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Nephilim

gr8grace3 said:
Just curious Edward. From my study when it comes to rational creatures, God created 2 kinds.....angels and humans. Where do you see that demons are not fallen angels in scriptures? Or where God created another thinking and reasoning creature as in the demons?
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I see in the Greek that there is one word used for angels and a different word used for demons.
 
Deborah13 said:
I see in the Greek that there is one word used for angels and a different word used for demons.
Click to expand...
I believe that all fallen angels are demons. And throughout scripture we get a sense of rank in both the elect and fallen angels. And Lots of different words to describe these angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NASB95)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
We have the prefix Arch which means that there is a rank or priority position in play here.

1... Beni(e) ha Elohim, “sons of God”......This one gets people fired up Huh?! 2..
Malak , “angel, messenger, ambassador” 3... Cherub, “cherub, an
order of angelic beings, four-winged angels, 4.... Seraphim , “an order of
angelic beings, six-winged angels” 5... Boqer kokab, “morning stars” 6... Ruach,
“spirit” (Nm. 11:25; 1 Sm. 16:14; Is. 11:2). 7... Tsava , “host, army.” 8...
Qadhosh (adjective), “holy ones.” 9... Angelos , “angel, messenger, envoy”
10.... Pneuma , “spirit.” 11.... Satan, “Satan” 12... Halel Ben Shachar,
“son of the dawn, morning star” 13... Diabolos , “the adversary, the
devil, slanderous, false accuser” 14... Archangelos , “archangel” 15... Arche
, “authority, rule, domain, principality” 16... Exousia , “authority,
right, power” 17.... Kosmokrator, “world ruler” 18... Ta pneumatikos tes
ponerias en tois epouraniois, “wicked spirit-beings in the heavenlies”

I think one scripture in particular puts it into perspective
for us that demons are in fact fallen angels.

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
 
gr8grace3 said:
I do not think that God has or ever will kill any angels. The lake of fire is their final place of existence.

We see some demons as spirits in the Bible. That does not necessarily confine them to being a spirit only and cannot manifest as something else another place. But I do believe that there are angels that can "do" more than others. So maybe a "rank and file" angel can only operate from a "spirit" perspective and other "high ranking" angels can do more.
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I don't think that God has ever killed any Angels either. He may or may not in the future, the fallen ones. I suppose we will have to wait and see for sure. There seems to be a slight bit of confusion over the definition of the term death (myself included). Is death where one loses consciousness forever and the spiritual energy (soul-spirit etc.) return to God, or perish and be non-existant? Or perhaps, (my own theory) is death really mean, total separation from God? I don't know.

As far as Angels & demons go, we do know that certain Angels (only God's?) can appear as a man because they do many times in scripture. Demons and evil spirits seem to always be looking for embodiment, someone to possess. I definitely believe that some Angels can do more than others, but I think that manifesting as a person is more fundamental, having to do with their basic makeup as a spiritual being. Otherwise, why would we see so many instances in scripture about people being possessed? Demons and/or evil spirits seem to need and seek embodiment. We're headed in the right direction here for my question brother. Ponder these thoughts and let me know what you think.
 
gr8grace3 said:
I believe that all fallen angels are demons. And throughout scripture we get a sense of rank in both the elect and fallen angels. And Lots of different words to describe these angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NASB95)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
We have the prefix Arch which means that there is a rank or priority position in play here.

1... Beni(e) ha Elohim, “sons of God”......This one gets people fired up Huh?! 2..
Malak , “angel, messenger, ambassador” 3... Cherub, “cherub, an
order of angelic beings, four-winged angels, 4.... Seraphim , “an order of
angelic beings, six-winged angels” 5... Boqer kokab, “morning stars” 6... Ruach,
“spirit” (Nm. 11:25; 1 Sm. 16:14; Is. 11:2). 7... Tsava , “host, army.” 8...
Qadhosh (adjective), “holy ones.” 9... Angelos , “angel, messenger, envoy”
10.... Pneuma , “spirit.” 11.... Satan, “Satan” 12... Halel Ben Shachar,
“son of the dawn, morning star” 13... Diabolos , “the adversary, the
devil, slanderous, false accuser” 14... Archangelos , “archangel” 15... Arche
, “authority, rule, domain, principality” 16... Exousia , “authority,
right, power” 17.... Kosmokrator, “world ruler” 18... Ta pneumatikos tes
ponerias en tois epouraniois, “wicked spirit-beings in the heavenlies”

I think one scripture in particular puts it into perspective
for us that demons are in fact fallen angels.

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Click to expand...

I disagree brother. As Deborah13 noted, there is a difference between Angels and demons/evil spirits. If the demons and evil spirits are different than Angels, where in the world did they come from? There is nothing in scripture which says...and God created demons and evil spirits. (anyone else care to take a stab at my question? Where did they come from?
 
Edward said:
I disagree brother. As Deborah13 noted, there is a difference between Angels and demons/evil spirits. If the demons and evil spirits are different than Angels, where in the world did they come from? There is nothing in scripture which says...and God created demons and evil spirits. (anyone else care to take a stab at my question? Where did they come from?
Click to expand...

