New guy from Montana confused by rapture theories.

[Jesse17]

Hello all!

I'm new here. I've been lurking a little for the last week or so, but haven't had time to read much. I've been a baptized Christian for years but was a little self righteous and hypercritical about other Christians... ah... it's too much to explain here, but I avoided church because I thought most (or a lot) of those who attend are only there to be seen, and I didn't think it necessarily to prove my love for God. Meanwhile I was living a sinful and SELFISH life and was a poor example of a Christian. I was running my life the way I wanted it and praying for God to do my will. LOL.

My favorite saying is, "I always knew I wanted to serve God, but it turns out I was trying to do it in an advisory capacity."

Anyway, long story short... thanks to hitting my alcoholic bottom and finding AA a few years ago I saw how ungrateful and selfish I had been in my dealings with God and most others. AA taught me to be humble and allow God to run things. For the last couple years I've had a closer relationship with Him than any other time in my life. As a result of praying for His will instead of mine I've had some of the most contented times of my life. That is to say the times when I don't get selfish and try to run things myself, which I still do on occasion, until God I get miserable and forced to submit to Him.

I eventually outgrew AA. I think it's a great organisation and it saved my life by helping me find a true relationship with God, but I can't be a part of a group that gets upset when I give credit to God for that. One thing that AA has taught me is the need to fellowship with others of the same belief, and for me that is not people who use inanimate objects for their Higher Power, it's folk who believe in Christ!

I've been desperately looking for Christians to fellowship with. I work Sundays and there is only one church (a Baptist) in my rural town that has services besides Sun. morning. So I've been attending their Sun. night service for the last two months, but I think they are about to run me off if I don't become a 'church member'. I would like to be a member but they have one belief I don't share. Well, I don't know if I share it or not.

They believe in a pre-trib rapture. My wife and I (mostly my wife) have followed Arnold Murray's teachings on the TV program Shepard's Chapel for years. Since about 2001, IIRC. Well, he teaches (and my wife's animate about) a post-trib rapture... well I guess not a rapture but a transfiguration here on earth when Christ returns after the tribulation.

I say I don't know if I share the pre-trib rapture belief because I've never cared either way. I figure every generation has been convinced that they are living in the end times. I figure the odds of me being in THAT one generation are next none. Well, I guess exactly they are 1 out of (how ever many generations will ever exist). I really don't think it matters if the rapture happens or not. If I do happen to be in the last generation and the rapture happens great. If it doesn't then I guess I'll be going through the tribulation like my wife and Arnold Murray believes, but either way it will be God's will and I will still end up in heaven because of my belief in Christ the Savior.

The problem only comes when I have to believe in a pre-trib rapture to join this church, which I like quite a bit, by the way. So I've set out looking up why folk believe in pre/mid/post-trib/no rapture and I have to say, how am I suppose to make up my mind when there are so many of the great evangelist and ministers that can't agree. I mean you look up one verse and it looks like we'll be gone, but then there's another verse that looks like we'll be going through it.

Sorry for the novel, but this has really turned out to be an unexpected stumbling block for me. Any advice, comments, suggestions, etc.?

 

[abide]

Hello all!

I'm new here. I've been lurking a little for the last week or so, but haven't had time to read much. I've been a baptized Christian for years but was a little self righteous and hypercritical about other Christians... ah... it's too much to explain here, but I avoided church because I thought most (or a lot) of those who attend are only there to be seen, and I didn't think it necessarily to prove my love for God. Meanwhile I was living a sinful and SELFISH life and was a poor example of a Christian. I was running my life the way I wanted it and praying for God to do my will. LOL.

My favorite saying is, "I always knew I wanted to serve God, but it turns out I was trying to do it in an advisory capacity."

Anyway, long story short... thanks to hitting my alcoholic bottom and finding AA a few years ago I saw how ungrateful and selfish I had been in my dealings with God and most others. AA taught me to be humble and allow God to run things. For the last couple years I've had a closer relationship with Him than any other time in my life. As a result of praying for His will instead of mine I've had some of the most contented times of my life. That is to say the times when I don't get selfish and try to run things myself, which I still do on occasion, until God I get miserable and forced to submit to Him.

