Bible Study Noah and Lot - The Ramifications of the Rapture

[ugmug]

Noah and Lot - The Ramifications of the Rapture

Once the rapture has occurred there will be a rush to figure out mankind's next move.

Lets consider that the rapture has already taken place whereby Jesus Christ will snatch up to heaven all of his believers just before mankind's final judgment. All those people who are left behind will now believe in the Old and New Testaments of the bible.

The one passage that many will cling to after the rapture is the one where Jesus said that the end days will be like the days of Noah and Lot (Matthew 24:37-43 and Luke 17:28-30 ).

In Noah's day God told Noah – the only righteous man left - to build an ark in order to protect himself from God's judgment right where he was. Whereas in Lot's day God sent two angels to warn Lot – the only righteous man left - to flee God's judgment and not stay where he was.

So here you have two different scenarios of how God will protect the only righteous man left (hint: the Jewish people). In the Noah narrative God wants the Jewish people to build an ark, meaning to rebuild the temple, for God gave Noah strict instructions and dimensions on its construction just as God did for all the biblical temples.

The other narrative of God's judgment is where God sends two angels to warn Lot and his family to flee the immorality of the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. This fleeing is indicative of all the Jewish people being warned to return to Israel where they have already begun rebuilding the temple as their ark of protection from God's impending final judgment of mankind.

So the story of Noah will be believed where the Jewish people who are left behind after the rapture begin to rebuild the temple as their ark of protection against God's final judgment during the Great Tribulation (hint: read the Book of Revelation). And the story of Lot will be believed to mean that all Jewish people MUST flee the immorality of other countries and return to Israel to protect themselves from God's final judgment of mankind (hint: read the Book of Revelation).

Of course all of this worry over God's protection after the rapture can be avoided by believing in God's only son Jesus Christ whereby you'll be included in the rapture and be taken up to heaven to completely avoid God's final judgment of mankind.

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and rest assured that you will be included in the rapture whereby the pain and misery of God's final judgment of mankind will pass all those washed in the blood of the lamb - Jesus Christ..

Note:

When God filled up the ark with animals he included all the forbidden animals of Mosaic law such as pigs or else they would have disappeared after the flood. This signifies that the rebuilt temple MUST be inclusive of all peoples left behind after the rapture. Of course this will lead to the mark of the beast 666 when the Antichrist appears and will damn all those who receive the mark to an eternity in hell.

God Bless

 

[smaller]

When positions are based on suppositions, and those suppositions are not true, they will read everything in the scriptures, forcing their suppositions upon what they "think" they are reading. What they ARE reading is their own suppositions and partial sights, provably so.

Here is what happens, in the end:

Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:9
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Do we then picture ourselves flying off into the atmosphere? I think NOT.

Jesus tells us exactly how it "comes down" in the end:

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And what we have left, are the scriptures in BLUE above, after the scriptures in red have been performed.

Flying away in the rapture? Uh, maybe not so much. Those who have believed and been gathered UP prior to the above, will come back to the earth:

Rev.21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

This CITY lands back on the "new earth" after it has been "cleansed" above.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

If some or many in Christ do "fly away" after their death, they will be making a return. But some WILL be cleansed, on earth.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Once the rapture has occurred there will be a rush to figure out mankind's next move.

Lets consider that the rapture has already taken place whereby Jesus Christ will snatch up to heaven all of his believers just before mankind's final judgment.

You keep saying things like this leaving me to wonder where you get your teachings from.

There are ten centuries between the Rapture and the Great White Throne Judgment, a.k.a. The Judgment, they are no back to back events and this yields all else useless.

 

[turnorburn]

You keep saying things like this leaving me to wonder where you get your teachings from.

There are ten centuries between the Rapture and the Great White Throne Judgment, a.k.a. The Judgment, they are no back to back events and this yields all else useless.

Maybe the church of Scientology?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Maybe the church of Scientology?

But he claims to be a Christian and they are no such animal.

 

[Jesus_Is_His_Name]

 

[Sinthesis]

All those people who are left behind will now believe in the Old and New Testaments of the bible.

In which case all those left behind would now be converted Christians who would never fall for building a new temple or taking the mark of the beast. So your scenario is moot.

 

[Jim Parker]

Once the rapture has occurred there will be a rush to figure out mankind's next move.

