Noah's ark?

[Imagican]

Quasar wrote: Pure unqualified imagination and unsupported opinion, with the usual immature M/O of attacking people rather than the subject. I've shaken the dust off my feet and moved on. This concludes any further discussion with you on this subject, as it is clear the cast in stone views you have are 'infallible,' to you, that is.

How have I attacked you? How is my view any less supported by the evidence than yours? Why would I hold views that I thought were wrong? I freely admit they could be wrong, but at this time according to all I‘ve read and reasoned, I believe they are true. I’m sure you feel your views are correct or you would be a fool to continue to hold them knowing they were in error. I would much prefer to discuss the OP subject but I spent some time answering your implications that anyone with lesser education should bow to your superior qualifications and admit they were not eligible to debate it with you and your impressive entourage of ‘old earth’ theorists.

You didn’t answer my question either. You implied dinosaurs couldn’t have been living with man in the pre flood ages. In reference to their compatibility, I asked if you thought they aren‘t compatible today or they weren‘t compatible during the first thousand years or so? Why would you feel they were not compatible with Adam/Noah?

Let me offer the answer:

Because the dinosaurs would have EATEN Adam and Eve. Let's even skip ahead a few million years. If Adam and Eve had been present durring the time of the Saber Toothed Cats and Cave Bears they probably wouldn't have made it.

Oh, and as for the 'flood' being the answer to the fossil remains that we have discovered. Funny, even if the flood were responsible for the death of the land animals, (dinosaurs that lived on the land), how would it account for the extinction of the ones that lived in the oceans? We find that durring the period of the extinction of the large land dinosaurs, there was also a mass extinction of those that lived in the water. A global flood might destroy a few that lived in the oceans, but MASS extinction? Not likely.

And if man and dinosaurs lived together, did Noah gather two of each of these also? Of course not. Since written records have existed there is NO evidence that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. Wooley Mammoths and Cave Bears, absolutely, for these only disappeared a mere 12,000 to 16,000 years ago. And, we have found tons of evidence that these were hunted by man who used their flesh, skin and bones to survive.

MEC

 

[Quasar]

Noah's ark

Creation in reality probably took millions of years..... He has NEVER indicated that the six days of creation WERE LITERAL.

INDICATION:
Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

How often are we commanded to keep the sabbath? One out of every seven literal days?

If the Almighty God has the ability to create the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in it, would it be harder for Him to do so in seven days than seven ____________. Ages, million years, whatever. He did not leave that to our imagination. It is not guess work. Scripture says that Creation took place in one literal week.

Q: God dictated the creation narrative to Moses, what He knew could be comprehended by the finite mind of mankind. That the heavens and the earth were created in six twenty four hour days is the epitome of naivete.

See Ps.24-1-2 and 2 Pet.3:5, for a glimpse into a timeless period of time for God, as before He created it for mankind, there was no such thing as TIME. His DAY could be any period of time, whether 1,000 years, 10K or 10M years, He would still render it exactly as He had created it, after He spoke the sun and the moon into restoration on the fourth day.

There is no way for us to know or understand now, the exact time frame it took God to create the heavens and the earth. Because TIME did not exist then. However, by using the time frame He established for mankind after He set the sun and moon into place and the earth and heavenly bodies in motion, a 24 hour day was established for our understanding. Which is in exact harmony with Ex.31:12-18.

Science should be understood as an ally to God's work, not opposition as many who do not believe in God would try to make us believe. When science is properly observed, there is no doubt the earth is very old as the Bible reveals to us in Pr.8:24. That was so far removed, scientists are far and few between who have ever been able to find a time frame in the history of the earth when it ever stood without oceans. The fact that Gen.1:2 reveals the earth stood completely in water, should also clearly tell us there is much more to the story than the age in which we now live.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Quasar]

Noah's ark

Quasar wrote: Pure unqualified imagination and unsupported opinion, with the usual immature M/O of attacking people rather than the subject. I've shaken the dust off my feet and moved on. This concludes any further discussion with you on this subject, as it is clear the cast in stone views you have are 'infallible,' to you, that is.

