My shoes have no souls

[InquisitiveSkeptic]

Yes in the scientific sense, but unlike animals we have a soul.

this quote gives me a question in wich a whole new thread is viable.



Why do we have a soul, yet everything else id denied one? a number of possibilites emerge

hes wrong
souls emerge from an arbiturary sense
souls emerge from intelligence
souls dont exist.

 

[oi_antz]

My beliefs give equal "right" to have a soul by acknowledging that every single entity of life (plants, cells, insects, mammals) have a consciousness. Plants have been proven to have consciousness and capacity to feel "at home" in their surroundings, they can thrive and suffer and they are personally affected by how we regard them (spiritually discerned, not spiritually perceptive).

The human is the one who took the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it is only the human who asks questions like this because in taking the fruit from the tree, we took something out of the world that was critical to it's balance of perfection. Hence, the humans are incapable of possessing the full truth, and we spend a large part of our lives being absorbed by our questions of what is the truth?

You'd have heard that God had a plan to mop up the mess, Jesus sees it so clearly He shares some of God's plan with His disciples - as much as we need to go about His business.

Once Jesus returns, the resolution and re-balancing of existence is completed and He rules the world as God incarnate - humans have invited Him into our garden for the second time, and this time He will never be taken out again.

Praise be to The Lord.

 

[sheshisown]

These are interesting thoughts about the make-up of God's creation.

But no matter how interesting the ideas are, we must reconcile our imaginations with the word of God, or we will surely stray from what we who are saved from deceit can surely know~ even now~ today. That is the absolute truth. :D

There are three parts to humanity. We were made in the image of God~ Who exists as a Triune Being (Three separate <yet One> Being(s) ) Okay~ He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yes?

We are Body, Soul, and Spirit~ BEFORE re-birth in Christ. And after we are born-again, we are Spirit, Soul, and Body last and least...

Souls, yes animals have them, a soul consists of more than an awareness of being, and well being. A soul has a personality, a temperament, an emotional make-up, and a relate-ability.

Now~ a human being has been ...breathed into. By the breath of God given a spirit. Adam took his first breath by Gods mouth. No other creature made by the Eternal Living God was fashioned this way. Only of human man does God say, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." And all the human race has been equipped ever since~ Eve taken from Adam along with all humankind received the same gift of a spirit.

Humans require a purpose... and a past... and a future... How many cats do you know who are deeply concerned about where they came from, or where they are going when they die? Do they even consider their death before it arrives at all? Other than the close scrapes they may have with it momentarily, I do not suppose they dwell on the thought at all. Is our dog wondering about, who he is~ or what does his life mean ultimately? :o

We see once we lay it out openly~ and ask the questions that arise naturally from what we know is real~ that animals and humans and perhaps plants as well have different kinds of life. Humans are eternal made in the "image" of the Eternal One. Animals are temporal. And plants are probably even less "alive" in the sense of relationship anyway~

My shoes have great soles~ good for treading upon. My animals have tender souls I am careful not to tread upon~ and my fellow human beings have souls and some have spirits that are alive from the dead! Many still move as mere soulish-bodies through life~ without connection to their Creator at all, without hope in the world. I fear not to tread upon the same path they take... but I take journeys along side them and seek to reveal to their soul the spirit within.
The spirit able to receive eternal breath~ if they only will... :yes

sheshisown :shades

 

[InquisitiveSkeptic]

These are interesting thoughts about the make-up of God's creation.

But no matter how interesting the ideas are, we must reconcile our imaginations with the word of God, or we will surely stray from what we who are saved from deceit can surely know~ even now~ today. That is the absolute truth. :D

There are three parts to humanity. We were made in the image of God~ Who exists as a Triune Being (Three separate <yet One> Being(s) ) Okay~ He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yes?

We are Body, Soul, and Spirit~ BEFORE re-birth in Christ. And after we are born-again, we are Spirit, Soul, and Body last and least...

Souls, yes animals have them, a soul consists of more than an awareness of being, and well being. A soul has a personality, a temperament, an emotional make-up, and a relate-ability.

Now~ a human being has been ...breathed into. By the breath of God given a spirit. Adam took his first breath by Gods mouth. No other creature made by the Eternal Living God was fashioned this way. Only of human man does God say, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." And all the human race has been equipped ever since~ Eve taken from Adam along with all humankind received the same gift of a spirit.

