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Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered..........Some

Iconoclast

Iconoclast

 
Member
Many objections to the absoluteness of God's sovereignty over life and salvation have arisen and spread over several threads.

Solid answers must be offered to stem the tide of sub-biblical thought being addressed.

Some objections are about the doctrine itself.

Some who have failed to make headway with the doctrine,attack the Reformed people.

Some obscure clear bible verses.

Some offer emotional rather than biblical answers.

Some have been poorly instructed.

Some have not received instruction,

Some have rejected the instruction.

Some object to the means of grace.

Some believe they need no teaching.

Some God has not allowed to welcome truth yet.

Some will never welcome truth at all.They will be religious but fatally flawed.

We will seek to investigate all of these.
 
I'm not reformed but God is sovereign. He controls what happens.doesnt make men sin but allows it and uses sin to teach his saints .

Every get mad at that slow driver ?
God didn't kill you or that person ,he didn't let another one change that event .it's to show You have sin and go repent .

All that we go through is a training session to build us .
 
Iconoclast said:
Many objections to the absoluteness of God's sovereignty over life and salvation have arisen and spread over several threads.

Solid answers must be offered to stem the tide of sub-biblical thought being addressed.

Some objections are about the doctrine itself.

Some who have failed to make headway with the doctrine,attack the Reformed people.

Some obscure clear bible verses.

Some offer emotional rather than biblical answers.

Some have been poorly instructed.

Some have not received instruction,

Some have rejected the instruction.

Some object to the means of grace.

Some believe they need no teaching.

Some God has not allowed to welcome truth yet.

Some will never welcome truth at all.They will be religious but fatally flawed.

We will seek to investigate all of these.
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You've placed this is theology.
The study of God.
I'm willing to bet that every Christian on this board agrees that God is sovereign.

So, what's the next step?
 
What are some of the objections that are in view?
The names of those who object are not revealed to protect them.
Here are some objections that we can see any day, on many discussion boards.

1]We don't believe God does the choosing.
2]We believe that God reveals Himself and the person gets to choose if they wish to obey God or not.
3]
jasonc said:
I'm not reformed but God is sovereign. He controls what happens.doesnt make men sin but allows it and uses sin to teach his saints .

Every get mad at that slow driver ?
God didn't kill you or that person ,he didn't let another one change that event .it's to show You have sin and go repent .

All that we go through is a training session to build us .
Click to expand...
Hello Jason
Be the best believer and serve God just as you are. Do not worry about the label now.
I use labels because that saves time to identify views on theology.
All Christians are really Calvinists but they just do not fully know it yet.
In time God will clarify it when they see actual teaching and not caricatures that distort truth.
I have heard many people who said at first they hated the teaching, who now have seen it and are strong advocates of it.
Bring your strongest questions and objections. We will remove some obstacles for you, but God gives the increase!
 
Iconoclast said:
What are some of the objections that are in view?
The names of those who object are not revealed to protect them.
Here are some objections that we can see any day, on many discussion boards.

1]We don't believe God does the choosing.
2]We believe that God reveals Himself and the person gets to choose if they wish to obey God or not.
3]

Hello Jason
Be the best believer and serve God just as you are. Do not worry about the label now.
I use labels because that saves time to identify views on theology.
All Christians are really Calvinists but they just do not fully know it yet.
In time God will clarify it when they see actual teaching and not caricatures that distort truth.
I have heard many people who said at first they hated the teaching, who now have seen it and are strong advocates of it.
Bring your strongest questions and objections. We will remove some obstacles for you, but God gives the increase!
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You do know that I attend a reformed church and run the sound .

Let me see I can post last week's sermon . You might see me in that video .I wasn't running sound
 
My view is that it is neither as our mind cant grasp the infinite ways God acts and how he saves .


I just post in these threads to debunk the extreme views and also errors said about the reformed .
 
wondering said:
You've placed this is theology.
The study of God.
I'm willing to bet that every Christian on this board agrees that God is sovereign.

So, what's the next step?
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I have been doing this a long time. Any one who has been a Christian will agree if asked do they believe God is sovereign. Reformed people see it everywhere, all parts of life, over all men and over the will of man. Not everyone agrees with that as we know.:rolleyes We will offer on all these topics.
 
jasonc said:
You do know that I attend a reformed church and run the sound .

Let me see I can post last week's sermon . You might see me in that video .I wasn't running sound
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Not up yet but one elder has a video on something along these lines and he leads the ministry to reach the lost .
 
jasonc said:
You do know that I attend a reformed church and run the sound .

Let me see I can post last week's sermon . You might see me in that video .I wasn't running sound
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Lol, I do now remember that, but I do forget some things as I am getting older, lol
Even in a "reformed church" it does not guarantee what teaching God allows a person to welcome.
Jason I am still in a learning posture. We have a responsibility to unsaved persons to do all we can to show Christ to them as the only hope. Use every means of grace to take in as much scriptural info, in order to help those still outside of Christ.
 
Iconoclast said:
Many objections to the absoluteness of God's sovereignty over life and salvation have arisen and spread over several threads.

Solid answers must be offered to stem the tide of sub-biblical thought being addressed.

Some objections are about the doctrine itself.

Some who have failed to make headway with the doctrine,attack the Reformed people.

Some obscure clear bible verses.

Some offer emotional rather than biblical answers.

Some have been poorly instructed.

Some have not received instruction,

Some have rejected the instruction.

Some object to the means of grace.

Some believe they need no teaching.

Some God has not allowed to welcome truth yet.

Some will never welcome truth at all.They will be religious but fatally flawed.

We will seek to investigate all of these.
Click to expand...

www.soteriology101.com
 
electedbyhim said:
Opposition to divine sovereignty is essentially atheism.

C.H. Spurgeon
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CHS....had so much wisdom, I have all of his sermons. When I was a young Christian I had a pastor advise me if I was ever going to read outside my bible, to read Spurgeon because he as totally Christ centered.
He was right!
 
Iconoclast said:
Lol, I do now remember that, but I do forget some things as I am getting older, lol
Even in a "reformed church" it does not guarantee what teaching God allows a person to welcome.
Jason I am still in a learning posture. We have a responsibility to unsaved persons to do all we can to show Christ to them as the only hope. Use every means of grace to take in as much scriptural info, in order to help those still outside of Christ.
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Watch the video by Dennis .

He mentioned election , predestination and also indirectly perseverance of the saints.

My elders and I know one deacon for sure are reformed and they aren't caged but will correct improper doctrine.

They know as Dennis ,my pastor and one other elder that I'm not reformed but I don't undermine them the earlier post is my own way of saying what they say .I also believe that
 
Tenchi said:
www.soteriology101.com
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Hello Tenchi
I am more than well aware of Leighton. I interacted with him for over 4 years.
He is a nice guy. I knew him before he started his 101.
I know what he does, inside out. I literally posted with him for almost 4 years in a row .
I know all about his "response"- able"...his choice meats, etc.
I encouraged him when he was supposed to debate Dr.James White, on Romans 9.
He showed up physically but was quickly exposed as he could not exegete the passage.
What he did was a disgrace, I will post it for you.
Dr. White corrects his errors on the Alpha and Omega Dividing Line podcast.
enjoy;
I do not doubt he believes he was a Calvinist, however when we would go back and forth with several other people...he said things that NO Calvinist would ever say.
he went by the handle...Skandelon from 2011- 2015
 
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Here is a common objection;
{One other thing I've noticed: Reformed proponents are often extremely condescending and nasty. Though they propound the "doctrines of grace" they are themselves very ungracious toward their detractors.]

