new age version of the rapture

[hisbeloved]

First let me begin by saying that I am full aware that there are those here that do not believe in the rapture nor that revelation pertains to us. but could you just pretend with me for a moment?

*disclaimer * when I refer to false doctrine below I am not referring to any Christian doctrine including those referred to above
and for anyone who believes in aliens this expose' is not meant to offend.

Ok where to start? Once upon a time there was a scripture that say's that there will come a time when the anti-christ will tell a great lie and propogate a great deception,it is also said in the bible that he will use great signs and wonders in the sky as tools in order to convince people of this lie.

We also know that the bible say's that satan knows when his time is short,so it stands to reason the demons know too,which to me would mean that any doctrines of demons ,such as the new age doctrines ,would be incorporating teachings into their doctrines in order to promote and set up the great deception.

I also believe that the setup of the deception includes the use of media, and movies (with skyline being the latest)
as well as all the talk of ufo's and abductions. gotta get every body acclimated and used to the idea you know.

Why do I say this? well I am going to assume that all Christians see the new age doctrine as false, since they say that we are god's,and since they all believe in channeling,it seems to be the doctrines of demons.

One of the doctrines of the new age that has come to the forefront and is being pushed ,has many names ; the great evacuation,the harvest,the ascension, and the cleansing of the earth and according to them UFO'S will be used. (not)! and BTW they claim that their information below is through channeling,( ie demons.)

Here is how some of the leaders describe these things>>>

"The people who leave the planet during the time of Earth changes do not fit in here
any longer, and they are stopping the harmony of Earth. When the time comes
that perhaps 20 million people leave the planet at one time there will be
a tremendous shift in consciousness for those who are remaining."

Barbara Marciniak, "Bringers of the Dawn"

more>>"The Great Evacuation will come upon the world very suddenly. The flash of emergency events will be as a lightning that flashes in the sky. So suddenly and so quick in its happening that it is over almost before you are aware of its presence..."

Do not be concerned nor unduly upset if you do not participate in this first temporary lift-up of souls who serve with us. This merely means that your action in the plan is elsewhere, and you will be taken for your instructions or will receive them in some other manner. Do not take any personal affront if you are not alerted or are not a participant in this first phase of our plan. Your time will come later, and these instructions are not necessary for you at this time..."

Another explanation that will be offered for the disappearance of all the believers of Jesus Christ is one of an evolutionary purge. The basic concept is that as earth and humanity is evolving into a higher spiritual consciousness, those whose thought patterns are of the past, and which hinder the evolutionary path, will appear to vanish. It is explained that these souls will be taken elsewhere to evolve at their own rate and they will miss their chance to participate with the rest of the earth's inhabitants: source>>> http://www.redmoonrising.com/newage.htm this is a Christian site,giving the quotes of various new age teachers.

This next one is where they start talking about ufo's being involved>>>

Another recurring question is, “Where will the rescued be taken?” Answers that I have received cannot be specific. Destination will depend on age as well as enlightenment level. Some will be put to sleep to lessen the trauma. Some will remain on the Ships, depending on their ability to continue in service. Some will be escorted to other planets where acclimation is possible, while others may be transferred to the tremendous city-like Mother Ships.

sources>>http://www.thenewearth.org/ASHTAR1ProjectWorldEvacuation.html
This is strictly a new age site,with their own words

Ok ,back to pretending,The rapture has happened,millions of people gone,the anti-christ steps up to answer the question "where did everybody go"
of course he will have a great number of people helping him answer this,because a great number of people are new agers.

What better way to explain, than what they have already been already been propogating through the new age lies.
It appears that even satan knows that the rapture is going to happen,after all he knows when his time is short and
he and the demons were once in heaven,plus he also knows the scriptures.

And the most blaring, is the fact, is that satan
is behind false doctrine of the new age movement,
that say's we are all god's.and has used the cunning of satan
to give an answer for where so many people went.

If there is no rapture.

Then why do you think satan has been working so hard to create
a doctrine in the new age movement that sets up the perfect lie
to tell people after the Christian rapture has happened ?
unless of course you believe the new age version.