How have I attacked you? How is my view any less supported by the evidence than yours? Why would I hold views that I thought were wrong? I freely admit they could be wrong, but at this time according to all I‘ve read and reasoned, I believe they are true. I’m sure you feel your views are correct or you would be a fool to continue to hold them knowing they were in error. I would much prefer to discuss the OP subject but I spent some time answering your implications that anyone with lesser education should bow to your superior qualifications and admit they were not eligible to debate it with you and your impressive entourage of ‘old earth’ theorists.

You didn’t answer my question either. You implied dinosaurs couldn’t have been living with man in the pre flood ages. In reference to their compatibility, I asked if you thought they aren‘t compatible today or they weren‘t compatible during the first thousand years or so? Why would you feel they were not compatible with Adam/Noah?

Let me offer the answer:

Because the dinosaurs would have EATEN Adam and Eve. Let's even skip ahead a few million years. If Adam and Eve had been present durring the time of the Saber Toothed Cats and Cave Bears they probably wouldn't have made it.

Oh, and as for the 'flood' being the answer to the fossil remains that we have discovered. Funny, even if the flood were responsible for the death of the land animals, (dinosaurs that lived on the land), how would it account for the extinction of the ones that lived in the oceans? We find that durring the period of the extinction of the large land dinosaurs, there was also a mass extinction of those that lived in the water. A global flood might destroy a few that lived in the oceans, but MASS extinction? Not likely.

And if man and dinosaurs lived together, did Noah gather two of each of these also? Of course not. Since written records have existed there is NO evidence that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. Wooley Mammoths and Cave Bears, absolutely, for these only disappeared a mere 12,000 to 16,000 years ago. And, we have found tons of evidence that these were hunted by man who used their flesh, skin and bones to survive.

MEC

Q: Please tell us why God would create the likes of the huge dinosaurs, only to destroy them in Noah's flood. That is very fuzzy logic in my humble opinion! According to science, they did not exist in our age, or from day one of creation, not would God create them in day five when all of the animals we have ever known were created.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[unred typo]

Imagican wrote: Let me offer the answer: Because the dinosaurs would have EATEN Adam and Eve.
I’m surprised to hear your ‘answer’. The biblical answer is very simple and right in the first chapter.
Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Since neither Adam nor Eve were green herbs, they had nothing to fear from any of the animals. The flood changed things and in order to survive on the radically altered planet, some became carnivores. Romans 8:20 says “For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.†The life/death struggle of nature is a temporary fix to keep it going until the end. After the flood of Noah, the animals were given a fear and dread of man, Genesis 9:2.

Some of the varieties of dinosaurs probably were eliminated during the previous overflowing of the River Gihon, which destroyed 1/3 of the earth’s surface sometime before the worldwide flood, as recorded in Jasher. Some probably went extinct in the years after as many animal species have done and still do today. God has control of those things, so you need not worry. You don’t lose any sleep wondering if packs of crazed polar bears will migrate into your back yard and eat your neighborhood, do you? I bet you don’t even sleep with your shotgun. Why is that?



Imagican wrote: A global flood might destroy a few that lived in the oceans, but MASS extinction? Not likely.

Really? Are we speaking of the same flood event? With the volcanic breaking up of the fountains of the deep that circled the globe, gushing out billions of tons of water in tsunami waves capable of overflowing all the mountains of the world? Dinosaurs would be like guppies in a storm drain. The ash clouds alone would choke out vast numbers of the sea life.



Imagican wrote: And if man and dinosaurs lived together, did Noah gather two of each of these also? Of course not. Since written records have existed there is NO evidence that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time.

Then I would say the ‘old ages’ folks have been quite successful at the suppression of the evidence. I have a file of such things. Maybe I should drag it out. And in answer to your question, yes, Noah brought two of all the creatures living at that time. Have you ever seen dinosaur eggs? They’re really not too large and if the young are only a few weeks old, a dozen could fit in Shem’s duffle bag. The fact that Job described dinosaurs in his book tells us that they survived for a while after the flood.
.

 

[unred typo]

Quasar wrote: Please tell us why God would create the likes of the huge dinosaurs, only to destroy them in Noah's flood. That is very fuzzy logic in my humble opinion! According to science, they did not exist in our age, or from day one of creation, not would God create them in day five when all of the animals we have ever known were created.