I eventually outgrew AA. I think it's a great organisation and it saved my life by helping me find a true relationship with God, but I can't be a part of a group that gets upset when I give credit to God for that. One thing that AA has taught me is the need to fellowship with others of the same belief, and for me that is not people who use inanimate objects for their Higher Power, it's folk who believe in Christ!

I've been desperately looking for Christians to fellowship with. I work Sundays and there is only one church (a Baptist) in my rural town that has services besides Sun. morning. So I've been attending their Sun. night service for the last two months, but I think they are about to run me off if I don't become a 'church member'. I would like to be a member but they have one belief I don't share. Well, I don't know if I share it or not.

They believe in a pre-trib rapture. My wife and I (mostly my wife) have followed Arnold Murray's teachings on the TV program Shepard's Chapel for years. Since about 2001, IIRC. Well, he teaches (and my wife's animate about) a post-trib rapture... well I guess not a rapture but a transfiguration here on earth when Christ returns after the tribulation.

I say I don't know if I share the pre-trib rapture belief because I've never cared either way. I figure every generation has been convinced that they are living in the end times. I figure the odds of me being in THAT one generation are next none. Well, I guess exactly they are 1 out of (how ever many generations will ever exist). I really don't think it matters if the rapture happens or not. If I do happen to be in the last generation and the rapture happens great. If it doesn't then I guess I'll be going through the tribulation like my wife and Arnold Murray believes, but either way it will be God's will and I will still end up in heaven because of my belief in Christ the Savior.

The problem only comes when I have to believe in a pre-trib rapture to join this church, which I like quite a bit, by the way. So I've set out looking up why folk believe in pre/mid/post-trib/no rapture and I have to say, how am I suppose to make up my mind when there are so many of the great evangelist and ministers that can't agree. I mean you look up one verse and it looks like we'll be gone, but then there's another verse that looks like we'll be going through it.

Sorry for the novel, but this has really turned out to be an unexpected stumbling block for me. Any advice, comments, suggestions, etc.?

Now that you have seen your selfishness. Ask God for wisdom.
Many churches do not believe in the pre trib rapture. This belief is not what it takes to be a Christian. Christianity is about Jesus. Find a bible believing church and God will guide you.
The most important thing is that Christ died, was ressurected and sits at the right hand of his father. All of this theology to my mind is not important. It is not what you know but what you do. The apostle never got caught up in all of this. The bible is simple just believe what is written in it.

You have experienced a lot, take one step at a time and leave the rest to God.

 

[farouk]

There are two aspects to the Lord's coming; as it relates to His coming in power and glory on earth, as various Old Testament and some New Testament passages speak of; and His coming for His church (John 14; 1 Thess. 4).

 

[AirDancer]

Welcome to CFnet, Jesse17 Hope you'll enjoy your time with us!

With regard to your post & theories, it's always been my opinion that we each must be ready daily for our Lord. None of us know the precise number of days we will have ... so we must be prepared. Our faith, the daily maturing in Christianity, cannot take back-seat to something that awaits somewhere in the unknown future. Therefore, I do not concern myself with timed trib theories.

Again, in my opinion, the 'rapture' occurs twice a year: the rapture of central air conditioning in summer....the rapture of central heat in winter. These raptures are blessings where I live :yes

Anyway... why do you believe that the church you've been attending are going to 'run' you off if you don't join? If attending only a couple of months suddenly means you have to become a member, then I'd run away from that church.

 

[TonkaTim]

My advice is to stick with what Jesus says about it in the Scriptures.

Understand that, & what Paul, John, & the Prophets say will easily conform to what Christ teaches. Any doctrine that takes pages & pages of study outside the scriptures to remotely understand is obviously flawed.

 

[Free]

Welcome to the forums Jesse17!

I tend to lean towards no rapture but I really don't know, and in the end I really don't care. Jesus will come when he comes and what will precede that will precede it, what will happen is what will happen and there is nothing that can be done to change anything. We just need to ask God for the strength to endure whatever it is we may have to endure, whether it's tribulation or persecution and martyrdom.

It's too bad that so much division has been caused by such teachings instead of people just putting their hope in Christ and going about his kingdom business--doing what Christians are supposed to be doing. It's okay to have thoughts on the matter but peoples' and churches' opinions can be too strong on some things that really aren't that clear.

If attending only a couple of months suddenly means you have to become a member, then I'd run away from that church.