 

[jasoncran]

contra argument.

satan also counters with people being slain in the spirit while that isnt really in the bible. i do believe in that but that doesnt mean that it is biblical.

the same could be said with the idea of the rapture. one could argue that the word or verses of the rapture is this. the end happens as the lord returns to judge men and the dead rise first and aslo we that are on the earth are instantly changed and neither leave the earth. theres a poster here that believes that.i dont i see one problem with that,i'm a mid tribber. i dont beleive the church is exempt from the wrath of satan or the anti-christ.

 

[Hitch]

Well that proves the rapture like a 'mattress balances on a bottle of wine'

 

[reba]

Ok where to start? Once upon a time there was a scripture that say's that there will come a time when the anti-christ will tell a great lie and propogate a great deception,it is also said in the bible that he will use great signs and wonders in the sky as tools in order to convince people of this lie.

Where? antichrist is only mentioned 4/5 times in scripture..

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Where are the Scriptures that say what is in the above quote?

 

[hisbeloved]

Where? antichrist is only mentioned 4/5 times in scripture..

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Where are the Scriptures that say what is in the above quote?

2nd Thess2:2-12 Now I beseech you,brethern,by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,and by our being gathered unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind,or be troubled,neither,by spirit,nor by word,nor by letter as from us,as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day will not come,except there come a falling away first,and that man of sin be revealed,the son of perdition;( notice here this is one person not just a spirit and not many)
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,or that is worshipped;so that he as God setteth in the temple as God,shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not,that,when I was yet with you,I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of inquity doth already work only he who now letteth will let,until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that wicked be revealed,whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
Even him,(notice this indicates one person)whose coming is after the workings of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
sounds like the anti-christ to me,

maybe it's just me,but when I see the words man of sin,or the wicked one,or the son of perdition
or the beast I see the antichrist.

you know, sorta like,how if I was referring to the Lily of the Valley or our Savior,
or the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords you would know that I was referring to Jesus Christ,right?

 

[reba]

We can find scripture for the different names/ titles of Jesus.

There is not a scripture that declares/states etc there is Thee Antichrist. The teaching of antichrist, as we hear it today, is just accepted as Bible truth, is it? John penned the Revelation of Christ and the Little books of John. God did not inspire John to use the term( antichrist) in The Revelation of Christ.

 

[warhorse]

First let me begin by saying that I am full aware that there are those here that do not believe in the rapture nor that revelation pertains to us. but could you just pretend with me for a moment?

*disclaimer * when I refer to false doctrine below I am not referring to any Christian doctrine including those referred to above
and for anyone who believes in aliens this expose' is not meant to offend.

Ok where to start? Once upon a time there was a scripture that say's that there will come a time when the anti-christ will tell a great lie and propogate a great deception,it is also said in the bible that he will use great signs and wonders in the sky as tools in order to convince people of this lie.

We also know that the bible say's that satan knows when his time is short,so it stands to reason the demons know too,which to me would mean that any doctrines of demons ,such as the new age doctrines ,would be incorporating teachings into their doctrines in order to promote and set up the great deception.

I also believe that the setup of the deception includes the use of media, and movies (with skyline being the latest)
as well as all the talk of ufo's and abductions. gotta get every body acclimated and used to the idea you know.

Why do I say this? well I am going to assume that all Christians see the new age doctrine as false, since they say that we are god's,and since they all believe in channeling,it seems to be the doctrines of demons.

One of the doctrines of the new age that has come to the forefront and is being pushed ,has many names ; the great evacuation,the harvest,the ascension, and the cleansing of the earth and according to them UFO'S will be used. (not)! and BTW they claim that their information below is through channeling,( ie demons.)

Here is how some of the leaders describe these things>>>

"The people who leave the planet during the time of Earth changes do not fit in here
any longer, and they are stopping the harmony of Earth. When the time comes
that perhaps 20 million people leave the planet at one time there will be
a tremendous shift in consciousness for those who are remaining."

Barbara Marciniak, "Bringers of the Dawn"

more>>"The Great Evacuation will come upon the world very suddenly. The flash of emergency events will be as a lightning that flashes in the sky. So suddenly and so quick in its happening that it is over almost before you are aware of its presence..."

Do not be concerned nor unduly upset if you do not participate in this first temporary lift-up of souls who serve with us. This merely means that your action in the plan is elsewhere, and you will be taken for your instructions or will receive them in some other manner. Do not take any personal affront if you are not alerted or are not a participant in this first phase of our plan. Your time will come later, and these instructions are not necessary for you at this time..."