Humans require a purpose... and a past... and a future... How many cats do you know who are deeply concerned about where they came from, or where they are going when they die? Do they even consider their death before it arrives at all? Other than the close scrapes they may have with it momentarily, I do not suppose they dwell on the thought at all. Is our dog wondering about, who he is~ or what does his life mean ultimately? :o

We see once we lay it out openly~ and ask the questions that arise naturally from what we know is real~ that animals and humans and perhaps plants as well have different kinds of life. Humans are eternal made in the "image" of the Eternal One. Animals are temporal. And plants are probably even less "alive" in the sense of relationship anyway~

My shoes have great soles~ good for treading upon. My animals have tender souls I am careful not to tread upon~ and my fellow human beings have souls and some have spirits that are alive from the dead! Many still move as mere soulish-bodies through life~ without connection to their Creator at all, without hope in the world. I fear not to tread upon the same path they take... but I take journeys along side them and seek to reveal to their soul the spirit within.
The spirit able to receive eternal breath~ if they only will... :yes

sheshisown :shades

What is a soul?

Many christians believe that humans have souls, and animals do not. i find this interesting. I will articulate my points with dogs as a central example.


A dog has many of the same features as we humans are. He has 2 eyes, 2 ears, a nose a mouth a brain, he will get angry if you taunt him, he will get excited if you play with him, he will whimper if your cruel to him. He will even become jealous if you present something to another dog and withold it from him.

Humans and dogs are not so different, we both respond to stimuli, We both have nervous systems that enable us to feel and sense, We both want food, sex and recreation. The central diference between humans and dogs, the only difference that doesnt seem superficial is that whereas a dogs brain is evolved to distinguish sense, a humans brain is evolved to plan and probolem solve.

We're not more evolved, just differently evolved. and beause your a creationist, im going to reitterate my point in a style more suitable for you. think of it this way, God didnt create us with a better brain than a dogs, just a different one suited to an alltogether different task.

That being the case, what superiority can humans claim to dogs?

Why, if there is a god, would he favour us with eternal life and cheat the dog. Why create something that can think and feel if you only intend to destroy it and leave no trace of it? It seems rather arbitrary that humans have souls and dogs do not. And the only stuff worth mentioning, besides the superficcial things like dogs have tails and we dont, is that we are more intelligent.

Is the soul therefore a byproduct of intellect?

Then do babies, people with brain damage and learning disabilities lack souls? perhaps intelligence is the byproduct of the soul? Then why is it modern neuro science can provoide naturalistic explenations for human intellect? and why does damage to the brain often involve damage to the intellect?

Are intellect and soul mutually exclusive? then for what reason are humans granted souls that are denied to other life forms? And if dogs do turn out to have souls, then at what level of conciousness does the soul emerge? do ameboas and single cellular organisms have souls? do rocks? pebbles? my keyboard? grass? termites? atoms? electrons? protons? neutrons? Quarks?

When did I get my soul exactly?

i was created when the genetic matter of my parents came together to create a foetus that became a baby, child, teen, and adult. Im a living thing that emerged from 2 living things who emerged from 4 living things who emerged from 8 and so on and so on. You can keep going back to millions of years ago in the primordeal soup, or 6 thousand years ago when adam and eve where created.

Either way, all living things came from othr living things. except from the living things? do sperm and egg contain little soul seeds or half souls that when braught together bloom into a full real soul? Or does god send the soul personally to each foetus in the womb?

What about animals that posess hive conciousnesses? bees, ants? do they have one soul between them or lots of individual souls? and what about us? arent humans made from billions of cells? wouldnt it suck to die and find out your now just a cluster of millions of little cell souls? doesnt each cell have a soul? die and find out your conciousness isnt going to heaven and that each of your cells go to heaven idividually?

WHAT about our various stages in life? what if a man is a christian and converts to islam at 45 and dies at 46? assuming christianity is correct he will face hell for rejecting christ. So if the soul is part of the intellect did the soul change its mind? If so we have to admit that soul and intellect are connected and that means that babies and people with severe mental handicaps and brain damage dont have souls. or atleast no mechanism in wich to make the descision that will decide the fate of their soul.

alternatively, if the soul is seperate from the intellect then why is the soul punished for what the intellect does? if my intellect decides to kill 37 people with a stapler then why should my soul be sent to hell for that? If god decides when we die, why kill that man at 46 when hes a muslim and not at 45 when he was a christian? and if god doesnt decide and its all random then what is the point of this test we are all enduring?