He created them for his viewing pleasure and ours. They were mighty beasts and from looking at the rest of his creation, he liked variety. Why they were killed off, I don’t know. Too clumsy? Too rude? Always stepping on the Dodo birds? Maybe they transgressed God’s law of eating only green herbs. Not all were destroyed in the flood anyway, since two types appear in the book of Job. Why do you think they could not have existed with other animals that we still have today?

 

[Imagican]

Unred,

Your suppositions are even LESS acceptable than evolutionists theories. I do not accept evolution as the creation of mankind. I DO believe that man WAS created BY GOD. But your theories bare little resemblance to anything remotely plausable. You are grasping at straws in order to try and make your literal six day creation FIT. It doesn't, however, and eventually the 'truth' will be accepted concerning creation as it is concerning the nature of the solar system and earth's place in it.

As has been pointed out by me and others, you have tried to place limits on God by insisting that His time is the 'same' as ours. There is absolutely NO reason to believe that time affects God AT ALL. If He IS imortal and timeless, then that's EXACTLY WHAT He IS. He very well may have been looking down upon this Earth and His creations for MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of years. Creating animals first in order to PREPARE the Earth for His ULTIMATE creation; MAN, which He created in HIS IMAGE. For us to be in the position that we are right this very minute, it WAS necessary for the Earth to be able to lend itself to the present state that we find ourselves. Fossil fuels, gold, diamonds, ores of all sorts, etc......... even the stable nature of the Earth itself and the plants that exist NOW. These things OBVIOUSLY needed to BE HERE in order for us to BE where we are in TIME.

Look, FIRST of all, God is 'light years' ahead of us in understanding. To even think that one is able to understand it all through the few words offered in the Bible is utterly rediculous. The words offered were ALL that was needed at the time. Traditionalist INSIST that the meager offerings of the Bible are EVERYTHING involved in creation. How simply minded one must be in order to believe in such a limited manner. You belittle yourself, your fellow man, and God Himself by NOT using what He gave you. Intellegence, (the ability to learn), was obviously a 'part' of His image which He GAVE us. To ignore this for the sake of 'fairy tales', is nothing short of refusing to use what has been given. And when I refer to 'fairy tales', I refer NOT to the words of the Bible but the interpretation that many have accepted concerning the words.

i have offered NOTHING that contradicts the Word. Only the interpretation of the Word in which MOST have chosen to accept it. I do NOT. I have read the Word over and over and have come to the conclusion that much of the most ancient is NOT even CLOSE to complete. Didn't need to be. Suffice was the knowledge that WE WERE CREATED. The mentality of man five thousand years ago was not such that he would have understood anything much more intricate than that which was offered. The longer we spend and the more advanced technology becomes on this planet the MORE we WILL learn about the present and the past. This is a FACT. To deny this is to simply stick ones head in the sand and state, 'well, I don't 'like' it that way'. So be it. But don't try and separate those that DO care using your insistance that ignorance is bliss. For to insist upon a ten thousand year old Earth causes NOTHING but a separation of those that KNOW better.

How do you think Galileo felt about the church that sponsored his research when he proved that the Earth was NOT the center of the universe? The church insisted that IT WAS, yet HE KNEW, that it wasn't. What position do you think that it placed his faith in the church, when they were WRONG and refused to accept the PROOF of what was RIGHT, how much faith do you think he was able to maintain in ANYTHING that they offered when he realized that they would continue to insist that their false knowledge was TRUTH?

So, you see, as evidence proves more and more that the literal six day creation didn't happen, how many do you think will shun the churches and those that accept their teachings for their simple stubbornness? You probably don't care enough to even think about it.

There is NO mention about the Earth and it's inhabitants BEFORE man was created other than the ORDER in which things were created. And for us to KNOW now what we do and traditionalists to try and teach that EVERYTHING predating man was created in five days is utterly rediculous. For we KNOW that there HAS been evolution in the animals that populated this planet BEFORE man. Even much evidence that man himself has evolved quite a bit from his initial appearance upon this planet.