Another explanation that will be offered for the disappearance of all the believers of Jesus Christ is one of an evolutionary purge. The basic concept is that as earth and humanity is evolving into a higher spiritual consciousness, those whose thought patterns are of the past, and which hinder the evolutionary path, will appear to vanish. It is explained that these souls will be taken elsewhere to evolve at their own rate and they will miss their chance to participate with the rest of the earth's inhabitants: source>>> http://www.redmoonrising.com/newage.htm this is a Christian site,giving the quotes of various new age teachers.

This next one is where they start talking about ufo's being involved>>>

Another recurring question is, “Where will the rescued be taken?” Answers that I have received cannot be specific. Destination will depend on age as well as enlightenment level. Some will be put to sleep to lessen the trauma. Some will remain on the Ships, depending on their ability to continue in service. Some will be escorted to other planets where acclimation is possible, while others may be transferred to the tremendous city-like Mother Ships.

sources>>http://www.thenewearth.org/ASHTAR1ProjectWorldEvacuation.html
This is strictly a new age site,with their own words

Ok ,back to pretending,The rapture has happened,millions of people gone,the anti-christ steps up to answer the question "where did everybody go"
of course he will have a great number of people helping him answer this,because a great number of people are new agers.

What better way to explain, than what they have already been already been propogating through the new age lies.
It appears that even satan knows that the rapture is going to happen,after all he knows when his time is short and
he and the demons were once in heaven,plus he also knows the scriptures.

And the most blaring, is the fact, is that satan
is behind false doctrine of the new age movement,
that say's we are all god's.and has used the cunning of satan
to give an answer for where so many people went.

If there is no rapture.

Then why do you think satan has been working so hard to create
a doctrine in the new age movement that sets up the perfect lie
to tell people after the Christian rapture has happened ?
unless of course you believe the new age version.

Satan already has the perfect lie in place, it is called the pre-trib theory / dispensationalism. Satan of coarse can not deceive the peaple once christ has returned. So he must do it beforehand, if he wants to be Glorified as god, then he need not fake a return prior to the lords real return, he will simply come as the islamic mahdi, to which millions of muslims are watching for now. The church will set in denial unprepared, and islam will execute satans planes ruthlessly. All the pieces are in place and our feet have already left the edge.
READY YOURSELVES.

 

[D4Christ]

hisbeloved,

I too have been acutley aware that ufo's could one day be used by Satan in the end times to decieve many. And of course there are those New Agers who think some will evolve into their new Planetary Birth and there will be those who don't involve. But instead of this being used to explain those who are raptured vs those who stay there is an even more sinister motive behind this thinking.

Barbara Marx Hubbard explains it well in her book "The Revelation." You can read excerpts of her book in Warren Smith's book "Reinventing Jesus Christ" (free online) in which he exposes the lies of the New Age movement and those in the Church who are involved with them. In the Revelation, Barbara states that those who refuse to take the next evolutionary step....to see every one as gods and Christ....must be removed from the earth which she says will result in the death of many who won't comply.

Sound familiar? It has the smell of extermination of "Christians" all over it and imho could be an example of how the Great Tribulation will go down, when Satan has permission to declare war on those who profess Christ (rev 12).

Imho there may be little need to explain the disappearances associated with the rapture because scriptures are clear that "every eye" will see Him in the clouds. From the king to the slave men will fall down in fear at the sign of the Son of Man and will openly declare in Rev 6 that the time of [God's] wrath is upon them. So it's not secret that once we are gone they will soon suffer the judgments that are unleased on the earth and that the Day of the Lord is upon them.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[freeway]

Ok. I read the opening post, Some I agree could happen, some not so sure. My Question is? What is your view, what you believe will happen to explain away the rapture, or do you believe in a rapture.. Me I'm a pretrib person.. To many things tell me the church will not be here for the tribulation.. I can see a mid trib happening, but cannot see a post trib. I'll just start with that for now...

 

[Stormcrow]

To many things tell me the church will not be here for the tribulation.

Too late: the church has been in tribulation since the stoning of Stephen (and still is). That was the point of this post:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/pre-trib-post-trib-two-tribs-35634/

Peace. Out.

 

[freeway]

Xtruth says it very nicely after your post..in that same thread..
Re: Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?

