Noah Wasn't a Righteous Man

[Imagican]

You are the one that has MISSED the entirety of what was offered about the character of Noah and WHY he was chosen. You have simply focused on HALF of what was truly offered. For it does NOT simply say that Noah was chosen for being RIGHTEOUS. Doesn't say that AT ALL. It states that Noah was a JUST man AND, (don't forget this point nor ignore if for LACK of understanding), Perfect IN HIS GENERATIONS.

Now, you would propose that it was SIMPLY for the sake of 'being righteous' that Noah was chosen. But this is NOT what is STATED in The Word. For Just AND perfect in generations was the reason. Now, all you NEED to do is discern what PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS MEANS.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Adullam]

You are the one that has MISSED the entirety of what was offered about the character of Noah and WHY he was chosen. You have simply focused on HALF of what was truly offered. For it does NOT simply say that Noah was chosen for being RIGHTEOUS. Doesn't say that AT ALL. It states that Noah was a JUST man AND, (don't forget this point nor ignore if for LACK of understanding), Perfect IN HIS GENERATIONS.

Now, you would propose that it was SIMPLY for the sake of 'being righteous' that Noah was chosen. But this is NOT what is STATED in The Word. For Just AND perfect in generations was the reason. Now, all you NEED to do is discern what PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS MEANS.

Blessings,

MEC

I can't discuss things with a person who doesn't do any research. I gave you the answers...but you have not looked them up. :naughty Obstinacy is not the hallmark of truth in any regard.

 

[Imagican]

Ok, I get it. You are a Saint sent to save us sinners. Is that it?

You have STILL to this point utterly refused to address what I have offered. You would rather simply state that YOU have offered something 'inspired' that NO ONE else seems to GET.

Your method of discussion is without merit. You THINK that you are somehow able to 'throw out words' and others are JUST supposed to go 'oh yeah', YOU ARE RIGHT.

But I have already offered that YOU have failed to follow the entirety of what has been offered concerning Noah.

Now, one more time, and I'll make it EASY this time: What does this mean: Noah was PERFECT in his GENERATIONS. For to ignore this is to ONLY be able to come up with FAULTY conclusions as to WHY Noah was CHOSEN for a particular JOB.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Adullam]

Ok, I get it. You are a Saint sent to save us sinners. Is that it?

You have STILL to this point utterly refused to address what I have offered. You would rather simply state that YOU have offered something 'inspired' that NO ONE else seems to GET.

Your method of discussion is without merit. You THINK that you are somehow able to 'throw out words' and others are JUST supposed to go 'oh yeah', YOU ARE RIGHT.

But I have already offered that YOU have failed to follow the entirety of what has been offered concerning Noah.

Now, one more time, and I'll make it EASY this time: What does this mean: Noah was PERFECT in his GENERATIONS. For to ignore this is to ONLY be able to come up with FAULTY conclusions as to WHY Noah was CHOSEN for a particular JOB.

Blessings,



MEC

I can't do your work for you. I expect that someone would do a little research before condemning someone who is offering the answer. I speak and read Hebrew. I am only trying to tell you what is written. No need to get your pride ruffled. :naughty Go on E-sword (this is a free program ) and look up the verse in question. Drag your mouse over the words just and perfect. Then get back to me.

 

[Imagican]

I appreciate your offer for the free download, but I do not wish to download a program simply because you have stated that there is some king of answer to be found there. Here is what I USE to find the truth:

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

This is taken from the King James version of the Bible.

What you seem to be avoiding is that there is MUCH that was offered PREVIOUS to the statement of WHO or WHAT Noah WAS. Basically the REASON that God decided to destroy men and why he chose Noah is ONLY to be understood by taking the account in context.

So, was Noah a 'righteous man'? In the eyes of God he most assuredly WAS. But is this the REASON that he was chosen to 'start over'? It is certainly not the ONLY reason. Read the entire chapter with understanding and it becomes apparent that Noah was NOT chosen ONLY because he was righteous.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Adullam]

Who is being cryptic here?


Whom is more trustworthy, a group of bible translators or the text it was translated from?

I am not after an adequate interpretation from the English but the truth behind the original words. We must go to the source in such matters.

Do you own a concordance?

 

[Imagican]

Adulham,

I KNOW this: That the words, NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE TRANSLATED, have LITTLE meaning to this World. That THROUGH The Sprit and ONLY through The Spirit do they have ANY meaning that MATTERS.

Whether each word was accurately translated is UTTERLY debatable.