I don't think I was clear in my post. I don't know that there is a difference between fallen angels and demons. I just pointed out the in the Greek there are two different words used, angels and demons.
We know the word for angel means messenger.
daimonion
aggelos
 
Deborah13 said:
I don't think I was clear in my post. I don't know that there is a difference between fallen angels and demons. I just pointed out the in the Greek there are two different words used, angels and demons.
We know the word for angel means messenger.
daimonion
aggelos
Click to expand...

I don't mean to read too much into your post, but perhaps...you are more right than you may realize? Ponder it sister. Do you think there is a difference between Angels and demons? I think there is.

Think of all the passages where evil spirits or demons are spoke of, and what they are doing...then Angels the same, even fallen Angels.

There's a difference, a big one.
 
Edward said:
I don't mean to read too much into your post, but perhaps...you are more right than you may realize? Ponder it sister. Do you think there is a difference between Angels and demons? I think there is.

Think of all the passages where evil spirits or demons are spoke of, and what they are doing...then Angels the same, even fallen Angels.

There's a difference, a big one.
Click to expand...

I've thought about it quite a bit. But I don't see anything clearly in scripture so I don't know.
Nowhere do I see a scripture that says demons are the fallen angels or that they are something different. Somethings I just think I cannot know.
 
gr8grace3 said:
I have Asked 2 times for the whereabouts of these post and have received the same response.I have looked all over and can't find them. I would also like to see them.
Click to expand...

You won't any such post or any scriptures to validate his theory.
Edward said:
I don't mean to read too much into your post, but perhaps...you are more right than you may realize? Ponder it sister. Do you think there is a difference between Angels and demons? I think there is.


Think of all the passages where evil spirits or demons are spoke of, and what they are doing...then Angels the same, even fallen Angels.



There's a difference, a big one.
Click to expand...

Many believe demons are the spirits of Nephilm after they died.
 
There seems to be a difference between unclean spirits and fallen angels.

Paul seems to have them classified.

Powers, principalities, spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places.
 
Edward said:
I don't think that God has ever killed any Angels either. He may or may not in the future, the fallen ones. I suppose we will have to wait and see for sure. There seems to be a slight bit of confusion over the definition of the term death (myself included). Is death where one loses consciousness forever and the spiritual energy (soul-spirit etc.) return to God, or perish and be non-existant? Or perhaps, (my own theory) is death really mean, total separation from God? I don't know.

As far as Angels & demons go, we do know that certain Angels (only God's?) can appear as a man because they do many times in scripture. Demons and evil spirits seem to always be looking for embodiment, someone to possess. I definitely believe that some Angels can do more than others, but I think that manifesting as a person is more fundamental, having to do with their basic makeup as a spiritual being. Otherwise, why would we see so many instances in scripture about people being possessed? Demons and/or evil spirits seem to need and seek embodiment. We're headed in the right direction here for my question brother. Ponder these thoughts and let me know what you think.
Click to expand...
While this stuff has some interest for me. I do not believe that the "who" they are is very important. It is the "what they do" that is very important.

We have all sorts of names for demons and even satan has different titles.

Demons are demons and I believe the names clue us in on different things related to these demons.

We have demons called spirits also~~
Matthew 8:16 (NASB95)
16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

If we look close, their names "denote" something to us......Here are 3 and we have their ultimate purpose in the last verse.....the one we need to pay attention to.

1)Matthew~~ 10:1 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.....unclean. Their permanent "state of being." They are always unclean.

2)Luke 7:21~~21 At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind.....evil. Their permanent "nature." They are always evil.

3) 1 Tim 4:1~~1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,.....Deceitful. Their permanent "method of operation/activity. They are always deceitful.
 
Deborah13 said:
Nowhere do I see a scripture that says demons are the fallen angels or that they are something different.
Click to expand...
"9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." (Revelation 12:9 NASB)

"...they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.” (Matthew 12:24 NASB)
 
gr8grace3 said:
While this stuff has some interest for me. I do not believe that the "who" they are is very important. It is the "what they do" that is very important.

We have all sorts of names for demons and even satan has different titles.

Demons are demons and I believe the names clue us in on different things related to these demons.

We have demons called spirits also~~
Matthew 8:16 (NASB95)
16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

If we look close, their names "denote" something to us......Here are 3 and we have their ultimate purpose in the last verse.....the one we need to pay attention to.

1)Matthew~~ 10:1 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.....unclean. Their permanent "state of being." They are always unclean.

2)Luke 7:21~~21 At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind.....evil. Their permanent "nature." They are always evil.

3) 1 Tim 4:1~~1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,.....Deceitful. Their permanent "method of operation/activity. They are always deceitful.
Click to expand...

And, behold , there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together , and could in no wise lift up herself. Luke 13:11


JLB
 
Jethro Bodine said:
"9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." (Revelation 12:9 NASB)
"...they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.” (Matthew 12:24 NASB)
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That is making an assumption.
We know that satan is an angel. The scripture is clear about that. But there is no where it says that demons are fallen angels. It simply says they are spirits and ruled by satan. :shrug

And I agree with gr8grace that what they are is not what is important. But what they do is what is relevant.
 
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Deborah13 said:
That is making an assumption.
We know that satan is an angel. The scripture is clear about that. But there is no where it says that demons are fallen angels. It simply says they are spirits and ruled by satan. :shrug

And I agree with gr8grace that what they are is not what is important. But what they do is what is irrelevant.
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What is it about "his angels were thrown down with him" that is unclear?
 
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