new age version of the rapture

[hisbeloved]

Please cite the chapter and verse which uses the words "great tribulation" as a proper noun.

Hey there stormcrow,I slept alot in english class,so i sorta forgot about proper nouns,lol . also please bear in mind i am new here and i really don't know where you stand,so please forgive me now, if i have misunderstood you in any way.

you mentioned this too>>{27}Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:27 (NKJV)

you made this statement Who's the "he" in that verse? and then you hinted that it was the same person as in verse 26,which is referring to Jesus.
Does this mean that you think ,that Jesus is the one who makes the abomination of desolation?
if so, notice the definition of abomination and desolation


abomination [əˌbɒmɪˈneɪʃən]
n 1. a person or thing that is disgusting
2. an action that is vicious, vile, etc.
3. intense loathing

des·o·la·tion (d

s

-l

sh

n, d

z

-) n. 1. The act or an instance of desolating.
2. The state of being desolate.
3. Devastation; ruin:
4. a. The state of being abandoned or forsaken; loneliness:
b. Wretchedness; misery.

Did Jesus do any of these things?

ok on to my next point,or at least trying to figure out what you are saying, or where you are coming from;not your fault
just my simple mind i guess,lol





I am not sure, but it seems that you are saying that the great tribulation and the covenant made for seven years and the abomination of desolation have nothing in common,nor have to do with one another.

But notice in matt 24:15 it say's when ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place( whoso readeth,let him understand),which according to Daniel happens in the middle of the week 3 1/2years after the seven year covenant is made

it then goes on to tell what those seeing this should do.
until you come down to verse 22 where it say's

For then shall be great tribulation,such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time;no,nor ever shall be.

notice that the words "for then" are referring back to verse 15 that talks about the abomination of desolation,that happens in the middle of the week ie. seven year covenant.

when you are talking about proper nouns, it seems you are referring to the fact that because the word "The' is not in front of the words great tribulation, means that it is not a proper noun, but look at the verses after that,such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time;no nor shall ever be , does this not imply the word "The" ? therefore making great tribulation a proper noun by association without the word "The"

For example if I say, there was a great storm,no other great storm has ever been bigger before, nor will there ever be, then I am essentially
saying, that this storm is the great storm of all storms ,before or after,which places the great storm in a fixed time and sets it apart from the other storms.




.

hope to hear from you soon
love, your sis in Christ

 

[Stormcrow]

hey there stormcrow,I slept alot in english class,so i sorta forgot about proper nouns,lol .

you mentioned this too>>{27}Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." Daniel 9:27 (NKJV)

I am not sure, but it seems that you are saying that the great tribulation and the covenant made for seven years and the abomination of desolation have nothing in common,nor have to do with one another.

But notice in matt 24:15 it say's when ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place( whoso readeth,let him understand),which according to Daniel happens in the middle of the week 3 1/2years after the seven year covenant is made

it then goes on to tell what those seeing this should do.
until you come down to verse 22 where it say's
For then shall be great tribulation,such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time;no,nor ever shall be.

the words above "for then" are referring back to verse 15 that talks about the abomination of desolation,that happens in the middle of the seven year time frame.

is this talking about proper nouns,i don't know but you probably do.but it sure looks like they are in the same time frame of the seven year covenant.

All addressed here:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/pre-trib-post-trib-two-tribs-35634/

Please read the first two posts in that thread carefully. They explain what tribulation means in Matthew 24.

 

[hisbeloved]

All addressed here:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/pre-trib-post-trib-two-tribs-35634/

Please read the first two posts in that thread carefully. They explain what tribulation means in Matthew 24.

yes i went and read that post which gave me the answer regarding the proper noun, so i went and edited my post, could you please read that one, which is just above this one you posted.

especially the part about proper nouns by association. thanks

 

[warhorse]

Futurist or Preterist, ironicly both hinge on ones interpritation of Dan 9v27 and Math 24v15 And both are wrong because of the all or nothing attitude they go into it with.

 

[hisbeloved]

Futurist or Preterist, ironicly both hinge on ones interpritation of Dan 9v27 and Math 24v15 And both are wrong because of the all or nothing attitude they go into it with.

hey there warhorse,I am trying to get to know people here, your post above does not give me much to go on, so could you refer me to a thread,that would help me understand your beliefs more clearly?

thanks,your sis in Christ

 

[reba]

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Dan 9:27 And he Christ shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week Christs earthly ministry was about 3 1/2 years he Christ shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,The Vail was torn Christ was/is THEE lamb and for the overspreading of abominations he Christ shall make it temple life desolate, even until the consummation, the destruction of the temple 70 ad and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The seige of Jerusalem lasted about 3 1/2 years . They do not sacrifice any more.



Does this make sense to anyone...

 

[hisbeloved]

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Dan 9:27 And heChrist shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week Christs earthly ministry was about 3 1/2 years he Christ shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,The Vail was torn Christ was/is THEE lamb and for the overspreading of abominations he Christ shall make it temple life desolate, even until the consummation, the destruction of the temple 70 ad and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The seige of Jerusalem lasted about 3 1/2 years . They do not sacrifice any more.



Does this make sense to anyone...