I am NOT offering doubt against God or against His Word. Only doubt in the interpretations that many still hold dear even AFTER the facts prove differently than they 'choose' to believe.

MEC

 

[unred typo]

Imagican wrote: i have offered NOTHING that contradicts the Word.

I think I can agree with the first four words of your statement. Do you think you can simply declare your view is truth? When evidence is presented, I will explain how it fits nicely into the Biblical account. If you can’t refute my explanation, simply rambling on about how you ‘know’ this and that and tossing in a totally unrelated story like how Galileo felt when he was right and the church didn’t believe him, doesn‘t prove your POV. Name one atheist that believes in a young earth view. How do you think God feels when you join with those who will do anything to prove his account a fiction? Why do you think atheists will spend their entire lives digging in the dirt and playing with bones, counting isotopes and mud layers?

Why don’t you explain what exactly the rainbow in the flood account in Genesis was supposed to prove if it was not a promise never to flood the entire world again? You have to admit that local floods continue to occur, but never again has the entire planet been flooded. A story that makes Noah’s flood to be local is making God to be lying here. :o

P.S. The OP is about Noah. If you want to discuss the merits of evolutionary theories, or the advantage of joining with the popular world view when witnessing to unbelievers, I suggest a new thread. Our posts get too long when you try to encompass too large and varied a subject.

 

[unred typo]

Sorry, Quasar, I seem to have skipped one of your posts.
Quasar wrote: God dictated the creation narrative to Moses, what He knew could be comprehended by the finite mind of mankind. That the heavens and the earth were created in six twenty four hour days is the epitome of naivete.

Funny, I have never known God to mince words or make up silly stories to explain anything. How much more understandable is it to say 6 literal days or to say, “First I created a world where terrible lizard creatures roamed the earth. I destroyed them and created another civilization where ape like creatures became more and more human and never got very intelligent. This lasted for eons of unrecorded time. Finally, I grew weary of them, and destroyed the world that I had made and started a new creation. And the world I destroyed was without form and void, etc.â€Â

Moses was no dullard, being schooled in the best learning of the greatest civilization of the day. I think he could have understood the little story you have embraced, fabricated from bits of bone and flood debris. What exactly is your story? Or is it beyond our comprehension to understand as well?



Quasar wrote: There is no way for us to know or understand now, the exact time frame it took God to create the heavens and the earth. Because TIME did not exist then. However, by using the time frame He established for mankind after He set the sun and moon into place and the earth and heavenly bodies in motion, a 24 hour day was established for our understanding. Which is in exact harmony with Ex.31:12-18.

This is where you’re confused. God knew how long a day, or an evening and morning specifically, was long before he created the sun and moon. He had divided the time in halves. The evening was the first half and the morning, the second half. The heavenly bodies were set in motion to record the passing of the time as God experienced it. Our solar system is synchronized to his watch. Time is not something that needs creating. Time is the order of progression of one event to another. Before there were any events, there would be nothing to track. Keeping track of time is done by counting the increments of orderly intervals of this progression.

Time as we understand it can be manipulated by God’s hand and he can speed up this progress or slow it to a crawl. There was already a thread for this fascinating subject or you could start another one if you would like to hammer out these ideas.

The point in Genesis, however, is that a 24 hour day was established at the juncture when God separated the light from the darkness, and began to actually create the heavens and the earth.

 

[Quasar]

Noah's ark

Quote:

"Quasar wrote: Please tell us why God would create the likes of the huge dinosaurs, only to destroy them in Noah's flood. That is very fuzzy logic in my humble opinion! According to science, they did not exist in our age, or from day one of creation, not would God create them in day five when all of the animals we have ever known were created."

Poster's response:

>>>He created them for his viewing pleasure and ours. They were mighty beasts and from looking at the rest of his creation, he liked variety. Why they were killed off, I don’t know. Too clumsy? Too rude? Always stepping on the Dodo birds? Maybe they transgressed God’s law of eating only green herbs. Not all were destroyed in the flood anyway, since two types appear in the book of Job. Why do you think they could not have existed with other animals that we still have today?<<<


Q: Back to the facts: Scientific evidence, beginning in the middle of the 19th century to the present day, dating procedures prove the dinosaurs, as well as other pre-historic animals that do not exist in this present age, had to have existed before, in the same way the sons of God did [Another subject I will not go into further on this thread].

