[__ Science __ ] Old Earth vs. Young Earth

[Rodger]

You're a genius to me, Roger! ;) Thanks...I guess!

LOL.........you better save that kind of stuff for someone who is easily impressed.

50 years ago, I spent hour after hour in a library to learn stuff. Now I can sit at my desk with BUBU in my lap and read from a computer.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Ask those who accept the Persian Guld Paradise story that Elijah7777 posted.

its why it is called a theory and not science.

no one was around 100,00 years ago. if the earth was even here. so no one can accurately determine how old something is past a certain point that is known ..

 

[daddd]

I hear you but you did not answer the question at hand. You gave a personal opinion without giving a remedy.

Yes, the answer to the question was that actual science has nothing at all to do with origin 'sciences' that are a con job and science in name only. There is a difference between faith based origin models based on a fraction of the picture and actual science that is based on testing and repeating and knowing. No relation except in name

 

[Free]

You said this
"
For young earthers, day one necessarily begins in either verse 1 or verse 2.
If verse 2, that leaves verse 1 as a general statement that God created everything, and all that follows provides the details of what occurred in verse 1. So, verse 2 is not necessarily a continuation of verse 1, but a detailed reiteration and explanation. (Just like how the general statement of the creation of man and woman in Gen. 1:27 is detailed in chapter 2.) However, that ignores the fact that days two through six begin with "And God said," suggesting that day one begins in verse 3.

My point is that the earth, along with the rest of the universe, could have been created in verse 1, but was only created to the point of being "without form and void;" merely water and rock (verse 2). Further specific creation to allow for human and animal habitation was then done in days one to six. Hence why it is possible that day one begins in verse 3"

The first day when it was created is where it began. So why would we look to some verse after that somewhere and assume that could really the the beginning? We know the heaven and earth was created and then He did some various other things like create life on it. The total is six days. You can't hack of verse one and separate it.

If you read everything I wrote, you would see that I didn't make those statements in a vacuum. It is no more an assumption that day one begins in verse 3 than it is that it begins in verse 1. Again, one issue is that each of the days from two to six begins with "And God said," but that doesn't happen until verse 3. That could be understood to mean that day one doesn't start until verse 3, giving an indefinite period of time between verses 1 and 2, and or 2 and 3.

Another issue is the lack of definite articles for days one to five. That could suggest that the days aren't consecutive 24-hr days; they are merely a chronological sequence of days which could be separated by many thousands of years.

We do also have "day," yom, being used elsewhere in Scripture with several different meanings, including an indefinite period of time.

There is also "day" and "night," "morning" and "evening," prior to day four, when God "God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars" (v. 16, ESV).

All I am saying is that there are textual issues, often missed or glossed over by young earthers, that open the door for various, legitimate understandings of the text of Genesis 1 to support an old earth. The Bible does not tell us how old the earth is and so to assume a young earth is the only correct understanding is wrong.

 

[hawkman]

First of all, I do not know. I have NO idea. I was simply trying to develop discussions.
However, would you agree that God created them out of love for humanity? Think of all the "Bio- deposits" we as humans have used through time.

Actually I would believe the dino's deposits would be a very very small fraction when compared to the deposits from the vegetation . