As for your past, if I remember correctly, you "came to faith" praying the "sinner's prayer" and I can't tell you how much I detest that form of Christian evangelism. Sometimes it works, yes, because God can work with anything...but I've known many who pray that prayer and then later walk away from Christianity. Perhaps someday we can discuss the whole "sinner's prayer" thing and why I think it's so counter-productive.

But, only if you want to. If you want to confine your posts here to the science section, that's fine. I don't post there, so our paths won't cross much if you stay there, so I hope that you have good conversations in there!
 
When I mentioned "the sinner's prayer", I only used that as a phrase. The Assemblies of God is far deeper than that, and preaches as such. Relationship, bible study, prayer, . . . look up the "16 fundamental truths" from their webpage. I can't demonstrate the level of my commitment to anyone here. Many will state that "I didn't believe correctly", or that "I was never actually ever saved to begin with". That's fine. People have a right to their opinions. But I know who I was. I wasn't "Joe Superchristian". But I did the best I could. Hearing nothing, I persisted. But a person can only go for so long before coming to the realization that "either they aren't good enough", or "the person being prayed to isn't hearing [for a few reasons which will remain undiscussed]. A person can only pursue a silent nothing for so long.
 
I tend to feel the same. Debating or arguing with a religious person seems to remind me of arguing with my dad about politics. Quite possibly the most annoying experience you could ever come by. His mind is set, he's not going to change it. When you bring up valid topics, he states something his friend said over and over again and tries to yell over you so you can't reply.

Odd thing is I avoid talking to my dad about politics now.. no matter how many times he says Obama is the antichrist when someone mentions his name. But, I'll still come to forums like this to read some of the topics.. and I'll always leave with the thought "What the heck?" in my head, EVERY TIME. The contradictions (This is evil! Oh, thats similar.. BUT ITS HOLY!) (Mythological creatures? Lies. Oh, but those ones in the bible are real!)

Most religious people tend to come off as arrogant or hardheaded to me. I have been maybe a bit hardheaded the last few years.. But they seem to feel like they know everything about God and his creation because God wrote everything about everything he ever did in the Bible.

The thought of a humble religious person talking to me feels good.. Haven't met many of those. :o
 
Deavonreye, I won't say that you weren't a Christian...I know that many hold to the idea that "once saved, always saved", but I don't (a topic for a different discussion). I respect when you state that you were a Christian. I do believe, from what I've seen of your posts, that you've never truly experienced the Holy Spirit. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I'm only going by the few discussions we've had.

I'll probably get into trouble here...forgive me all my AofG friends, but I worked for an Assembly of God church for almost 13 years. I've always struggled with their approach to Christianity. Not knocking the sincerity, I know and have known many very sincere AofG Christians, many who are on fire with the Lord. But, I do have issues with how they approach the gospel and the Holy Spirit. I just do. And, so many of the people that I have personally known who have lost faith, came out of an Assembly of God background. Just stating what is truth in my own walk here. In the AofG that I worked for, two of the pastors, both of the directors of the pre-school and three members of the church that I personally knew, all left the faith. My "best friend" in 7th grade, who shared the gospel with me, her family was Assembly of God. A family of 8 people, all faithful Aof G members. As of now, she is the ONLY one out of the family who still has faith. Her father passed away 10 years ago, all the rest have fallen away. I could go on, but I won't. Again, I have many Aof G friends and know many who are on fire for God...but I don't view the Aof G as the most stable of denominations.

You are right, a person can and should pursue a silent nothing for only so long. If you are basically saying that your prayers only hit the ceiling, so be it. If there are reasons as to why God isn't hearing your prayers, and you don't want to discuss those reasons I can only respect your decision not to.

TaemJ, hopefully you can understand that the road goes both ways. I'm sure as Christians have tried to bring up to you valid (from the standpoint of faith) reasons why to believe and you reject those reasons, they might feel the same sense of frustration with you as well. Arguing about the gospel is the most counter-productive thing anyone can do...but human beings are prone to arguing...its in our nature, so as long as there are differeing pov's there will be arguments.
 
Deavonreye, I do not believe I've had any discussions with you. I don't believe I've had any confrontations with you either and that says a lot. :yes You may have gotten more out of your church experience that you realize.

But let it be known that most Christians sites like ours are a source of Christian social networking. Many of us may seek out sites like this to not only teach and preach the Gospel, but see sites like this as a place of refuge from the many secular sites.

It's a comfort zone for many of us. There's no doubt some may get defensive and feel threatened when their comfort zone is threatened. LOL Nonetheless, it's where many of us decided we'd rather be.

Anyway, if anyone feels we don't represent Christianity in the way we ought to, remember, the only true representation one can be assured of, can only be found in a relationship with Jesus, because it's His faith in us that is the one and only Truth that counts for anything.

I pray you experience that relationship one day. :pray
 
TaemJ said:
I tend to feel the same. Debating or arguing with a religious person seems to remind me of arguing with my dad about politics. Quite possibly the most annoying experience you could ever come by. His mind is set, he's not going to change it. When you bring up valid topics, he states something his friend said over and over again and tries to yell over you so you can't reply.

Odd thing is I avoid talking to my dad about politics now.. no matter how many times he says Obama is the antichrist when someone mentions his name. But, I'll still come to forums like this to read some of the topics.. and I'll always leave with the thought "What the heck?" in my head, EVERY TIME. The contradictions (This is evil! Oh, thats similar.. BUT ITS HOLY!) (Mythological creatures? Lies. Oh, but those ones in the bible are real!)

Most religious people tend to come off as arrogant or hardheaded to me. I have been maybe a bit hardheaded the last few years.. But they seem to feel like they know everything about God and his creation because God wrote everything about everything he ever did in the Bible.

The thought of a humble religious person talking to me feels good.. Haven't met many of those. :o
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It's hard to fill a cup that is already full.

I guess the answer is, . . . let people believe what they will, and do the best you can to live right regardless of what others may say.
 
handy said:
Deavonreye, I won't say that you weren't a Christian...I know that many hold to the idea that "once saved, always saved", but I don't (a topic for a different discussion). I respect when you state that you were a Christian. I do believe, from what I've seen of your posts, that you've never truly experienced the Holy Spirit. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I'm only going by the few discussions we've had.
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No, I never did experience the holy spirit, when I was in the AG. I felt the teachings were . . . . silly. I am sorry if that offends anyone. To "hear funny words in your head and speak them" to show evidence of the indwelling of the holy spirit makes no sense. It is supposed to be "a gift", . . . and "your spirit speaking in its own language", . . . so why would a person need some "indwelling" if their spirit already knows that language? And of what value is babbling "when you may not know what to say", when god should already KNOW your needs? The concept is ridiculous to me.

handy said:
You are right, a person can and should pursue a silent nothing for only so long. If you are basically saying that your prayers only hit the ceiling, so be it. If there are reasons as to why God isn't hearing your prayers, and you don't want to discuss those reasons I can only respect your decision not to.
Click to expand...

I saw no reason. Just never had any feeling that there was anything or anyone besides myself.
 
Deavonreye said:
No, I never did experience the holy spirit, when I was in the AG. I felt the teachings were . . . . silly. I am sorry if that offends anyone. To "hear funny words in your head and speak them" to show evidence of the indwelling of the holy spirit makes no sense. It is supposed to be "a gift", . . . and "your spirit speaking in its own language", . . . so why would a person need some "indwelling" if their spirit already knows that language? And of what value is babbling "when you may not know what to say", when god should already KNOW your needs? The concept is ridiculous to me.
Click to expand...

Perhaps asking these questions of your leaders would have helped you.

Tongues is the language the spirit speaks.
 
Yes, that was what I was told. But it is useless to me. I saw too many "tongues" and "interpretations of tongues" in my many years in the church. It was disruptive, and often times, two people would start "interpreting it" at the same time, with both starting out different than the next. It is just people believing that something was happening, and the [forgive my boldness] gullibility of the congregation to believe that these people were actually "being used".

It just isn't of any value to me.
 