We use the term "7 Year Tribulation" b/c it is a specific truth taught in the
Word, not b/c it is in the Bible w/ that verbage. We just end up naming events
to easily identify what we are speaking of. Examples are: "Trinity," "Bible,"
Millennial Reign," "Rapture," "Second Coming," etc... none of which are in the
Word by those names, yet they are all very real.

We get the 7 Year Trib
from studying Daniel's 70th Week and Antichrist's 7 year peace covenant
(Dan.9:27). This is where the "7 Year" comes from. The "Tribulation" comes from
the use of the event described as "The Great Tribulation," which is spelled out
as such and is referring to the time of Jacob's Trouble, which is the last 3.5
years of the 70th Week of Daniel.... thus, "The 7 Year
Tribulation."

Whether you believe in the actual event of Daniel's 70th
Week (fulfilled or unfulfilled) or not, this is why you have always heard the
term, "7 Year Tribulation."

 

[freeway]

Stormcrow says:

Too late: the church has been in tribulation since the stoning of Stephen (and
still is). That was the point of this post:

Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two
Tribs?

Peace. Out.

I have no trouble admitting the church has and is going through tribulation, but it is and will be a far cry form the Great Tribulation..

 

[Stormcrow]

I have no trouble admitting the church has and is going through tribulation, but it is and will be a far cry form the Great Tribulation..

Please cite the chapter and verse which uses the words "great tribulation" as a proper noun.

 

[Stormcrow]

Xtruth says it very nicely after your post..in that same thread..
Re: Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?

And I refuted his post very nicely immediately afterward in that thread.

 

[freeway]

Sorry, no you didn't, you said alot but I did not see where you proved him wrong. Again sorry I don't see your way..

 

[freeway]

Again I re-read your post form that thread.. All I get out of the verses you put up is.. yes the church has and will have tribulation. agreed... But the Great tribulation is the fullfillment of the 70 week of daniel.

 

[freeway]

Originally Posted by freeway

I have no trouble admitting the church has and is going
through tribulation, but it is and will be a far cry form the Great
Tribulation..

Strom asks? Please cite the chapter and verse which uses the words "great tribulation" as a
proper noun

Please.. Please quote me the verse that say "trinity" but we understand what that means..

 

[Stormcrow]

Please quote me the verse that say "trinity" but we understand what that means.

So what you are saying - in effect - is that you cannot provide a verse that uses the words "great tribulation" as a proper noun, but you continue to use it to describe Daniel's "70th week" (Daniel 9:27), which isn't even about any tribulation (great or small) but a covenant; one described here?

{6} "I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, {7} To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison. {8} "I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:6-8 (NASB)

Show me anywhere in this verse - from a simple reading of the text with no doctrine applied - where there is any mention of a "seven year tribulation":

{27}Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:27 (NKJV)

Who's the "he" in that verse? (Here's a hint: the "he" is in verse 26, and he's not the object of the prepositional phrase "of the prince.")


See, the problem with the view you espouse is that it cannot be supported by scripture without both taking verses wildly out of context or applying meanings to them they never had.


Might I suggest you go back and re-read this thread again until you can grasp the implications of it.


Peace. Out.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Speaking of new age stuff, I had to take this humorous diversion and say something I remember in a video. I wish I could find it again.

However, there was an interview with a clergy man about the return of Christ. He was a middle-aged man with a cleric's collar and trim beard. He looked every bit conservative and not like a new ager or hippy. He stated with the assurance of any theologically trained person:

"I believe Christ is coming again....."

(Then after a brief pause he proceeded to say)

"I believe He's coming in ships!"

 

[Hitch]

So what you are saying - in effect - is that you cannot provide a verse that uses the words "great tribulation" as a proper noun, but you continue to use it to describe Daniel's "70th week" (Daniel 9:27), which isn't even about any tribulation (great or small) but a covenant; one described here?

{6} "I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, {7} To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison. {8} "I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:6-8 (NASB)

Show me anywhere in this verse - from a simple reading of the text with no doctrine applied - where there is any mention of a "seven year tribulation":

{27}Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:27 (NKJV)

Who's the "he" in that verse? (Here's a hint: the "he" is in verse 26, and he's not the object of the prepositional phrase "of the prince.")


See, the problem with the view you espouse is that it cannot be supported by scripture without both taking verses wildly out of context or applying meanings to them they never had.


Might I suggest you go back and re-read this thread again until you can grasp the implications of it.


Peace. Out.

Is there some other recipe for futurism?