Not sure Reba,because those scriptures also refer to to the abomination of desolation, so if what you say is true then your are also saying that Jesus was the one who did the abomination of desolation.

but notice the definition of those to words.
abomination [əˌbɒmɪˈneɪʃən]
n 1. a person or thing that is disgusting
2. an action that is vicious, vile, etc.
3. intense loathing

des·o·la·tion (d

s

-l

sh

n, d

z

-) n. 1. The act or an instance of desolating.
2. The state of being desolate.
3. Devastation; ruin:
4. a. The state of being abandoned or forsaken; loneliness:
b. Wretchedness; misery.

Did Jesus do or was any of these things?

 

[warhorse]

hey there warhorse,I am trying to get to know people here, your post above does not give me much to go on, so could you refer me to a thread,that would help me understand your beliefs more clearly?

thanks,your sis in Christ

see (the pros and cons of preterism) thread 117#

 

[Hitch]

Not sure Reba,because those scriptures also refer to to the abomination of desolation, so if what you say is true then your are also saying that Jesus was the one who did the abomination of desolation.

but notice the definition of those to words.
abomination [əˌbɒmɪˈneɪʃən]
n 1. a person or thing that is disgusting
2. an action that is vicious, vile, etc.
3. intense loathing

des·o·la·tion (d

s

-l

sh

n, d

z

-) n. 1. The act or an instance of desolating.
2. The state of being desolate.
3. Devastation; ruin:
4. a. The state of being abandoned or forsaken; loneliness:
b. Wretchedness; misery.

Did Jesus do or was any of these things?

Jesus was the cause that stopped the sacrfices.

 

[reba]

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

reba translation :o

and for the overspreading sins/their abominations ....Christ will make the temple way of life (it) animal/ blood sacrifices etc desolate.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
to my mind verse 26 makes my thoughts even more clear.

 

[Hitch]

The whole notion of a faked rapture is right up there with denying the holocaust.

 

[warhorse]

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

reba translation :o

and for the overspreading sins/their abominations ....Christ will make the temple way of life (it) animal/ blood sacrifices etc desolate.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
to my mind verse 26 makes my thoughts even more clear.

yep she is correct here. The vail was torn, the final sacrifice was given.

 

[hisbeloved]

The whole notion of a faked rapture is right up there with denying the holocaust.

No one is saying that there is a faked rapture,just that after the rapture happens,those left here will be told that it was not the Christian rapture that happened, but it is instead the new age version explaination that is given.

 

[hisbeloved]

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Dan 9:27 And heChrist shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week Christs earthly ministry was about 3 1/2 years he Christ shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,The Vail was torn Christ was/is THEE lamb and for the overspreading of abominations he Christ shall make it temple life desolate, even until the consummation, the destruction of the temple 70 ad and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The seige of Jerusalem lasted about 3 1/2 years . They do not sacrifice any more.



Does this make sense to anyone...

Reba, when did Jesus confirm a covenant with anybody or any group for a period of seven years?

please forgive me for all of the questions, but if you know something i don't please share.

 

[Hitch]

No one is saying that there is a faked rapture,just that after the rapture happens,those left here will be told that it was not the Christian rapture that happened, but it is instead the new age version explaination that is given.

Try Comby's Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow.

 

[freeway]

Stormcrow, Well I did it one more time, I re-read your "theory"
But I'm still puzzled and hoping you can enlighten me.. when in your theory of the tribulation by the Romans in 70 AD.. I did not know the "Euphrates" dried up as predicted as to let the king of the east enter into the Valley of Megeddo interesting.. but wait it didn't dry up.. Your hole theory is a very sad atemp to push a doctrine form Satan himself.. to make people think that there is no tribulation "7" years spoken by Daniel. Further more you quote Daniel 9:27 has your hole base for your theory. The "he" which you try to past off as Jesus, Sorry but it is the Prince of the people who is to come, Antichrist, Satan, dragon, Serpent, Beast.. pick a name...

9:24Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.9:25Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.9:26And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.9:27And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.
Jesus the Messiah was cut off, just as the bible predicted, and when did he make abominations that maketh desolate. Your theory is just that a theory that was introduced by the Jesuits back in the time of the Reformation. At that time these Jesuits where trying to say Rome was the Mystery Babylon.
Also in In Daniel 11:36 (KJV) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. What do you do about this. This proves the "he" is not Jesus... sorry you fail...

 

[reba]

Speaking only for myself not in 'this camp' or 'that camp.'

How long was the 'earthly ' ministry of Christ? 3 1/2 years

how long was the siege of Jerusalem? 3 1/2 years

Jesus told the guys THIS generation etc the siege was 70 AD at the conclusion of THAT generation.

in my pea brain Jesus/God let the generation continue as they had ... He also damnned the generation that murdered Him.

The Romans did the killing at the request of the Jewish leaders

At the same time He GAVE His life for our sin...

 

[freeway]

hisbeloved asked of Reba.


Reba, when did Jesus confirm a covenant with anybody or any group for a
period of seven years?

please forgive me for all of the questions, but if
you know something i don't please share.

Yes this is a very good question indeed. When did Jesus confirm a covenant. If I remember my bible, whenever Jesus preformed miracles during His ministry Jesus always told them do not tell anyone my time has not come.. Why would Jesus say this?

 

[Hitch]

Yes this is a very good question indeed. When did Jesus confirm a covenant. If I remember my bible, whenever Jesus preformed miracles during His ministry Jesus always told them do not tell anyone my time has not come.. Why would Jesus say this?

Presumably you have heard of the Last Supper?

 

[reba]

He gave His blood do we not the New testament the new covenant


Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;



Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.



Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,