Its not a test, its mostly luck. its a crapshoot. If a christian happens to die when hes having a moment of doubt about jesus would he go to hell for that? thats so random. one minute hes fit for heaven the next hes not? how does that make any sense? An atheist is a day away from converting to christianity when hes shot in the head by a mugger. he goes to hell because the arbitrary date of his death was 1 day too early?


nothing about the idea of souls makes any sense. they are either completely inexplicable, completely cruel or completely arbitrary. is there any such thing as a soul to begin with? You have never seen it, you dont know where you got it. dont know what it does or what its for. its entire existance and eternal fate rests on your descisions. but all modern neuro science shows that descisions emminate from your brain, your neuro network. not from a mysterious force that resides nebulessly within our bodies.

Its time we humble ourselves before nature and drop our conceeded notions of superiority and immortality.

 

[stovebolts]

Hello InquisitiveSkeptic,

My oh my do you know how to pile on the questions on pile them on you do! If I were to have the time, I would certainly answer most of them to the best of my ability, but alas I simply don't have that much time currently at my disposal to take on such a task as you've presented.

But if I could, I would certainly like to ask you a few questions and if you have the time, I would probably enjoy reading your thoughts.

Do you think that there is an rythmic order to the things around you, or is it all simply chaos? Is it likely, as in planet of the apes where dogs will outsmart humans, as attested by my dog who's figured out how to grab the door handle and turn it with his teeth?

But more importantly, do you believe in a soul, and if so, how would you define it?

I would be very interested in your reply, and thank you for considering to answer these most elementary of questions.

Thanks!

 

[Vic C.]

Interesting topic. I will quote a thought-provoking statement by C.S. Lewis:

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
C. S. Lewis

 

[sheshisown]

First, the Bible teaches that humans are made up of both body and spirit. Life begins when the two are united and life ends when the two are separated. Further~ scripture consistently teaches that humans have an immaterial part that will last forever. It is not possible for the soul (or spirit) to be destroyed. :o

When judgment was pronounced on Adam for sinning against the Lord, it was his body that was judged to go back to its original elements. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return. Genesis 3:19

BUT~ Adam's spirit was not judged to return to dust because it was breathed into Adam by the breath of God. :yes And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Genesis 2:7

What is most important about the this eternal part of human beings is this: There is not a word in the Bible teaching that the spirit can be annihilated or become extinct. :nag So~ the body of Adam became dust but his spirit went elsewhere.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Here we clearly hear the bible teaching continual life of the spirit ~ after the body dies. :shades
So again, the Bible teaches that the spirit (or soul) cannot be annihilated. Though the body may die, the spirit will live on... Death, then is not the end of conscious life. It is the separation of the body and the spirit. But the spirit lives on in another realm. The body is only the temporary dwelling place of human beings.

Are animals eternal like people are?

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of humans; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. Ecclesiastes 3:11

Animals have little awareness of anything outside their own urges, but people have hearts that imagine realms beyond~ why? Because God has set eternity in every single heart. :heart

Jesus said;
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

Destroy has the idea of punish ~ not annihilate. The destruction of the soul means separation from the life of God. Though still living the soul of the unbeliever~ who has finally rejected Jesus Christ has no longer any connection to God. :verysad

But here is the BEST news! Jesus promised eternal life to those who believe in Him.

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection" and the life. Those who believe in Me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this? John 11:25,26.

Each day~ we each have a choice to make~ [which no animal can make ~ because no animal thinks about choosing, let alone can discern anything beyond this short sad life.] ~ I urge you to choose LIFE! Choose to believe in Jesus! He is the Way to eternal life for you. :D

sheshisown~

 

[InquisitiveSkeptic]

Hello InquisitiveSkeptic,

My oh my do you know how to pile on the questions on pile them on you do! If I were to have the time, I would certainly answer most of them to the best of my ability, but alas I simply don't have that much time currently at my disposal to take on such a task as you've presented.

But if I could, I would certainly like to ask you a few questions and if you have the time, I would probably enjoy reading your thoughts.

Do you think that there is an rythmic order to the things around you, or is it all simply chaos? Is it likely, as in planet of the apes where dogs will outsmart humans, as attested by my dog who's figured out how to grab the door handle and turn it with his teeth?

But more importantly, do you believe in a soul, and if so, how would you define it?

I would be very interested in your reply, and thank you for considering to answer these most elementary of questions.

Thanks!

I hope your planning on a long read my friend,

Do i believe in chaos? I assume chaos to be chaos. wich is govorned entirely by chance as no order can become of it. A chaotic universe is where the laws of physics are nill. where energy runs rampant and because of this matter cannot be stable. however, we have stable matter. the matter doesnt behave as according to chance. We dont see water as H20 and H7O50 or something random, rather we see water as uniform molecules.