No there will not be any rush.
The next "move" will be the judgment of mankind.
That's what Jesus will do when He comes again, when the dead in Christ rise and those who are still awake will meet Him in the air.
Jesus isn't coming back two times. He's coming back once at the end of the age when He will judge the living and the dead.

iakov the fool

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

After the body of Christ, the Church is taken out at the rapture, the Bema seat of Christ happens in heaven, and then the marriage of the bride, the Church, and the bridegroom, Christ, happens along with a 7 years marriage feast. On earth, tribulation occurs and only 12,000 from each tribe will be sealed and survive. It is these 12,000 sealed Jews from each tribe that will make up the earthly kingdom. Then Matthew 28:19-20 happens and those 144,000 sealed Jews are the kingdom of priest that will preach to the whole world during the millennium. After this is the battle of Armageddon when those that followed Satan will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Jim Parker]

After the body of Christ, the Church is taken out at the rapture

I am familiar with that rather modern invention (1830's) and departure from valid scriptural teaching.
It preaches "good" and provides endless hours of entertainment for modern pop-theologians.
Unfortunately, it has contaminated the teaching of many denominations.

iakov the fool

 

[dirtfarmer]

I am familiar with that rather modern invention (1830's) and departure from valid scriptural teaching.
It preaches "good" and provides endless hours of entertainment for modern pop-theologians.
Unfortunately, it has contaminated the teaching of many denominations.

iakov the fool

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

Rather than give a critique of what you think about what I believe the bible teaches, how about a rebuttal proving that " the rather modern invention is a departure from valid scriptural teaching so that we may all learn.

 

[Jim Parker]

how about a rebuttal proving that " the rather modern invention is a departure from valid scriptural teaching so that we may all learn.

The "rapture" teaching which has infected much of western, Protestant dogma was unknown before the 1830s.
That is an historical fact just as much as is "Columbus sailed in 1492."
If you can show a uninterrupted line of this teaching back to apostolic times, then please do so and I will admit I am wrong.
As for proving that it was NOT taught from the beginning, that would be attempting to prove a negative which is impossible.

 

[dirtfarmer]

The "rapture" teaching which has infected much of western, Protestant dogma was unknown before the 1830s.
That is an historical fact just as much as is "Columbus sailed in 1492."
If you can show a uninterrupted line of this teaching back to apostolic times, then please do so and I will admit I am wrong.
As for proving that it was NOT taught from the beginning, that would be attempting to prove a negative which is impossible.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

John 14:3 " And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto to myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
Acts 1:10-11 " And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, ye men of Galilee,why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Now it is your turn. This was stated to the apostles, so I believe this meets your requirement.

 

[Jim Parker]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

John 14:3 " And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto to myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
Acts 1:10-11 " And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, ye men of Galilee,why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Now it is your turn. This was stated to the apostles, so I believe this meets your requirement.

I said:"The "rapture" teaching which has infected much of western, Protestant dogma was unknown before the 1830s.
That is an historical fact just as much as is "Columbus sailed in 1492."
If you can show a uninterrupted line of this teaching back to apostolic times, then please do so and I will admit I am wrong."
You responded by posting two verses which you lifted out of their contexts.
In fact, you posted absolutely nothing that shows the 1830's "rapture teaching" invented and promulgated by John Darby could traced back in an uninterrupted line to the apostolic times.
Those two verses tell indicate that there is a place in heaven for believers and that, as Jesus ascended in clouds of glory, so He will return in clouds of glory.
That is not the totality of Darby's "Rapture" teaching.
You have not responded to the challenge.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I said:"The "rapture" teaching which has infected much of western, Protestant dogma was unknown before the 1830s.
That is an historical fact just as much as is "Columbus sailed in 1492."
If you can show a uninterrupted line of this teaching back to apostolic times, then please do so and I will admit I am wrong."
You responded by posting two verses which you lifted out of their contexts.
In fact, you posted absolutely nothing that shows the 1830's "rapture teaching" invented and promulgated by John Darby could traced back in an uninterrupted line to the apostolic times.
Those two verses tell indicate that there is a place in heaven for believers and that, as Jesus ascended in clouds of glory, so He will return in clouds of glory.
That is not the totality of Darby's "Rapture" teaching.
You have not responded to the challenge.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

If you want a history of the pre-trib rapture go to essentialchristianity.com. and go down the list until you get to: History of the pre-trib and rapture. It is a site of Dr. Keith A. Sherlin BA; MTS; DD; TH.D

 

[Jim Parker]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

If you want a history of the pre-trib rapture go to essentialchristianity.com. and go down the list until you get to: History of the pre-trib and rapture. It is a site of Dr. Keith A. Sherlin BA; MTS; DD; TH.D

