Mystery Babylon

[zone]

Possibly.
But that would mean that the 7 mounds of dirt are completely separate group of 7 from the 7 heads of the beast.
Because the 7 heads are said to be kings of which some have fallen.
Both Jerusalem and Rome still sit on 7 mounds of dirt, so none of them have fallen.

And if the 7 mounds of dirt are separate from the 7 heads, that would mean that the names of blasphemy are only on the 7 heads of the beast, and not the 7 mounds of dirt.

Revelation 13
(1) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
​

And this verse does seem to indicate that the 7 mountains are one and the same as the 7 heads.

Revelation 17
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
​

I don't know for certain, Doc. But right now I'm compelled to lean toward the view that the 7 heads are one and the same as the 7 mountains.

i thank God we have reasonable people discussing God's Word reasonably.
hi sissy!
where'd you come from?? LOL!

here's food for thought.
i think if we misunderstand Daniel we have problems:

The ten horn beast kingdom is mentioned in Daniel 7:7 as being the fourth beast in his vision. That fourth beast is the Roman empire without question. It is a fact the Catholic Church took on the identity of the Roman Empire and today papal Rome carries by inheritance any and all rebuke and judgment of God against Rome. Papal Rome will always be in league with the antichrist in Israel. The future antichrist to come to Jerusalem will have Papal blessings and authority. The ten horns then are understood to be ten kings, rulers, or emperors that would rule during the time of the Messiah. We start the first of the ten with Caesar Augustus and indeed he is mentioned with the birth of Jesus. He is the first horn or power of the fourth beast that has to do with the Messianic fulfillment. If we then count the next ten emperors we end up with Titus who destroyed the temple and Jerusalem in fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24.

The seven heads are not mentioned in Daniel and are first found in Revelation 12:3 and 13:1. These seven must reign at the same time of the fourth beast and the ten horns or emperors. The beast with seven heads and ten horns is not an endtime event and it is NOT THE ROMAN EMPIRE REVIVED! The second beast that comes up AFTER the first beast ends is the endtime event. The second beast is not the European Common Market because there are more than ten nations in that federation. The Seven heads are not the seven hills of Rome. The seven heads are Jerusalem which we will now prove.

Seven Heads And Ten Horns

at least you guys are in the meat.
i'm still battling Charismatics!!! LOL! still having to defend the FAITH! lol.

hi Doc....
if you want real good food for your soul go here tonight or tomorrow (pick one, or all and let the Spirit FILL YOU TO OVERFLOWING..love yer best cyber bud, z):

Phil Johnson - The Heart of the Gospel

 

[JudaicChristian]

Hey JC.

Just tell me how this can be Rome>>>

11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.​

Your mixing up your scriptures.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Here is scripture to prove that I am correct. Mystery Babylon The Great is destroyed and sinks below the ocean, never to rise again, never to be inhabited again. Such is not the case for Israel. That is why Jerusalem can not possibly be Mystery Babylon.

Joel 3:20
Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem through all generations.

Zechariah 14:11
It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

And here is Mystery Babylon.

Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:
"With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.

 

[Strangelove]

Here is scripture to prove that I am correct. Mystery Babylon The Great is destroyed and sinks below the ocean, never to rise again, never to be inhabited again. Such is not the case for Israel. That is why Jerusalem can not possibly be Mystery Babylon.

Joel 3:20
Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem through all generations.

Zechariah 14:11
It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

And here is Mystery Babylon.

Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:
"With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.

1) Whay cant Zechariah 14:11 be talking about ACTUAL ancient Babylonia?

2) Rev 18:21 is talking about the final destruction of Babylon the Great (Jerusalem)

3) How can Rome be Babylon the Great by your same reasoning?

 

[Strangelove]

Your mixing up your scriptures.

Maybe but can you explain why?

 

[JudaicChristian]

1) Whay cant Zechariah 14:11 be talking about ACTUAL ancient Babylonia?