Now i should dive into statistical thermodynamics very loosely. A DNA strand is calculated to have an exceptionally low probability of occuring by chance. A gene is typically 1000 or more base pairs long, and there is some space in between, so 256 genes would amount to about 300,000 bases of DNA. The deoxyribose in the DNA' determines the direction in which it will spiral. Since organic molecules can be generated in both forms, the chance of obtaining all one form or another in 300,000 bases is one in two to the 300,000 power. This is about one in 10 to the 90,000 power. 1/1*10^90,000

that makes life very much impossible, doesnt it?... or does it.

well, this is a basic introduction to statistical thermodynamics.

lets look at probability for a second.

If i have a 10*10 grid, what is the probability that I take a symbol and place it in a correct square at random?

the probability is 1/100

if i leave it there and place a second object at random, the probability of putting it in the right place would be 1/99

if i take both of the symbols and place them at random, the probability becomes 1/100 * 1/99 wich is 1/9900. similarly if i take 3 symbols and do the same the probability of placing them all correctly is 1/1.03*10^6. or 1 in a million.

100 symbols?

to place them all correctly at random would be a probability of 1/1*10^157. thats like me giving you one attempt a day. It would take you nierly 150 years to do, placing it at random.

why am i mentioning this?

well.. if i took a rock as an example that rock is made of trillions of atoms. what are the chances that that atom got there? then what are the chances that all the atoms in that rock ended up in that specific configuration?

well, we ssume the rock is made of 4 trillion atoms. merely placing 1 atom would land you with such a low probability that it would take you longer than the age of the universe to get it right by random attempts.

so does this prove that rocks are so improbable god must have done it?

well, no.

Almost all mollecules are nierly impossible. but the system must exist in a state somewhere. Now, in a universe govorned by chance, not only would there not really be life... even water would be a rare occurence. and the molecules not uniform. as it is, chemicals are govorned by chemistry. more specifically the electromagnetic force in electrons between atoms.

what has all this got to do with anything?

well, chaos is chance gone rampant to my belief, because chaos doesnt do what you expect it to do. same as chance. chaos would dictate that if i drop a ball it could go flying off anywhere, in any direction at any speed. in order, it falls to the ground due to gravity.

instead of molecules being rare occurences and near impossible, in order molecules are all over the place

instead of rampant energy, in order we have matter. because arent atoms improbable? of course. quantum physics studys the very small and therefore it doesnt calculate with certian values. quantum physics is an area of science that dabbles in improbability. look up quantum tunneling and probability clouds.

does it mean there are laws? no. there are only laws we impose. in an ordered universe there is only consiquence to an action. like infa red hitting a surface.. its not a law the surface gets heated up, but its a consiquence of the infa red giving the surface energy. and the loss of energy for the infa red beam is a consiquence of giving that energy away.

can dogs outsmart humans?

no. dogs brains distinguish sense. im not saying they dont learn to use a door handle. We plan and probolem solve as humans and dont need much brainpower to figure out a door. but how much brainpower did the dog use in relitive comparison? alot more because that dog did something its brain hasnt evolved to do. now, the only way we can reach the situation similar to planet of the apes is to give the dogs a sense of intellect equivelent to ours. Wether we exploit evolution to accomplish it or do a wierd surgery i dont know. but that would make a kind of super dog.

can dogs outsmart humans, no
can super dogs outsmart humans? If the are smart enough then yes.

do i believe in souls?

nope. because as i have found them inconsistent with the bible and themselves i am forced to not believe in them. I have therefore decided to humble myself before nature. I do not believe I am a superior being to any other. I have intelligence, the cheetah has speed and the elephant has strength. We are not superior. just different and suited to an alltogether different task to another animal. i define a soul as what? as my previous statement said,

they are either completely inexplicable, completely cruel or completely arbitrary. You have never seen it, you dont know where you got it. dont know what it does or what its for. its entire existance and eternal fate rests on your descisions. but all modern neuro science shows that descisions emminate from your brain, your neuro network. not from a mysterious force that resides nebulessly within our bodies.

the question what do i define a soul as? I define it as a conceptual entity. a metaphar. I have begun to regard all religeous entities as metaphars.

Do i define a soul? and my answer is simply.

no.

 

[Evointrinsic]

I too am interesting in finding out what everyone really considers a soul to be. I've heard some people simply say "consciousness" But I can list a few species that are self conscious as well. Is there any other definitions of a soul? I've read the topic but have yet to find a specific definition other than possibly "life" in which case then wouldn't everything organic have a soul in this sense?

