Obedience to The Faith

[francisdesales]

Preposterous! No where have I indicated that salvation is universal.

Jesus died for the sins of all the world but only a few believe it.

RichardBurger.....
Universal atonement, yet limited salvation based upon the synergism of mans faith.

Francis....
I think you correctly raise the issue of original sin? My gut feeling is that Richard will not go the path of Trent with prevenient grace. Westley took that path. I hope you do not let the point slide away. I dont know where RichardBurger will go with this, nor do I know where you will. But it will be amusing to see where two different but similar synergists go with this.

I agree with your words to Richard, but am not sure if this discussion has broached the subject of prevenient grace yet...! We have discussed this previously, and I still feel we are in pretty good agreement over this - I had previously said that Calvin had some Catholic tendencies and points of agreement. For the purpose of this thread, I would think you are in more agreement with me and Adullam.

Regards

 

[mondar]

...I had previously said that Calvin had some Catholic tendencies and points of agreement. For the purpose of this thread, I would think you are in more agreement with me and Adullam.

Regards

LOL, oddly enough this very issue comes up with some of my Presbyterian brothers in the Lord. They smile with glee when they say that Reformed Baptists are only partially reformed, and that Calvin taught infant Baptism. I might let a smirk slip when I next see them again. I might retort that "Calvin had some Catholic tendencies."

Ahh, those ornery Baptists!

 

[francisdesales]

...I had previously said that Calvin had some Catholic tendencies and points of agreement. For the purpose of this thread, I would think you are in more agreement with me and Adullam.

LOL, oddly enough this very issue comes up with some of my Presbyterian brothers in the Lord. They smile with glee when they say that Reformed Baptists are only partially reformed, and that Calvin taught infant Baptism. I might let a smirk slip when I next see them again. I might retort that "Calvin had some Catholic tendencies."

Ahh, those ornery Baptists!

It is quite interesting on some of the stances of the classic Reformers and how they differed...

I think you might run into a buzzsaw if you mention "Calvin" and "Catholic" in the same sentence as agreeing...! Sometimes I wonder if people believe in things just because it makes them "less Catholic", in their mind...

Regards

 

[RichardBurger]

You used the word "US" Are you ganging up on me?

I don't see anyone else presenting your point of view, and there are two of us active in this thread who oppose your interpretations of Scriptures. Thus, the "us".

Regards

And you were quick to point that out so that you could denigrate my message. You think that because there are two my message is wrong.

You must take solace in the fact that some agree with you. It make no difference to me. I am well aware that it was the many that had Jesus crucified, Stephen stoned to death, Paul stoned and the many that plotted Paul’s death in Acts 20-21.

I also know that the Scriptures teach that it is the few that find their way to God and the many that find their way to Hell. --- And I also know that there are few on Forums that teach the truth in Christ. They teach religious works of men. They glory in works of religion.

There are a few that believe as I do. They are either not on this forum thread or Forum or they are silent for fear of persecution by the others. Many Jews believed in Jesus but they did not admit it for fear of being cast out of the Synagogue. --- I have no fear of being banded from a forum. I have been banded from many of them for one reason or another.

But I will not be silenced.

 

[Adullam]

You used the word "US" Are you ganging up on me?

I don't see anyone else presenting your point of view, and there are two of us active in this thread who oppose your interpretations of Scriptures. Thus, the "us".

Regards

And you were quick to point that out so that you could denigrate my message. You think that because there are two my message is wrong.

You must take solace in the fact that some agree with you. It make no difference to me. I am well aware that it was the many that had Jesus crucified, Stephen stoned to death, Paul stoned and the many that plotted Paul’s death in Acts 20-21.

I also know that the Scriptures teach that it is the few that find their way to God and the many that find their way to Hell. --- And I also know that there are few on Forums that teach the truth in Christ. They teach religious works of men. They glory in works of religion.

There are a few that believe as I do. They are either not on this forum thread or Forum or they are silent for fear of persecution by the others. Many Jews believed in Jesus but they did not admit it for fear of being cast out of the Synagogue. --- I have no fear of being banded from a forum. I have been banded from many of them for one reason or another.

But I will not be silenced.

The simplicity which is in Christ implies purity and sincerity of purpose. It does not mean that the message of Christ is simplistic. It requires inspiration of the Holy Spirit to plumb the depths of the message of the kingdom.

There are many that believe as you do. You see the law as evil rather than holy. Do you think that it is mere coincidence that Jesus rejects many who call Him Lord for being lawless.

The whole point of grace is to empower us to obey the laws of God. We cannot love as Jesus loved without His divine nature within us. What we are unable to do, He can do through us.

If Christ truly reigned in our hearts and minds we could echo with Paul...

It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me"


The Way in Christ is so much more than an assent of an historical fact. Don't stop seeking. Keep going. What begins with facts can become faith when you ACT on them. Notice that there is a book called the ACTS of the Apostles and not the FAITH of the apostles.

Seeking is an act....knocking is an act...asking is an act....these are acts of faith. Try putting your faith into action and see what happens. Faith is meant to be used like money in your pocket to buy things from God. Money in the bank is like a buried talent. It is wasted. Spend the faith you have...don't just look at it and admire it. Don't glory in what you have been given, however little that might seem...use it! In the kingdom of God if you don't use it, you lose it.

 

[francisdesales]

I don't see anyone else presenting your point of view, and there are two of us active in this thread who oppose your interpretations of Scriptures. Thus, the "us".

And you were quick to point that out so that you could denigrate my message. You think that because there are two my message is wrong.

You sound a bit paranoid. You brought up my use of the word "us". I am explaining the simple fact that there are two people who agree here, and that necessitates the use of the plural. Do you oppose the use of proper grammar, as well as proper interpretation of Scriptures???

You must take solace in the fact that some agree with you. It make no difference to me. I am well aware that it was the many that had Jesus crucified, Stephen stoned to death, Paul stoned and the many that plotted Paul’s death in Acts 20-21.

I also know that the Scriptures teach that it is the few that find their way to God and the many that find their way to Hell. --- And I also know that there are few on Forums that teach the truth in Christ. They teach religious works of men. They glory in works of religion.

Ok, this is nice rhetoric, but is getting off topic, don't you think? This has nothing to do with being in the majority or the minority. The later doesn't bother me, being one of perhaps three Catholics on this forum who are active... I live with it, and I am sure you can, as well.

Rather than simply ignoring all the Scriptures that condemn your interpretation, maybe you should address some of them, the ones that speak about the necessity of obeying the Will of the Father, which includes obeying His commands - is that too much to ask? Can you cite where the scriptures tell us we can sin as we please because of the works of Christ?

There are a few that believe as I do. They are either not on this forum thread or Forum or they are silent for fear of persecution by the others. Many Jews believed in Jesus but they did not admit it for fear of being cast out of the Synagogue. --- I have no fear of being banded from a forum. I have been banded from many of them for one reason or another.

But I will not be silenced.

What are you talking about, being banned? Drop the persecution complex already. You are simply wrong, but that doesn't mean you'll be banned. This conversation comes up every so often, it is a common mistake. It is a total misundertsanding of what "salvation" really means...

But very few are able to go too far with it, when confronted with Scriptures. I suppose theat is the case here, as well, since you are adept at ignoring Scriptures that are posted here... I have nothing further to add to Addulam's last post, it was good.

Regards