There were some early church fathers who believed in a literal, 1000 year millennial reign of Christ on earth. They were not the majority.
Shepherd of Hermas, which is quoted, is a highly symbolic, allegorical book and unsuited for the establishment of doctrine.
Victorinus present his speculation on the highly symbolic ecstatic visions which John attempted to render into human language in the book of revelations. He was not a representative of the teaching of the whole Christian church.
Sherlin neglects to include Victorinus' statement in his commentary on Revelation: "For He who at first came hidden in the manhood that He had undertaken, shall after a little while come to judgment manifest in majesty and glory."
Coming "in majesty and glory" is incompatible with coming in secret and the Rapture innovation teaches.

Sherlin's lists more early church writers but does not quote them so we don't know to what he was referring.

In any case, you have not shown an uninterrupted line of teaching from the apostolic times until Darby's innovations of the 1830s.
A little piece here and there does not make the whole cloth.

The "Rapture" teaching has Christ coming two more times; once to take out his church and once at the end of time.
Scripture does not say that. Scripture says He will come again in the same manner in which he ascended, in clouds of glory. (Acts 1:11)
Nowhere does scripture say and no early church father said that Jesus would come "secretly" to take His church out so that they would escape "the great tribulation."
In fact, Rev 7:14 says that the "great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!" (Rev 7:9-10) "...are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
They could not have "come out" of the great tribulation unless they had be IN the great tribulation.

The Rapture teaching says that Christ will personally reign for 1000 years on earth.
Matthew 26:18 tells us that Christ is commenced His reign prior to he ascension when he announced that all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him and Paul tells us at 1Co 12:27 that the church is the body of Christ here on earth. Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the body of Christ, His church. (Mat 16:18)
So, according to scripture, Christ IS reigning here on earth through His body the church. (Which body is doing not so hot a job.)

There have been those who believed in a 1000 year reign of Christ throughout the history of the church.
However, the ENTIRE TEACHING of the "Rapture" did not arise until the first half of the 19th century.

 

[JLB]

Noah and Lot - The Ramifications of the Rapture

Once the rapture has occurred there will be a rush to figure out mankind's next move.

Lets consider that the rapture has already taken place whereby Jesus Christ will snatch up to heaven all of his believers just before mankind's final judgment. All those people who are left behind will now believe in the Old and New Testaments of the bible.

The one passage that many will cling to after the rapture is the one where Jesus said that the end days will be like the days of Noah and Lot (Matthew 24:37-43 and Luke 17:28-30 ).

In Noah's day God told Noah – the only righteous man left - to build an ark in order to protect himself from God's judgment right where he was. Whereas in Lot's day God sent two angels to warn Lot – the only righteous man left - to flee God's judgment and not stay where he was.

So here you have two different scenarios of how God will protect the only righteous man left (hint: the Jewish people). In the Noah narrative God wants the Jewish people to build an ark, meaning to rebuild the temple, for God gave Noah strict instructions and dimensions on its construction just as God did for all the biblical temples.

The other narrative of God's judgment is where God sends two angels to warn Lot and his family to flee the immorality of the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. This fleeing is indicative of all the Jewish people being warned to return to Israel where they have already begun rebuilding the temple as their ark of protection from God's impending final judgment of mankind.

So the story of Noah will be believed where the Jewish people who are left behind after the rapture begin to rebuild the temple as their ark of protection against God's final judgment during the Great Tribulation (hint: read the Book of Revelation). And the story of Lot will be believed to mean that all Jewish people MUST flee the immorality of other countries and return to Israel to protect themselves from God's final judgment of mankind (hint: read the Book of Revelation).

Of course all of this worry over God's protection after the rapture can be avoided by believing in God's only son Jesus Christ whereby you'll be included in the rapture and be taken up to heaven to completely avoid God's final judgment of mankind.

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and rest assured that you will be included in the rapture whereby the pain and misery of God's final judgment of mankind will pass all those washed in the blood of the lamb - Jesus Christ..

Note:

When God filled up the ark with animals he included all the forbidden animals of Mosaic law such as pigs or else they would have disappeared after the flood. This signifies that the rebuilt temple MUST be inclusive of all peoples left behind after the rapture. Of course this will lead to the mark of the beast 666 when the Antichrist appears and will damn all those who receive the mark to an eternity in hell.