 

[InquisitiveSkeptic]

I too am interesting in finding out what everyone really considers a soul to be. I've heard some people simply say "consciousness" But I can list a few species that are self conscious as well. Is there any other definitions of a soul? I've read the topic but have yet to find a specific definition other than possibly "life" in which case then wouldn't everything organic have a soul in this sense?

correct. The point is that the logic behind souls is simply garbled nonsense. There are no other definitions for the soul. We are not immortal, no part of us is. We should humble ourselves before the rest of finite nature and drop our notions of superiority and immortality. We are as finite as the universe around us. For we are part of the universe we exist in.

 

[oi_antz]

]We should humble ourselves before the rest of finite nature and drop our notions of superiority and immortality. We are as finite as the universe around us. For we are part of the universe we exist in.

Ah yes, but it is a preference for Christians to humble themselves to the infinite God, whose spirit does live forever, even Jesus' spirit who does in fact present Himself to us in times of need. Matthew 17:3 where Jesus stood with Elijah and Moses shows us in fact that the human does possess eternal life, which is consistent with the gospel message and certain reports from those who are resuscitated from death. I think you're on the right track InquisitiveSkeptic, humbling yourself is definitely the right approach when seeking a relationship with The Lord.

 

[oi_antz]

When did I get my soul exactly?

I think your particular soul is already obvious to your mind, however the souls of your marrow are oblivious to your mind, they do know they have a finite time to live and a purpose to serve (making your blood cells), so I would suggest "your soul" (your conscious mind) was given to you at birth and you've been quite aware of it all the way through life, even if not being aware of the person who granted it to you. We are all testifying here that you can become aware of the person who granted you a soul if you will merely come to accept that this person ("God") has provided ample example of His personality as everlasting word of truth ("The Bible") so that we can know Him and worship Him as the source of all goodness.

Once you have overcome your hurdles and accepted that The Bible is The Word of God (think what it means to be God's word - His answer to your every question about Him), then you've sufficiently humbled yourself to accept the truth from God's point of view. It's unclear to me what hurdles you have with accepting The Bible, I bet there's more than one hurdle, but in context of your whole life and the potential anyone has to believe even the most unbelievable idea, I think you can overcome it like others have done.

I would suggest randomly reading The Bible from any page and posting to us any problems you have with accepting what it says, it could just be that you have an incapacity at your present stage of growth to accept a part of the truth and you'll just need to let it simmer until the penny drops, or tackle it and draw the right explanation through discussion.

 

[stovebolts]

InquisitiveSkeptic,

Thanks for the lenghty reply, though I admit to knowing nothing about half of what you wrote when it came to the mathmatics etc, but I trust that you know what you are talking about, so I accept that as truth from you.

Although you didn't directly address my question about 'stuff' having a rythmic order, I take it that you do believe their to be a semblance of predictability as attested by knowing that when one drops that rubber ball, it goes downward until it hits the surface below, then bounces accordingly.

People have been looking around for thousands of years asking the same questions and seeking to understand where they might fit within this rythmic order of the world that surrounds us and it was through that lense that much of the Bible was written. For example, when God tells Adam to name the animals, what Adam realizes though what he is about to experience, is his relationship as well as his relation to the other living creatures around him. This can be quantified by the appropriate names which the animals were called.

There are many, many examples of this within the Bible...

One observation that the Ancients noticed, was that animals are different than plants, and not only are plants different from other plants, but animals are also different than other animals, yet all are analagous to some degree, so it was never a matter of being superior, but rather a perspective of where one stood in the world around them with the belief that something bigger escaped our comprehension.

When it came to describing and naming animals, it was noticed that animals also had 'living souls' for a soul was simply an animal that was able to breath.

Like science tries to do today in it's search for "How was this all created", the Ancients, who were in tune and very aware of their surroundings discovered that something bigger than themselves did exist, and it was through this one entity that everything was created. They called this entity God.

If you dwindled it all down to the question, "Where did it all start", what would you say?

Because I believe that everything was created by this single source, then it was deduced by the ancients as well that this single source was indeed present in everything, including themsleves. They called this single source the spirit, because just like the wind, it was everywhere and everything depended on it because without the wind, everyone knows life on earth would certainly come to an end as we know it and Chaos would follow.

So the scriptures state,
Ecc3:18 I also thought to myself, “It is for the sake of people, so God can clearly show them that they are like animals.