But, that there were those that existed WITHOUT EVEN THE AID of the written Word that were INSPIRED and TAUGHT understanding through The Spirit of God is WITHOUT debate, (in my understanding at least).

So, if you have something that you desire to say, by all means, feel free. But an insistance that I follow 'your commands' so far as determinging the 'original language spoken', I am not inclined to oblige.

I have offered NOTHING mystic. Just pure and simple words as offered UP in scripture. Either the Word IS the inspired Word of God or it isn't. That is NOT what I chose to debate in this topic.

There is MORE offered in relation to this issue than Noah being 'merely righteous'. That is MY point. What your point is is for YOU to make and NOT for 'me to GUESS'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Adullam]

Adulham,

I KNOW this: That the words, NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE TRANSLATED, have LITTLE meaning to this World. That THROUGH The Sprit and ONLY through The Spirit do they have ANY meaning that MATTERS.

Whether each word was accurately translated is UTTERLY debatable.

But, that there were those that existed WITHOUT EVEN THE AID of the written Word that were INSPIRED and TAUGHT understanding through The Spirit of God is WITHOUT debate, (in my understanding at least).

So, if you have something that you desire to say, by all means, feel free. But an insistance that I follow 'your commands' so far as determinging the 'original language spoken', I am not inclined to oblige.



I have offered NOTHING mystic. Just pure and simple words as offered UP in scripture. Either the Word IS the inspired Word of God or it isn't. That is NOT what I chose to debate in this topic.

There is MORE offered in relation to this issue than Noah being 'merely righteous'. That is MY point. What your point is is for YOU to make and NOT for 'me to GUESS'.

Blessings,

MEC

OK Tamim is a recurring theme in the bible...as is shalem. Tamim is what we fall from....like the devil whom the bible says was tamim in the beginning. Righteousness (tsedek)is also a recurring theme in the bible. These are building blocks that lay a foundation for the future kingdom of God. God chose to reveal His way to us gradually....as a curtain slowly is lifted. He begins by showing us the cost of disobedience. Then, He shows us what lengths He will go to to preserve His righteous ones. Those that please Him. God loves righteousness in all it's forms. (unlike us)

Fast forward to the New Covenant. Rather than taking away from what was previously pleasing to God, we have a further revelation. Christ is revealed together with a whole NEW ORDER of righteousness. His righteousness is now available through Christ. Now, Jesus did not come to promote lawlessness...but to move forward towards the accomplishing of God's will.

So the New Covenant is built ON righteousness...onto holiness. Righteousness built on righteousness. To reduce rightousness in man, is to reduce holiness in Christ. Those who reduce righteousness will never attain to holiness. God's righteousness is lost on an un-righteous man. Balaam is an example of this.

Jesus DID NOT come to call the righteous to repentance. This is key! He came to call the unrighteous to repentance. The unrighteous will not inherit life unless they repent and perform righteousness. The biblical standard of salvation has always been, and will always be...righteousness.

Yet there is a higher way...this involves an intimacy with God and the receiving of a sinless nature through Christ. But very few will go this far. This is the domain of the saints. Saint means holy. A holy man walks as Jesus walked....in the power from on high. Now that makes any other righteousness as filthy rags!!!!!

 

[Imagican]

Ok, NOW you're talking. What you have offered here is nothing that I can refute. You are absolutely right in that 'the world' cannot even recognize righteousness. Yet there are those with attributes considered to BE 'righteous BY God'.

Abraham's FAITH ALONE was considered by God as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

And I'm sure that PART of the REASON for God chosing Noah was his 'righteousness' in God's eyes.

In this we have no disagreement. And I also agree that MOST of those that proclaim Christ as their Savior have little understanding of what it truly MEANS to be a 'follower of Christ'. For MANY have 'gone out into this world' perverting that which was offered up in truth. Even the concept of truth itself has been perverted by most to simply mean 'their OWN truth'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Adullam]

So you see that Righteousness (big R) is built upon righteousness (little r)?

 

[mutzrein]

So you see that Righteousness (big R) is built upon righteousness (little r)?

Ah, I'm beginning to get the picture . . .

MEC stop using big LETTERS - you're confusing me. Just kidding ;)

 

[Imagican]

I come from a BIG town. It's SO big that I USE Big Letters......... he he he.......

MEC

 

[Adullam]

So you see that Righteousness (big R) is built upon righteousness (little r)?

Ah, I'm beginning to get the picture . . .

MEC stop using big LETTERS - you're confusing me. Just kidding ;)

The same way an upper room is built on a foundational first floor.