Now show me either Biblical or secular evidence of dinosaurs existing from day five of God's creation. The Leviathan in Job was not a dinosaur, but rather a sea serpent [Job 41:1 and Isa.27:1].

The above remark is nothing but pure opinion. You all know the saying, "Everyone has one!"

 

[Quasar]

Noah's ark

Quote:

"Quasar wrote: There is no way for us to know or understand now, the exact time frame it took God to create the heavens and the earth. Because TIME did not exist then. However, by using the time frame He established for mankind after He set the sun and moon into place and the earth and heavenly bodies in motion, a 24 hour day was established for our understanding. Which is in exact harmony with Ex.31:12-18."

Poster's response:

>>>This is where you’re confused. God knew how long a day, or an evening and morning specifically, was long before he created the sun and moon. He had divided the time in halves. The evening was the first half and the morning, the second half. The heavenly bodies were set in motion to record the passing of the time as God experienced it. Our solar system is synchronized to his watch. Time is not something that needs creating. Time is the order of progression of one event to another. Before there were any events, there would be nothing to track. Keeping track of time is done by counting the increments of orderly intervals of this progression.

Time as we understand it can be manipulated by God’s hand and he can speed up this progress or slow it to a crawl. There was already a thread for this fascinating subject or you could start another one if you would like to hammer out these ideas.

The point in Genesis, however, is that a 24 hour day was established at the juncture when God separated the light from the darkness, and began to actually create the heavens and the earth.<<<


Q: You are the only one confused, sonny! Opinion in any debate is invalid without supporting your imagination. Supposing you tell me how long the days/nights were before the fourth day! When there is someone who wants to do nothing but take pleasure in cutting others low, attacking them, and is not censored by management, I will do so myself. It's time for you to grow up and discuss issues without attacking people and to provide verification for the opinions you are so grossly glib about. What I post, I support with Scripture.

 

[Imagican]

unred,

Firstly, name a local flood that has happened in recorded history that destroyed EVERYONE in the locale.

Second, you falsely accuse me. I have offered NOTHING that makes God to be a 'liar'. Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible and for one to 'think' that this is the TOTALITY of evidence concerning the 'flood' is simply wishful 'thinking'.

Thirdly, the world is MOSTLY uninterested in 'truth' and therefore would disagree with MOST of what I have offered.

MEC

 

[unred typo]

Quasar wrote: [Q] Back to the facts: Scientific evidence, beginning in the middle of the 19th century to the present day, dating procedures prove the dinosaurs, as well as other pre-historic animals that do not exist in this present age, had to have existed before, in the same way the sons of God did [Another subject I will not go into further on this thread].
Now show me either Biblical or secular evidence of dinosaurs existing from day five of God's creation. The Leviathan in Job was not a dinosaur, but rather a sea serpent [Job 41:1 and Isa.27:1]. [/quote]

In your “humble opinion†all I have to offer is "fuzzy logic, pure unqualified imagination and unsupported opinion, with the usual immature M/O of attacking people rather than the subject†but I’m honored to have this opportunity to be enlightened by your correction and admonition. A few comments written in the same vein as yours are acceptable, I trust? The facts: Scientific evidence, beginning in the middle of the 19th century to the present day, use unqualified and unverifiable dating procedures to prove the dinosaurs, as well as other pre-historic animals that do not exist in this present age, had to have existed before, in the same way the sons of God did [Another subject I will not go into further on this thread either]. So, are you convinced yet? Maybe, what we need here is some of that “common sense†to understand how the almighty dating methods are actually trustworthy.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, in my book, however silly. Forgive me, but your opinion or even the opinions of thousands of highly educated scientists, however studied and glorified, is not proof. We all do know the saying, "Opinions are like… belly buttons, everyone has one!" but obviously, not Adam and Eve, unless that is where God blew in the breath of life and tied them off like punch balls, who can say? The actual evidence is buried and gone and just open for speculation. Speculation is not proof. At least I know enough to understand that is the case.