3:19 For the fate of humans and the fate of animals are the same: As one dies, so dies the other; both have the same breath.

There is no advantage for humans over animals, for both are fleeting.

3:20 Both go to the same place, both come from the dust, and to dust both return.

3:21 Who really knows if the human spirit ascends upward,and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?

3:22 So I perceived there is nothing better than for people to enjoy their work, because that is their reward; for who can show them what the future holds?

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi all:

What is a soul ? The soul is unique, in that only mankind has a soul. The purpose of the soul, is for mankind to understand and comprehend the spiritual words that God himself transfers to mankind.

When someone sins, it is the soul that sins. Every human being is given the spirit of man. After one dies, the spirit of man goes back to the giver ,whom gave it. However, the soul goes to the grave with the body when one dies. The soul dies as well.

While the soul, and the body are still alive, the spirit of man remains with a human being. God talks to mankind by way of his Spirit. Spirit talks to spirit, the spirit of man. The soul comprehends what is being told to the spirit of man. Because of this, man has no excuses by which the soul can not comprehend the Spirit of God unto mankind. The soul is then the comprehension of what God has told to the spirit of man. Before Cain slew his brother Able, God told him that if his countenance falls, and if he did not do good ( doest not well) sin lies at the door.. The soul comprehends the words of God, that God presented unto Cain. When that which is comprehended is disobeyed, one goes against that which they comprehend. In order for one to accomplish this, one has to first lie unto one's self. This is called self justification.

It is the soul that comprehends, and thus , it is the soul that sins.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi all:

What is a soul ? The soul is unique, in that only mankind has a soul.

I believe scripture would clearly, and easily disagree with you in this regard. However, this is not the debate forum, but if you would prefer to debate this topic on on one, I would be more than happy to engage in a debate with you on this topic.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi all:

What is a soul ? The soul is unique, in that only mankind has a soul.

I believe scripture would clearly, and easily disagree with you in this regard. However, this is not the debate forum, but if you would prefer to debate this topic on on one, I would be more than happy to engage in a debate with you on this topic.

Hi Jeff:

I will leave this up to you. However, I am not sure that I will be able to give this topic the time and effort that it derserves. We could try and see how it goes. However, at this time I will make no promises that I can not keep.

I always look for a reason for there to be fruit within any conversation. Maybe this might be possible within a discussion/debate, but I believe it might not be highly expected.

So I leave it up to you as to how , where and when. Just ring the bell at my front door. :D

 

[InquisitiveSkeptic]

When did I get my soul exactly?

I think your particular soul is already obvious to your mind, however the souls of your marrow are oblivious to your mind, they do know they have a finite time to live and a purpose to serve (making your blood cells), so I would suggest "your soul" (your conscious mind) was given to you at birth and you've been quite aware of it all the way through life, even if not being aware of the person who granted it to you. We are all testifying here that you can become aware of the person who granted you a soul if you will merely come to accept that this person ("God") has provided ample example of His personality as everlasting word of truth ("The Bible") so that we can know Him and worship Him as the source of all goodness.

Once you have overcome your hurdles and accepted that The Bible is The Word of God (think what it means to be God's word - His answer to your every question about Him), then you've sufficiently humbled yourself to accept the truth from God's point of view. It's unclear to me what hurdles you have with accepting The Bible, I bet there's more than one hurdle, but in context of your whole life and the potential anyone has to believe even the most unbelievable idea, I think you can overcome it like others have done.

I would suggest randomly reading The Bible from any page and posting to us any problems you have with accepting what it says, it could just be that you have an incapacity at your present stage of growth to accept a part of the truth and you'll just need to let it simmer until the penny drops, or tackle it and draw the right explanation through discussion.

Please, stay relevant to the topic. Me reading the bible, accepting god is not going to answer the question about souls. that question was made with information from the bible in mind. I have read the bible and found it to be nonsense. Is god as he is described in EXO 15:3 or how he is described in ROM 15:33? Is earth how its described in ISA 40:22? or how its deascribed in MAT 4:8?

and what where jesuses last words?
those in MAT 27:46,50?
those in LUK 23:46?
those in JOH 19:30?

You wonder what solidified my aprehention? Its the confusion when I read the bible. What books do i follow and why did they include so many lies about it? As is known, the bible is eye witness accounts. it was written by man. And judging by how many different versions of the christian god I see within people in the same area, I judge that god exists only in the mind of those who believe.

This is my reasoning, if you wish to say otherwise on it, dont say so on here. Invite me to a 1 on 1 debate thread. we can sort it there.
thankyou.