2) Rev 18:21 is talking about the final destruction of Babylon the Great (Jerusalem)

3) How can Rome be Babylon the Great by your same reasoning?

Your words are for spreading on the garden. I am not going to chase fowl for you.

 

[Sissy]

i thank God we have reasonable people discussing God's Word reasonably.
hi sissy!
where'd you come from?? LOL!

Hey, great to be here!
Lots of great discussion going on!

But don't get too excited about me just yet! (hehe!)
I do not view MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS as Rome.
I strongly believe it to be Jerusalem.

Mainly because we are told it is best to search scripture to find out if the apostles (or anyone else) is telling the truth. That would include what John has written in Revelation.
And I find in scripture the wording and phrases used of Babylon the Great to match that said of Jerusalem in scripture.
What I don't find in scripture is any of the same wording of Babylon the Great to describe Rome.

In other words, we are not told to search history books; and we are not told to peek in the widows of the RCC to see if their guys might be wearing the same colors.
We are told to search scripture.

While I certainly value history (it is my 2nd favorite subject to study), I am a real scripture stickler when it comes to interpreting scripture.

Many men have attempted to use history and current events as the means of their interpreting scripture, and their interpretation failed.
I mean, just look at Hal Lindsey's book The Late Great Planet Earth. That was a real blockbuster at the time (the 70's).
But it is practically a book of fiction now because so much of what he expected to happen did not happen.
I don't intend to fall into the same trap as they.

That being said, I'll certainly talk about history, current events, and such as being a "possible" scenario that may fit.
But in the end it will be scripture, and scripture alone, that determines my conclusions.
Everything else is just a "maybe".

 

[JudaicChristian]

i thank God we have reasonable people discussing God's Word reasonably.
hi sissy!
where'd you come from?? LOL!

here's food for thought.
i think if we misunderstand Daniel we have problems:

The ten horn beast kingdom is mentioned in Daniel 7:7 as being the fourth beast in his vision. That fourth beast is the Roman empire without question. It is a fact the Catholic Church took on the identity of the Roman Empire and today papal Rome carries by inheritance any and all rebuke and judgment of God against Rome. Papal Rome will always be in league with the antichrist in Israel. The future antichrist to come to Jerusalem will have Papal blessings and authority. The ten horns then are understood to be ten kings, rulers, or emperors that would rule during the time of the Messiah. We start the first of the ten with Caesar Augustus and indeed he is mentioned with the birth of Jesus. He is the first horn or power of the fourth beast that has to do with the Messianic fulfillment. If we then count the next ten emperors we end up with Titus who destroyed the temple and Jerusalem in fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24.

The seven heads are not mentioned in Daniel and are first found in Revelation 12:3 and 13:1. These seven must reign at the same time of the fourth beast and the ten horns or emperors. The beast with seven heads and ten horns is not an endtime event and it is NOT THE ROMAN EMPIRE REVIVED! The second beast that comes up AFTER the first beast ends is the endtime event. The second beast is not the European Common Market because there are more than ten nations in that federation. The Seven heads are not the seven hills of Rome. The seven heads are Jerusalem which we will now prove.

Seven Heads And Ten Horns

[/COLOR]

Such a great multitude of errors. You must be here to deceive Christians.

 

[Strangelove]

Such a great multitude of errors. You must be here to deceive Christians.

Your words are for spreading on the garden. I am not going to chase fowl for you.

Your mixing up your scriptures.

Not exactly learned responses to our questions JC.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Daniel, chapter 8 commentary. http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?b=27&c=8&com=wes

 

[Sissy]

Here is scripture to prove that I am correct. Mystery Babylon The Great is destroyed and sinks below the ocean, never to rise again, never to be inhabited again. Such is not the case for Israel. That is why Jerusalem can not possibly be Mystery Babylon.

Joel 3:20
Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem through all generations.

Zechariah 14:11
It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

And here is Mystery Babylon.

Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:
"With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.

Sorry, I’m afraid it does not prove you correct.

Amos 9
(8) Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
​

What is being destroyed is the apostate harlot kingdom, to make way for the kingdom where only righteousness dwells.

Likewise, the apostate harlot Jerusalem will be destroyed, to make way for the Jerusalem where only righteousness dwells.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Sorry, I’m afraid it does not prove you correct.

Amos 9
(8) Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
​

What is being destroyed is the apostate harlot kingdom, to make way for the kingdom where only righteousness dwells.

Likewise, the apostate harlot Jerusalem will be destroyed, to make way for the Jerusalem where only righteousness dwells.

You must need sleep. Read all of Amos when you have time.
Daniel, chapter 8 commentary. http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=wes&b=27&c=8

 

[Sissy]

You must need sleep. Read all of Amos when you have time.

At my age I could always use a nap.

And I have read all of Amos many times.
It hasn't made 9:8 go away.

 

[Thranduil]

Well another fine example of someone who can't be proven wrong because he/she believes they're omniscient!
Okay JC, you have NEVER answered sissy's original question about what literature you used to back up Larkin's claims.
You have the audacity to claim you are correct, and that you state facts, when in truth you are clearly what you have accused others to be in this thread;
One who is here to deceive and spread falsehood with information you give without backing it up with CREDIBLE sources.

You insist that your opinion is undeniable truth and that your interpretation and understanding of scripture cannot be questioned.

I have yet to read ANYTHING you post without finding it extremely flawed.

My hat is off to Doc, zone, and sissy for PROVING they do their homework.

Jerusalem is clearly the Harlot Babylon.

And when is everybody going to start paying attention to the fact that this earth, and this heaven, (therefore this Jerusalem) get burned up at the coming of the Lord who brings with him, a NEW earth, NEW heaven, and NEW JERUSALEM<<this is where the righteous dwell forever and will never be destroyed.

I'm always reminded of Jesus turning to his disciples and asking them why they're so dull, as in dim witted, and not thinking to clearly or paying attention.

By the way, Rome is not the location of the Vatican, Vatican City is, and just because it sits across the river doesn't make it Kansas City<CLUE Kansas City is in two separate states; KEY word SEPARATE.

 

[Vic C.]

Mainly because we are told it is best to search scripture to find out if the apostles (or anyone else) is telling the truth. That would include what John has written in Revelation.

And I find in scripture the wording and phrases used of Babylon the Great to match that said of Jerusalem in scripture.
What I don't find in scripture is any of the same wording of Babylon the Great to describe Rome.

In other words, we are not told to search history books; and we are not told to peek in the widows of the RCC to see if their guys might be wearing the same colors.

We are told to search scripture.

I wholeheartedly agree. From cover to cover of the Bible, the obvious answer is right there, in front of us.

ONLY if one needs additional information, should one look elsewhere. But with the overwhelming evidence in Scripture pointing to Jerusalem and it's inhabitants, no additional searching is needed.

And when is everybody going to start paying attention to the fact that this earth, and this heaven, (therefore this Jerusalem) get burned up at the coming of the Lord who brings with him, a NEW earth, NEW heaven, and NEW JERUSALEM<<this is where the righteous dwell forever and will never be destroyed.

Precisely! That fact is overlooked much of the time. Out with the corrupt old and in with the Godly new!

 

[Thranduil]

i thank God we have reasonable people discussing God's Word reasonably.
hi sissy!
where'd you come from?? LOL!

here's food for thought.
i think if we misunderstand Daniel we have problems:

The ten horn beast kingdom is mentioned in Daniel 7:7 as being the fourth beast in his vision. That fourth beast is the Roman empire without question. It is a fact the Catholic Church took on the identity of the Roman Empire and today papal Rome carries by inheritance any and all rebuke and judgment of God against Rome. Papal Rome will always be in league with the antichrist in Israel. The future antichrist to come to Jerusalem will have Papal blessings and authority. The ten horns then are understood to be ten kings, rulers, or emperors that would rule during the time of the Messiah. We start the first of the ten with Caesar Augustus and indeed he is mentioned with the birth of Jesus. He is the first horn or power of the fourth beast that has to do with the Messianic fulfillment. If we then count the next ten emperors we end up with Titus who destroyed the temple and Jerusalem in fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24.

