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Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered..........Some

Dorothy Mae said:
In the end, God will be the judge of who came to a knowledge of His truth and who stuck to more comfortable thinking they got from human “authorities.”
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In the end ... it is not WHAT we know, but WHO knows us:
  • [NASB] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; LEAVE ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
  • [NASB] But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
  • [NLT] For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.
 
Premise 1:
atpollard said:
[NLT] For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son
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Premise 2: From nothing, nothing comes and such were we per premise 1
Conclusion: God "advanced" knowledge of us come only come from Himself; thus He must have determined that it be so
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Premise 1:

Premise 2: From nothing, nothing comes and such were we per premise 1
Conclusion: God "advanced" knowledge of us come only come from Himself; thus He must have determined that it be so
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Conclusion lacks the obvious truth that knowing does NOT equal causing. An education teaches a man many things, most of which he doesn’t cause. This is something your theology has blinded you from seeing.
 
wondering said:
This is not an emotional answer Iconoclast.
It's an answer based on logic.
This is also how I feel regarding reformed theology.

I absolutely could not worship a God that creates humans for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal torment.

I know you believe in predestination....and I'm using the word the way YOU explained it to me so there could be no misunderstanding.

Predestine means to save some persons and to pass over others, thus not saving them.
AND FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

Yes, in caps because that is a very important component of the unjust manner in which, in your theology, God sends persons to hell.

If God is PASSING OVER some - those are going to hell.

So we're dealing with double predestination.

It's indeed a mystery to me as to why you cannot see this...
it's simple logic.

This makes God be unjust and we know from scripture that we have a JUST God.
Would you trust an unjust police officer?
An unjust teacher?
I'm sure you wouldn't.

All the more for Almighty God.
The CREATOR of justice.
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I did say what you post here.You want to blame God for man's sin. You twist what is revealed in scripture because you do not like it at an emotional level.
 
Iconoclast said:
There is no invisible church!
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The Bible never uses the term visible church or invisible church. But the idea of the visible church versus the invisible church is a natural result of a biblical understanding of the doctrine of salvation. The visible church is the expression of Christianity that people can see: the gathering and practices of the individuals in various church buildings on Sundays. The invisible church is the true church, which only God can see: born-again believers, past, present, and future. Because not everyone who attends church or performs religious deeds is saved, the visible church includes unbelievers. The invisible church is comprised of the redeemed and sealed by God. https://www.gotquestions.org/visible-invisible-church.html
 
Fastfredy0 said:
The Bible never uses the term visible church or invisible church. But the idea of the visible church versus the invisible church is a natural result of a biblical understanding of the doctrine of salvation. The visible church is the expression of Christianity that people can see: the gathering and practices of the individuals in various church buildings on Sundays. The invisible church is the true church, which only God can see: born-again believers, past, present, and future. Because not everyone who attends church or performs religious deeds is saved, the visible church includes unbelievers. The invisible church is comprised of the redeemed and sealed by God. https://www.gotquestions.org/visible-invisible-church.html
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When you define things biblically it sorts it out.
A church is saved persons who assemble in a location, under authority of elders hip.
Random saved persons are Kingdom members.
What we look to is a visible assembly on the last day.
Things to consider;
Who are the pastors and deacons of they invisible church?
Is there an invisible baptism?
Lord's supper?
Church discipline?
Care of widows and orphans?
 
Iconoclast said:
When you define things biblically it sorts it out.
A church is saved persons who assemble in a location, under authority of elders hip.
Random saved persons are Kingdom members.
What we look to is a visible assembly on the last day.
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Well, as I stated one cannot find the term "invisible church" in the bible. Neither can you find the term TRINITY. Both words are man made to aid communication. You can't find the word FLAMINGO in the bible either, but they do exist and the term is man made to add discussion.
Logically, and INVISIBLE CHURCH must exist even though the bible doesn't mention the concept.

Iconoclast said:
Things to consider;
Who are the pastors and deacons of they invisible church?
Is there an invisible baptism?
Lord's supper?
Church discipline?
Care of widows and orphans?
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The term "Invisible Church" does not in its definition speak about this things. One does not consider abstractions.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, as I stated one cannot find the term "invisible church" in the bible. Neither can you find the term TRINITY. Both words are man made to aid communication. You can't find the word FLAMINGO in the bible either, but they do exist and the term is man made to add discussion.



You started out good but adding a flamingo
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This is so poor analysis.
You started out good but adding a flamingo went so bad.
It is apples and oranges.
 
You
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, as I stated one cannot find the term "invisible church" in the bible. Neither can you find the term TRINITY. Both words are man made to aid communication. You can't find the word FLAMINGO in the bible either, but they do exist and the term is man made to add discussion.
Logically, and INVISIBLE CHURCH must exist even though the bible doesn't mention the concept.


The term "Invisible Church" does not in its definition speak about this things. One does not consider abstractions.
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An unassembled assembly is the abstraction.you can speak that way like using the generic term....the jury.
Which jury?
The OJ jury?
The church at Cornith?
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Well, as I stated one cannot find the term "invisible church" in the bible. Neither can you find the term TRINITY. Both words are man made to aid communication. You can't find the word FLAMINGO in the bible either, but they do exist and the term is man made to add discussion.
Logically, and INVISIBLE CHURCH must exist even though the bible doesn't mention the concept.


The term "Invisible Church" does not in its definition speak about this things. One does not consider abstractions.
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I agree. It’s a really silly argument to say that because a certain English word isn’t in the Bible, the matter it describes doesn’t exist.
 
Iconoclast said:
A church is saved persons who assemble in a location, under authority of elders hip.
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To the ELDERS at the Church of Ephesus, Paul wrote:

"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.” - Act 20:28-31 [NKJV]

The church (“visible” … that which we see) is a more complex thing than the “Body of Christ” (which only God can see). The “savage wolves” and “men speaking perverse things” are in the church (so Paul warns us through Luke), yet surely they are not in the “Body of Christ” (aka. “the Invisible Church”).
 
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