Number

[Corn Pop]

Six threescore six = Six-twenty-twenty-twenty-six


Who made up six hundred and sixty six?

 

[Brother Mike]

Rev_13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

600
A score is 20
20x3=60
Add the 6
666

600 + 3*20 + 6 =
600 + 60 + 6 =
666

 

[Corn Pop]

I guess i mean more the meaning of threescore.

600+20+20+20+6

Threescore is 3 twentys. So i guess it can be twenty times three, or, three seperate twentys either way add to 666.

I mean some people see it as 60 full rather than 3 seperate 20s to get a name if you know what i mean.

60 or three 20s.

 

[Brother Mike]

chi xi sigma

There have been lots of ideas on this Greek Word.

Broken down very loosely marked for destruction, with no help.

There is no real English equivalent to Xi, and hence the debates.

I suspect we are not looking for a number, but the number of a man, an human number, one that puts his name out on hands and foreheads to buy or sell. Like a ownership sort of tag.

Some think it might be a RIFD chip, but that would contain all kinds of numbers, and identify the person with the chip, not the number of the man which gives authority to buy and sell.

It also would not be placed on the forehead, but stamped in the hand.

Scripture also says things where sealed by a kiss, Judas Kissed Jesus. The Holy Spirit seals us, so it could be a mark or indicator from the man, not seen.

 

[Corn Pop]

I have no idea. Im not going to go looking for it anyhow. If scripture reveals it to me so be it. If not so be it. I try keep things simple. Man likes to complicate things.

 

[JoJoe]

I would agree with kiwidan, we as humans have to understand everything. Side affect of the knowledge tree I suppose. Other then King Solomon there really isn't any connections. I just assume because its professed by the Bible it wouldn't mean nothing until then. Either way its no number I want to be around or any where near my body.

 

[reba]

we people tend to make 666 say what we want it to say... Then we have this big idea we have a 'key' to a deeper understanding of God's Word..

 

[Brother Mike]

we people tend to make 666 say what we want it to say... Then we have this big idea we have a 'key' to a deeper understanding of God's Word..

It can't be near as complicated as people make it. Unless your a preterist, this event is yet to happen, and to think someone can figure it all out based on a couple scriptures would be pretty amazing.

 

[Sinthesis]

Rev 13:18 - Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.​

χξϚ Strong's Number G5516 matches the Greek χξϚ (chi-xi-stigma)

Technically it is not 666, but actually 600, and 60, and 6.

Unless your bible translation gives it as 616, and some do, which itself is a clue to the identity of the beast.

 

[Brother Mike]

Rev 13:18 - Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.​

χξϚ Strong's Number G5516 matches the Greek χξϚ (chi-xi-stigma)

Technically it is not 666, but actually 600, and 60, and 6.

Unless your bible translation gives it as 616, and some do, which itself is a clue to the identity of the beast.

Good point, does anything in scripture tell us to ADD those up? "For those who have wisdom, ADD the numbers....."
The Mayan numbers in their charms all add up to 666. There are all sorts of things you can do with the number.

 

[Deborah13]

Good point, does anything in scripture tell us to ADD those up? "For those who have wisdom, ADD the numbers....."
The Mayan numbers in their charms all add up to 666. There are all sorts of things you can do with the number.

Forget about Mayan numbers and all that pagan junk, that many times has been corrupted in order to confuse the masses.

My suggestion would not be to look at a number. Look at the kings. That is the description of the one the number belongs to.
Rev 13:18 Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man it is, and its number is six hundred and sixty six.
Rev 17:9 `Here is the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,
Rev 17:10 and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come, and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;
Rev 17:11 and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.

 

[Brother Mike]

Forget about Mayan numbers and all that pagan junk, that many times has been corrupted in order to confuse the masses.

My suggestion would not be to look at a number. Look at the kings. That is the description of the one the number belongs to.
Rev 13:18 Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man it is, and its number is six hundred and sixty six.
Rev 17:9 `Here is the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,
Rev 17:10 and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come, and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;
Rev 17:11 and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.