The seven heads are not mentioned in Daniel and are first found in Revelation 12:3 and 13:1. These seven must reign at the same time of the fourth beast and the ten horns or emperors. The beast with seven heads and ten horns is not an endtime event and it is NOT THE ROMAN EMPIRE REVIVED! The second beast that comes up AFTER the first beast ends is the endtime event. The second beast is not the European Common Market because there are more than ten nations in that federation. The Seven heads are not the seven hills of Rome. The seven heads are Jerusalem which we will now prove.

Seven Heads And Ten Horns

at least you guys are in the meat.
i'm still battling Charismatics!!! LOL! still having to defend the FAITH! lol.

hi Doc....
if you want real good food for your soul go here tonight or tomorrow (pick one, or all and let the Spirit FILL YOU TO OVERFLOWING..love yer best cyber bud, z):

Phil Johnson - The Heart of the Gospel

zone,
first I love you and agree 99.999999% of the time with you and admire your knowledge and backing it up as you do.

I underlined and made bold the statement you made about the book of Daniel;
food for thought. This is what the Holy Spirit pointed out to me:
First beast has a head (it may not say so but does it have to, perhaps keeping secrets is God's intent?) That's one head.
Second beast has a head it has a mouth. That's two heads accounted for.
Third beast clearly has 4 heads. Now we're up to six heads accounted for.
Fourth beast has ten horns on its head, that's seven heads and ten horns accounted for.
Then a little horn comes up among the ten (Number 11) and does what? Uproots 3 of the 10, that leaves 7 horns plus the one<8th king.
As I said, just food for thought.

 

[Strangelove]

JC it's not too late to change you mind on Babylon the Great.



........or to change your mind about your username....







........or your avatar.....



Just sayin'

 

[JudaicChristian]

All I have to say is, that it must be God's will that you guys believe that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon. I'm done talking about it.

 

[Sissy]

First beast has a head (it may not say so but does it have to, perhaps keeping secrets is God's intent?) That's one head.
Second beast has a head it has a mouth. That's two heads accounted for.
Third beast clearly has 4 heads. Now we're up to six heads accounted for.
Fourth beast has ten horns on its head, that's seven heads and ten horns accounted for.
Then a little horn comes up among the ten (Number 11) and does what? Uproots 3 of the 10, that leaves 7 horns plus the one<8th king.
As I said, just food for thought.

I like the way you think!
Look at it from every angle possible, and that is an angle I have not thought of.
So, thanks for sharing your thoughts without fear.

Something that always puzzles me is that the harlot sits on a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns.
In other words, all 7 heads and all 10 horns are present at the time the harlot is sitting on this beast.
Or, to make a long story short, all heads are present and no horns are uprooted while the harlot sits on the beast.
So, all the talk you hear about certain kings or certain emperors being destroyed in past history does not fit the beast the harlot is sitting on.

This is further evidenced that it is the 10 horns (10 kings) who desolate the harlot.

Revelation 17
(16) And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
​

So, whenever this uprooting of the 3 horns takes place, it has to be after the harlot is made desolate.

This kinda makes good sense because the harlot was not only a center of commerce, but a religious center also.
Once that center is gone, one can emerge to fill that void that has left the world in a state of chaos and woe.
And that's when we would see the little horn emerge to do his thing (fix everything).

 

[Strangelove]

All I have to say is, that it must be God's will that you guys believe that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon. I'm done talking about it.

Ok JC. We'll be praying that God will lead you to truth also.