I tend to agree. There should never be pressure to become a member of a church no matter how long one attends.

 

[Jesse17]

Find a bible believing church and God will guide you...The bible is simple just believe what is written in it.

Folk say that all the time and 95% of the time it's true. Most stuff you read in the Bible is pretty cut and dry as to what it means, unless you start claiming parts aren't literal but metaphorical instead. However, there are definitely (IMO) parts that while only have one true meaning, are not 'simple' two people can read a passage and come away with two different meanings. That's not even getting into the folk that are always going back to the original languages and saying "This word is better translated as..."

It's because of this that I try to check out everything myself. It's not that I think a certain preacher is trying to twist the Bible, but I simply want to make sure that he and I are interpreting God's word the same way. But when I try to look up the verses sited as 'proof' one side of the argument or the other, it's just dizzying.

With regard to your post & theories, it's always been my opinion that we each must be ready daily for our Lord. None of us know the precise number of days we will have ... so we must be prepared. Our faith, the daily maturing in Christianity, cannot take back-seat to something that awaits somewhere in the unknown future. Therefore, I do not concern myself with timed trib theories.

I couldn't agree more. That's why I've never bothered to study it enough to form an opinion one way or the other before. However, here I am wanting to attend this church, which happens to be the only one in my town with services I can attend, and I agree with everything else I've heard there, but professing of the pre-trib rapture is one of the things listed as a condition to join, and on top of that my wife refuses to even attend a service at a church that doesn't believe we'll suffer through the Great Tribulation.

Anyway... why do you believe that the church you've been attending are going to 'run' you off if you don't join? If attending only a couple of months suddenly means you have to become a member, then I'd run away from that church.

I guess I'm not being fair to them. I guess that's just a fear of mine. They haven't actually done anything to make me think that, it's just the preacher and I had a sit down after I had attended a couple services, and he questioned me about my beliefs and I about the churches. The only thing I didn't definitely agree with him on was the rapture, and like I said before I don't really have an opinion one way or the other yet. Anyway, a couple times he's rattled off reasons why the pre-trib rapture has to be true, and since the Sun. evening service is really small he spent a whole service trying to explain the end times and Daniels 70 weeks (which I still don't get), and so forth. Then after that service he asked me about having another get together.

One more thing is they don't pass the offering basket at the evening service, only the morning service, so I haven't contributed anything yet. One of the conditions of joining is to 'Regularly and joyfully contribute to support the church and the missionaries it sponsors." So maybe it's just me feeling guilty about not contributing anything yet. I have to admit that one of the 'benefits' of not having a church all these years was not having anywhere to tithe. We've given money (a lot sometimes) to Christian charities here and there, but I've never tithed a regular percentage of my income before. Though I think my wife sends as close to 10% as she can of her income to Shepard's Chapel.

Sorry to ramble on. I just really don't have any other Christians to talk to and work out these thoughts with, which is my main reason for wanting to join a church... I NEED Christians to fellowship/interact with, and have none. Thanks again for the warm welcomes and please keep talking to me.

 

[AirDancer]

Not to worry, Jesse... you're not alone... we're all here to share, to learn, and to explore the varied topics & writers of the Bible. As we study the books that comprise the Bible, and when we let our Lord do the leading, He certainly will provide insight into His words so understanding occurs.

Something special about our Lord's words: He uses those words through each of us ... and it's amazing the number of times when someone here at CFnet presents a post with reference to a particular Scripture & that ol' proverbial light bulb shines brightly as understanding blossoms.

So welcome aboard, Jesse ... we really are glad you've joined us!

 

[Shannon H]

Prov 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend

Hello, I am new to this forum myself. I used to attend a couple of Baptist Churches, I would say if you like the church, and they are preaching the scriptures, the Cross of Christ, and you are being fed, spiritually, then I would hang out awhile study what they preach, and search the scriptures to see if they preach the truth. My experience is that some Baptist Churches get a little caught up in "Baptist Doctrine" Just follow The leading of The Holy Spirit. As for the Rapture, (or resurrection) it is going to happen for sure there are many, many verses on this in the Bible, Like these for example 1Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 1Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 1Cor 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Some may argue the timing, but with careful study, and following the leading of the Holy Spirit , you will come to an understanding of the timing.