What we do have are some excellent written accounts, complete with genealogies and fulfilled prophesies that would accurately set the date right down to creation itself if the historical links from then until now hadn’t been too badly skewed by various ethnic groups vying for the ’oldest civilization’ title.

As for biblical proof of dinosaurs and man coexisting, we have the leviathan in Job 41, which sounds like some kind of Apatosaurus with his teeth, terrible round about, strong neck, and “when he raises up himself, the mighty are afraid,†and the NIV says “his undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge†and asks “Who can strip off his outer coat? Who would approach him with a bridle? Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth?†Clearly, he lives near the water but can go on land as well.
Also there is the behemoth in Job 40, which sounds like a Diplodocus or brachiosaurus type creature with his tail swaying like a cedar while eating grass as an ox. Before dinosaur bones were discovered, the largest animals that Bible translators knew of were hippos, elephants and crocodiles. Now we have fossil evidence of animals much larger and more fearsome that more aptly fit the descriptions in Job.

.

 

[unred typo]

Quasar wrote: Q: You are the only one confused, sonny! Opinion in any debate is invalid without supporting your imagination. Supposing you tell me how long the days/nights were before the fourth day! Q]

The evening and the morning were one day. I understand them to be actual 24 hour days. If you want to supersize them to be days spanning thousands of years, I suppose you can do that. It’s going to be a long cold night. :-?


Quasar wrote: Q: When there is someone who wants to do nothing but take pleasure in cutting others low, attacking them, and is not censored by management, I will do so myself. It's time for you to grow up and discuss issues without attacking people and to provide verification for the opinions you are so grossly glib about. What I post, I support with Scripture.[/Q]

I’m sorry you feel threatened by my ideas. Do you have an example of me “attacking you†or “cutting you low†? I have tried to address the issues and do it with scriptural backing as well. I don’t think I am “grossly glib†just because I’m willing to continue to hold an opinion in opposition to current scientific methods that you trust. That offends you apparently. I find that strange because I am not offended if you think my theories are the epitome of naivete. I don’t mind what you think of me. Just like belly buttons, right? Do you have an out-ie or an in-ie? :wink:

 

[Imagican]

unread,

your 'TWO' discriptions offered in Job do little to describe the THOUSANDS of prehistoric life forms that once roamed this planet. No doubt that there have been 'some' species that HAVE existed along side man. But MANY MORE that didn't. Your denial of this does nothing to alter the 'truth' except in your own mind.

Many have made comments that God controlled the animals and that is HOW Noah was able to gather SO MANY. If God chose to DO IT Himself, He wouldn't have needed Noah's help to 'start with'. Quite often there are those that attribute miraculous events to those that have a very logical explanation. The more educated we become the more we realize this. Supersticious wives tales are RARELY accurate. Based on some true events, at times, but TOTALLY misunderstood by those that witnessed them.

I believe that the ONLY reason that Noah was commanded to 'build the ark' and fill it with animals and his family was MORE a matter of obedience than ANYTHING else. For God OBVIOUSLY could have done things DIFFERENTLY if He had so chosen. Noah was chosen 'for a reason'. And this reason was probably concerning his FAITH more than his ability.

Once again, funny how those that argue against an elderly earth accept almost ALL the other sciences that benefit them in their daily lives. But take the science of carbon dating and completely refuse to accept that it is a viable means of dating ancient bones and artifacts. What difference could it possibly make if the six days of creation WEREN'T literal days? Only that it means that those that accept it must ADMIT that they were WRONG. That the interpretation of the words of the Bible were simply THAT; misinterpretation. Nothing more, nothing less.

MEC

 

[unred typo]

Imagican wrote: Firstly, name a local flood that has happened in recorded history that destroyed EVERYONE in the locale.

Are you suggesting that God’s rainbow promises that he will only never again destroy every single living thing in a local area? That’s pretty….strange. Whatever floats your boat. You go with that. I still like mine better.



Imagican wrote: Second, you falsely accuse me. I have offered NOTHING that makes God to be a 'liar'. Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible and for one to 'think' that this is the TOTALITY of evidence concerning the 'flood' is simply wishful 'thinking'.