 

[Cornelius]

Adullam, it seems as if these scriptures address this matter. Jesus is not calling the righteous , because they do not need calling. But if we then take other scripture we know that the righteous, then are "called" to the high calling in Christ . Holiness.
. Correct me if I am wrong, but that would be "many are called" (to the high calling to manifest Christ) but few are chosen (at the end of the race). But this does not change the righteousness (small letters ) of those who were righteous to begin with.

Mat 9:12 But when he heard it, he said, They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

 

[Adullam]

Adullam, it seems as if these scriptures address this matter. Jesus is not calling the righteous , because they do not need calling. But if we then take other scripture we know that the righteous, then are "called" to the high calling in Christ . Holiness.
. Correct me if I am wrong, but that would be "many are called" (to the high calling to manifest Christ) but few are chosen (at the end of the race). But this does not change the righteousness (small letters ) of those who were righteous to begin with.

Mat 9:12 But when he heard it, he said, They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

:yes :


Jesus calls many righteous too, not to repentance, but to follow Him. Not many do so since they are unable. This is not a rejection of Christ, but an inabiblity to go as far as Christ would have them go. Spiritual intimacy is not for everyone.

My prayer and message to Christians is that they be sure of their foundation, lest they have nothing when it is revealed that they fall short of God's holiness.

Like the wicked servant who didn't even leave his talent with the money changers.

I know a good number of Christians who are among the righteous...but not the holy. Humility is key, here...not to boast as being greater than one is. As it is written...

"You have been told, O man, what is good, and what the Lord requires of you: Only to do the right and to love goodness, and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8,


Blessings to you C

John

 

[Cornelius]

This obviously creates questions
1) Are the righteous saved?
2) Are the righteous saved that has never heard of Christ. (Romans 2? Rom 2:14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);
Rom 2:16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
3) There is the Bride and then the Virgins and also the Wedding feast guests and the "friends of the Groom" . They all attend the feast, but not all are the Bride etc.
4) What about the man who was asked about his wedding garment and then thrown out? Did he come in his "own righteousness" ?

OK, I hope that I have not asked too many questions

C

 

[Adullam]

This obviously creates questions
1) Are the righteous saved?

1. Scarecely. "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:18



2) Are the righteous saved that has never heard of Christ. (Romans 2? Rom 2:14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
Rom 2:15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);
Rom 2:16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

You know it! ;) Yes to whom little is given little is required.

3) There is the Bride and then the Virgins and also the Wedding feast guests and the "friends of the Groom" . They all attend the feast, but not all are the Bride etc.

Yes. The righteous will attend the wedding of the saints to Christ.

4) What about the man who was asked about his wedding garment and then thrown out? Did he come in his "own righteousness" ?

No. He was foolish in that (like many modern Christians) he assumed he belonged with the holy ones. He also neglected to be righteous and looked down on this righteousness as non-existent outside of Christ in any regard. Therefore he is rejected. Unless your own righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, you shall in no wise enter in...

OK, I hope that I have not asked too many questions

You already knew this in large part! ;)

C

John

 

[Cornelius]

Thank you

You then touched on this scripture: Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

From this scripture, it would seem that we do in fact need more than our righteousness (small letters) if we want to enter into the kingdom of heaven ?

 

[Adullam]

Thank you

You then touched on this scripture: Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

From this scripture, it would seem that we do in fact need more than our righteousness (small letters) if we want to enter into the kingdom of heaven ?

OH...the way your question is worded makes it difficult to answer. There is more than one thing going on here.

It depends on where you are looking from.

It does take more than a man's righteousness to get into the kingdom. It takes justification by God. We need to get our ticket stamped so to speak. God decides who is righteous.

Now, Jesus is actually comparing the righteousness of different men...this is as an observer, mind you. (We are not talking of God's righteousness here.) So God has a lower standard of salvation for men, based on doing what is right, that Jesus defends in the face of unrighteousness. In other words...if we can remain uncorrupted in a corrupt world...and endure to the end...then we will be saved (justified) by the Lord. This simultaneously shows God's mercy and reveals the scale of His own Righteousness...which is exceedingly high. Praises to God Almighty! :amen


And we are not even talking about being IN Christ yet. ;)

 

[Cornelius]

OK, I need to chew on this

You do realize that in this discussion we need to place Jesus and the work of the cross in correct relation to this issue of righteousness. What then changes after the sacrifice of Jesus if we have to look, say at Noah who were righteous and obviously saved by God.

OK, for one, I would say, the way to holiness opened. The "high calling in Christ" came about. We can now walk a sinless walk , if God gives us the faith for this walk, which then will bring the grace to walk it. (no faith = no grace )