God Bless

I hate to break the bad news to you, but after the Rapture, there won't be any of the Lord's people left on earth, as all those who are Christ's will be with Him in the air, and the rest will be destroyed, starting with the antichrist, who will be destroyed by the brightness of His Coming.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come...
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2,8

This is the same coming by which the resurrection/rapture occurs.

Here, read it for yourself.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


All those who are Christ, with be caught up together in the clouds with Jesus Christ, as He returns to Jerusalem, to take His place on His throne as King over all the earth, and destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming.



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

There were some early church fathers who believed in a literal, 1000 year millennial reign of Christ on earth. They were not the majority.
Shepherd of Hermas, which is quoted, is a highly symbolic, allegorical book and unsuited for the establishment of doctrine.
Victorinus present his speculation on the highly symbolic ecstatic visions which John attempted to render into human language in the book of revelations. He was not a representative of the teaching of the whole Christian church.
Sherlin neglects to include Victorinus' statement in his commentary on Revelation: "For He who at first came hidden in the manhood that He had undertaken, shall after a little while come to judgment manifest in majesty and glory."
Coming "in majesty and glory" is incompatible with coming in secret and the Rapture innovation teaches.

Sherlin's lists more early church writers but does not quote them so we don't know to what he was referring.

In any case, you have not shown an uninterrupted line of teaching from the apostolic times until Darby's innovations of the 1830s.
A little piece here and there does not make the whole cloth.

The "Rapture" teaching has Christ coming two more times; once to take out his church and once at the end of time.
Scripture does not say that. Scripture says He will come again in the same manner in which he ascended, in clouds of glory. (Acts 1:11)
Nowhere does scripture say and no early church father said that Jesus would come "secretly" to take His church out so that they would escape "the great tribulation."
In fact, Rev 7:14 says that the "great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!" (Rev 7:9-10) "...are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
They could not have "come out" of the great tribulation unless they had be IN the great tribulation.

The Rapture teaching says that Christ will personally reign for 1000 years on earth.
Matthew 26:18 tells us that Christ is commenced His reign prior to he ascension when he announced that all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him and Paul tells us at 1Co 12:27 that the church is the body of Christ here on earth. Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the body of Christ, His church. (Mat 16:18)
So, according to scripture, Christ IS reigning here on earth through His body the church. (Which body is doing not so hot a job.)

There have been those who believed in a 1000 year reign of Christ throughout the history of the church.
However, the ENTIRE TEACHING of the "Rapture" did not arise until the first half of the 19th century.

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

From reading your post, am I to assume that you don't believe that the teaching of the millennium kingdom is true?

 

[Jim Parker]

I hate to break the bad news to you, but after the Rapture, there won't be any of the Lord's people left on earth, as all those who are Christ's will be with Him in the air, and the rest will be destroyed, starting with the antichrist, who will be destroyed by the brightness of His Coming.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come...
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2,8

This is the same coming by which the resurrection/rapture occurs.

Here, read it for yourself.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

All those who are Christ, with be caught up together in the clouds with Jesus Christ, as He returns to Jerusalem, to take His place on His throne as King over all the earth, and destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming.

JLB

That isn't what I was talking about.
None of of what you refutes Rev 7:14b (NKJV) “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
By that statement of the angel, I conclude that the teaching of a pretribulation "rapture" is incorrect because (again) in order to "come out" of something (like the "great tribulation") one must first be IN the thing from which one comes out.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

From reading your post, am I to assume that you don't believe that the teaching of the millennium kingdom is true?

The teaching of the millennial kingdom is found only once in the ecstatic vision of John at Rev 20:4. Since it is highly symbolic, apocalyptic literature, I believe it is imprudent to take a literal view of the passage. The Revelation is the work of its author to record in human language ecstatic visions which cannot be precisely reduced to words. To take a literal view of the his efforts to describe those visions is, IMO, unfounded and prone to serious error.

I take 1000 years to be understood as "a long time" which understanding is in harmony with Jesus' statement at Matthew 28:18 that all power and authority in heaven and on earth had already been given to him prior to his ascension and with the teaching of Paul that the church is the body of Christ (1Co 12:27) being one flesh with Christ (Eph 5:31-32) and is, therefore, the presence of Christ and the kingdom of God on earth.

That Satan will be bound for the symbolic 1000 years is also in harmony with the teaching of Jesus at Mat 16:19 and 18:18 that the church has the power and authority to bind Satan and his minions.

So I do believe in the millennial reign of Christ from an amillennialist perspective of the 1000 years meaning "a long time.."

iakov the fool