I must have misunderstood you. I thought you said the flood was a local event that only drowned all the living in that local area. My mistake. That would have been calling God a liar according to Genesis and Jasher. This of course is not every detail that could be known about the events. I’m glad I never said anything as ridiculous as that. The Bible doesn’t even record the previous flooding of 1/3 of the entire earth as recorded in Jasher. Both reports are lacking in the complete description of the horrific event. I guess God will never get a job on the ‘Enquirer.’
Here are a few verses where God claims the destruction is totally global except for Noah’s arkful:
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

11And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

15And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.



Imagican wrote: Thirdly, the world is MOSTLY uninterested in 'truth' and therefore would disagree with MOST of what I have offered.

True. The world is MOSTLY uninterested in 'truth' but that doesn’t mean what you have presented is true. You appear to me to be in that unfortunate position having one foot on each of two horses going in opposite directions and stretching the truth to the limit to stay on both. Good luck with that. :o


.

 

[Solo]

http://www.ancientdays.net/flood2.htm

 

[unred typo]

Very interesting site, Solo. Thanks for sharing that.

. 8-)

 

[unred typo]

Part 2 :-D Sorry, I got a little behind in my answers.

Imagican wrote: your 'TWO' discriptions offered in Job do little to describe the THOUSANDS of prehistoric life forms that once roamed this planet. No doubt that there have been 'some' species that HAVE existed along side man. But MANY MORE that didn't.

You were expecting a complete Ark passenger list of every animal ever created including those that missed the boat because they went extinct between the time of Adam and the flood? Maybe I failed to mention the destruction of 1/3 of the animals living within the vicinity of the River Gihon, one of the three said to encompass the globe. When this river flooded 1/3 of the earth, I would speculate that any species that was native to that river/ marsh environment became buried, forming a flood debris layer somewhere under the Noachian flood layers and giving the appearance that these animals were the only ones in existence, when they were simply the first ones to go.

Imagican wrote: Many have made comments that God controlled the animals and that is HOW Noah was able to gather SO MANY. If God chose to DO IT Himself, He wouldn't have needed Noah's help to 'start with'….. I believe that the ONLY reason that Noah was commanded to 'build the ark' and fill it with animals and his family was MORE a matter of obedience than ANYTHING else. /I

Of course God didn’t need Noah’s help, and you are correct, I believe that it was done that way to test Noah‘s obedience but I disagree that it was the ONLY reason. It gave Noah a chance to witness to his friends and any one who came by to see the spectacle of a man commissioned by God to build a boat with the combined floor space of almost two football fields in three stories, each about 15 feet high.


Imagican wrote: Once again, funny how those that argue against an elderly earth accept almost ALL the other sciences that benefit them in their daily lives. But take the science of carbon dating and completely refuse to accept that it is a viable means of dating ancient bones and artifacts. /I

God has allowed advancements in science and technology as a sign that we are living in the end times. We may thank God for these gifts that make our lives easier.

Science that can be used has been proven. Does that mean science has never been wrong and we are to take everything science offers on faith, as infallible? Even the scientific community doesn’t expect that. Carbon dating may be useful for dating things within recorded history but there are too many ways a dating sample could become contaminated, some of which we don’t fully understand or even realize.


Imagican wrote: What difference could it possibly make if the six days of creation WEREN'T literal days? Only that it means that those that accept it must ADMIT that they were WRONG.

I think what you mean is that God would have to admit that he fibbed and you can‘t really trust him to tell it like it is. Seeds of doubt, weeds of despair.

 

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Solo wrote: http://www.ancientdays.net/flood2.htm

That site must have taken all the wind out of their sails. No comment from Quasar, Imagican, anyone?

 

[Solo]

Solo wrote: http://www.ancientdays.net/flood2.htm

That site must have taken all the wind out of their sails. No comment from Quasar, Imagican, anyone?

Mankind's sinful nature has a tough time turning towards God's truth (repentence), even when the truth is manifested directly in front of their very eyes. The biggest sin that a man has is his pride; therefore accepting the truth of God over ones own perceived beliefs that are based on the enemy's lies is almost impossible. Pride is a difficult thing to break, and that is why pride is an abomination to God.