My point was just saying that folks can use math and make things any way they want to make them. I already said I believe the number is related to someone in charge, or associated with that someone as it's their number.

Be blessed.

 

[Deborah13]

My point was just saying that folks can use math and make things any way they want to make them. I already said I believe the number is related to someone in charge, or associated with that someone as it's their number.

Be blessed.

I was agreeing with you about the number thing. I was bouncing off your post adding about the kings. Is there a nation or empire that has had the five kings, etc....?
If not what are we looking at? It takes years for a nation to go through five, six, seven, eight kings. Even for an empire. If the Lord is coming very soon, we should be able, already, to identify who/what these kings are/were, shouldn't we?
We have all kinds of access to history, old and new, huge data files, etc. It just seems to me that seeing the scripture clearly wants the kings to be identified, then it shouldn't be concealed, if the time is at hand.

 

[Brother Mike]

I was agreeing with you about the number thing. I was bouncing off your post adding about the kings. Is there a nation or empire that has had the five kings, etc....?
If not what are we looking at? It takes years for a nation to go through five, six, seven, eight kings. Even for an empire. If the Lord is coming very soon, we should be able, already, to identify who/what these kings are/were, shouldn't we?
We have all kinds of access to history, old and new, huge data files, etc. It just seems to me that seeing the scripture clearly wants the kings to be identified, then it shouldn't be concealed, if the time is at hand.

That's a good question, one would think let him who has understanding would be us.
Rev 13 talks about the best coming out of the sea having seven heads, 10 horns. Comparing Danial this very well could mean nations.

So we have 1 Beast. Most likely nations.
We have 1 Dragon who gives power to the beast, gives power to make war with the saints.

Then, out comes this

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(Rev 13:11-12)

This lamb looking thing that speaks like a Dragon has the power (Given by Mr Dragon I assume) causes the earth to worship the first beast which we thought to be nations, but did it switch to singular, or people just follow and obey those nations.

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(Rev 13:14-17)

So this lamb beast has an image made of a head of the first beast (Nations?) and folks have to worship that image and take the number of the Lamb beast, the name of the lamb beast.

This lamb beast has to be a man, as it's a number of "A" man, Rally's back people to side with the first beast (Nations?) and is empowered by the Dragon.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(2Th 2:3-6)

So, it appears this lamb beast with his mark has a time to be revealed.

Depending on how you translate the Greek Female noun Apostasia will determine if you are even here on earth when it all goes down.

If your preterist, then no worries, this is long in the past.

 

[Deborah13]

Depending on how you translate the Greek Female noun Apostasia will determine if you are even here on earth when it all goes down.

Is there more than one definition?

 

[Brother Mike]

Is there more than one definition?

I it's translated to the English noun Apostasy, then it means we will be around when the Son of Perdition shows up, and Paul is speaking for the first and only time of some mass church Apostasy, in Which Jesus is not able to present himself a glorious church, the church is part of the apostasy, and the gates of hell has run the church over.

If you translate it as Apo-Stasis, then it means to depart from a position previous held, or the coming of the Lord Jesus, there shall be a departure (Apostasia) first before the Son of perdition is revealed.

Another issue is a Greek Female noun could not tell what it departed from. Like wedding, but who's? Faith, but faith in what?

 

[Deborah13]

If you translate it as Apo-Stasis, then it means to depart from a position previous held, or the coming of the Lord Jesus, there shall be a departure (Apostasia) first before the Son of perdition is revealed.

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
G647
ἀποστάσιον
apostasion
ap-os-tas'-ee-on
Neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly something separative, that is, (specifically) divorce: - (writing of) divorcement.
G868
ἀφίστημι
aphistēmi
af-is'-tay-mee
From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
G575
ἀπό
apo
apo'
A primary particle; “off”, that is, away (from something near), in
G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his'-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively

An example would be the author of Hebrews warning to the Jews, who had professed their faith in Christ, about forsaking the faith and returning to the temple worship. (Hebrews 10:28-31).
To me it doesn't sound good no matter how I look at it.