This objection is more directed at the people than the doctrine.
It can be a true observation, or not.
However, I have seen this on both sides of the issue.
I have also seen that when a non cal tries and fails to respond biblically to the reformed teachings they attack the man as if by claiming rudeness or arrogance they will cover up the fact that their false ideas were dismantled and exposed as false. To try and save face, they deflect saying the Calvinist who corrected them was rude and arrogant, when in fact he simply answered biblically
 
Iconoclast said:
Many objections to the absoluteness of God's sovereignty over life and salvation have arisen and spread over several threads.

Solid answers must be offered to stem the tide of sub-biblical thought being addressed.

Some objections are about the doctrine itself.

Some who have failed to make headway with the doctrine,attack the Reformed people.

Some obscure clear bible verses.

Some offer emotional rather than biblical answers.

Some have been poorly instructed.

Some have not received instruction,

Some have rejected the instruction.

Some object to the means of grace.

Some believe they need no teaching.

Some God has not allowed to welcome truth yet.

Some will never welcome truth at all.They will be religious but fatally flawed.

We will seek to investigate all of these.
Click to expand...
God is sovereign only within his just holy nature. God is not a sinner, nor can he be unrighteous.
 
Here are solid brothers dealing with Leightons errors

In "Point #5" on the "soteriology101.com" site, it is said:
What the Calvinist fails to see is that sovereignty is not an eternal attribute of God. Sovereignty means “complete rule or dominion over creation.” For God to be in control over creation there has to be something created in which to control. He cannot display His power over creatures unless the creatures exist. Therefore, before creation the concept of sovereignty was not an attribute that could be used to describe God. An eternal attribute is something God possesses that is not contingent upon something else. (emphasis mine)
While I would encourage the reading of "Point #5" to a much fuller degree than this excerpt, the highlighted statement is deeply troubling.

The Archangel
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#2The Archangel, Dec 30, 2014
Skandelon

Skandelon<b>Moderator</b>​


Rippon said: ↑
No one would be saved unless the Lord intercedes. He specializes in changing stony heats into hearts of flesh. The will of man is in direct opposition to the will of the Lord. The Lord must change man's will or their is no hope.
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1. The Lord does intercede. That is the heart of the gospel. That appeal to be reconciled is sufficient to enable a response from those God holds response-able. Why wouldn't the gospel be sufficient?
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Skandelon said: ↑
Who, if not God, decided that the consequence of the Fall would result in the loss of man's ability to willingly respond to God's revelation?

Was this the only option available to God, in that He could not help that the result of sin would leave all men totally depraved to the point of being unable to willingly believe or repent even when asked to do so by God Himself?

Or was this God's determination, plain and simple?

I ask this because Calvinists take different sides of this issue and I'd like to hear arguments for both sides.
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This question fails to consider finer points. In general God is Sovereign over all and that Soveriegnty is expressed either by permission in the case of evil or by delight as in the case of righteousness.

In regard to the fall there are primary and immediate causes. In regard to conseqences of sin the rule of "whatsoever a man sowth that shall he also reap" or natural consequences come into play.

God did not design His righteousness because He IS righteous and therefore God did not design sin as sin IS the absence of righteousness.

God could not design another God equal to Himself and therefore all that God could create are DEPENDENT beings as no other Being could be the source of life, self-sustaining, and immutable. Thus God did not design death as death IS separation from God which is not a matter of design but a matter of STATE or CONDITION without God. God's design of free will necessarily gave permission for the wrong decision which by definition is contrary to the revealed will of God which is by nature based upon His own righteousness and thus not a matter of design but a matter of NATURE that is immutable.

God certainly designed hell and gehenna as PLACES for evil beings.
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#7The Biblicist, Jan 13, 2014
Skandelon said: ↑
So, Go PERMITTED man to become totally unable to willingly respond to His own revelation? Is that an accurate summary?
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Lol! No, that is not an accurate summary. That is a summary of wishful thinking on your part.

God permitted sin by an accountable representative of the human race. Sin inherently contains it own consequences that need not design but are natural consequences of what sin is by nature. His revelation is not given to sinners in general but to His elect in specific.
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#9The Biblicist, Jan 13, 2014
 
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