Deavonreye said:
Yes, that was what I was told. But it is useless to me. I saw too many "tongues" and "interpretations of tongues" in my many years in the church. It was disruptive, and often times, two people would start "interpreting it" at the same time, with both starting out different than the next. It is just people believing that something was happening, and the [forgive my boldness] gullibility of the congregation to believe that these people were actually "being used".

It just isn't of any value to me.
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Deavon, I haven't read alot of your posts but have you considered a congregation that does not speak in tongues? Maybe that would more suit your preferences.

God bless, Westtexas
 
Thanks for the suggestion, . . . and I am most certainly going to be looking for that which doesn't have this type of belief. ;)
 
Deavonreye said:
Thanks for the suggestion, . . . and I am most certainly going to be looking for that which doesn't have this type of belief. ;)
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while i am charismatic and if that happened i would not bother listening to the intepretation as that cant be from god.

God isnt an author of confusion. thus sigh the need to read the word yourself
 
westtexas said:
Deavon, I haven't read alot of your posts but have you considered a congregation that does not speak in tongues? Maybe that would more suit your preferences.

God bless, Westtexas
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That is good advice Ray. If I even felt a tug so strong against something my congregation taught and and held at such a high standard, I'd consider it a conviction of the Spirit and would have to leave. This type of dissension, if one chooses to stay, is more damaging to the believer than it is to the congregation.
 
Deavonreye,

I hear your frustration. I’ve been in your shoes…somewhat. When I was growing up we were very involved with our church. We attended Sunday services without fail. There was no excuse that could prevent us from attending services. I was a member of the church choir. I attended catechism classes. I served as an altar boy. We celebrated my first communion and my confirmation. I remember every year throughout the season of Lent, going to church services every day, to spend time on our knees reciting the rosary. My parents didn’t force this on me but I chose to go. I can remember every evening us kids would get down on our knees on the living room floor to recite our prayers before going to bed. God and church was a big part of our life.

Then I went through a period of doubt. I began to question what I had learned. The Sunday services became mundane and repetitive affairs where we read the same service over and over from a book and it seemed without purpose. I recently attended a Catholic service (30 years later) and I was still able to recite the entire mass from memory including the priest’s words. The prayers I had learned to recite by heart became meaningless words and phrases. I began to look at things from a more scientific approach rather than a spiritual one.

I wasn’t ready to totally deny that there was a god but I wasn’t able to resign myself to admit there was either. I guess I became agnostic. I think I felt that by not totally denying God I kept some kind of security blanket to cover the “what if†scenario. I know now that was a false understanding. I began to get involved with alcohol and drugs and the party scene and friends became my purpose. My girlfriend was an atheist and when my brother got married I told my uncle that my brother’s kids would be married before me. Five months later I was married with a child on the way. That marriage began to fail within two years and ended in divorce after seven. I went through some very tough periods of depression and suicidal tendencies.

Like you I began to look for “signs†or “hard evidence†from God. I guess I wanted to know in my heart that He existed but I was resisting the Holy Spirit. Then one day I was awakened and my life was changed. I pray that you do not give up on God. When the day comes and you finally surrender and open up your heart and mind the Holy Spirit it will be glorious! May the Lord bless you and grant you His peace. Amen
 
WIP, I appreciate your story. Life can be full of ups and downs.

However, I resist nothing. I am an open book, . . . but never found anything of value choosing to write in it. The metaphorical pages were just as blank as the nothing I talked about before. I believe it was because I was attempting to follow a religion that was taught to me. I feel that there are MANY people who fall into this catagory, even if they don't realize it themselves. Expectations of clergy and family often direct a person's life outside of what could be real for them.

But in today's time, there are other factors [not to be discussed here] that are usable in determining what is actually true. Long held religious dogma, dictating "truth" to society due to its power, is losing ground as fields of science discover more evidence. . . and the internet has become a venue unseen before in the history of the planet, . . . the ability to share information quickly, that which would have taken much more effort and knowledge to know/find. The actual truth is coming to light and in this people must make a choice. All I am doing is looking. If "the truth" is powerful enough [and it should be], then I will not be able to be proven wrong when it [the truth] is found, understood, and acted upon.

Thanks for the responses.
 
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