 

[Brother Mike]

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah.

Strong Word Study:
646apostasía (from 868/aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from575/apó, "away from" and 2476/histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previousstanding."

parapiptō The Greek Verb would be used as it means to fall aside which is true.

You have to be careful using the Strong and Thayer dictionary Greek. You need the Word study also because the Strongs and Thayer are just definitions based on how a word might be used, not the break down of the word. In other words, the words are translated based on a man's doctrine and how they feel the Word is used in Scriptures.

There is nothing in Apostasia that means leaving from what is true. It just means to depart from where one stood, and could be used with a noun to determine what was departed from.

For example Theos.......... God

Thayer:
Thayer Definition:
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity

Strongs:
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

Strong was not a Trinity supporter.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

You have to be careful using the Strong and Thayer dictionary Greek. You need the Word study also because the Strongs and Thayer are just definitions based on how a word might be used, not the break down of the word. In other words, the words are translated based on a man's doctrine and how they feel the Word is used in Scriptures.

Strong was not a Trinity supporter.

Strong's concordance was put together by something like 100 different men, he didn't do it by himself. Neither was it intended to represent any doctrine, that is why it gives the definition and usages in the Greek language and different usages in the Bible without doctrines. The definition of theos does not equal trinity in the Greek language, it just doesn't. The word trinity doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. So none of the Bible scholars who translated any of the Bibles believed the theos meant trinity, or they would have translated it as trinity. So they agree with Strong's.
The word we are discussing is used only twice in the NT.
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Here it is definitely talking about a 'religious apostasy' a forsaking.
Of the numerous times it, and other forms of it, are used in the LXX, at least from every verse I have read, it refers to some type of religious or government departure in rebellion. It is never about leaving from one space or place to another space or place.
But I am not a Greek scholar and have to just read the arguments for and against, say as you do. In Greek literature, I have read, that it does not appear in any spatial context before the 5 or 6th century.

I find it odd that Paul would refer to the 'catch away' by a very clear term in one reference and a completely different and unclear term in another.

 

[Brother Mike]

Strong's concordance was put together by something like 100 different men, he didn't do it by himself. Neither was it intended to represent any doctrine, that is why it gives the definition and usages in the Greek language and different usages in the Bible without doctrines. The definition of theos does not equal trinity in the Greek language, it just doesn't. The word trinity doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. So none of the Bible scholars who translated any of the Bibles believed the theos meant trinity, or they would have translated it as trinity. So they agree with Strong's.
The word we are discussing is used only twice in the NT.
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Here it is definitely talking about a 'religious apostasy' a forsaking.
Of the numerous times it, and other forms of it, are used in the LXX, at least from every verse I have read, it refers to some type of religious or government departure in rebellion. It is never about leaving from one space or place to another space or place.
But I am not a Greek scholar and have to just read the arguments for and against, say as you do. In Greek literature, I have read, that it does not appear in any spatial context before the 5 or 6th century.

I find it odd that Paul would refer to the 'catch away' by a very clear term in one reference and a completely different and unclear term in another.

Being the type of Noun it is, a Female Greek noun gives it away and the compound words it's comprised of. None of them denote any "Forsaking" Truth. To define the Female noun, it needs to be defined by what it refers to. So the female noun could not define it's relationship to something.

The forsake Moses............. They left Moses.
They forsake the gospel......... The turned from the gospel.

There is nothing in the noun denoting what it departs from.

A door is a Greek female noun, but without the Male, you don't know what it's a door to.

Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
(2Th 2:1-3)

The whole subject of the article is what connection to events is the coming of Christ and our gathering to him. It must be before the Son of perdition is revealed.

Falling away would have also worked.

2Th 2:3 ne quis vos seducat ullo modo quoniam nisi venerit discessio primum et revelatus fuerit homo peccati filius perditionis

The latin, Discessio is translated withdraw, depart, dispersion, Going.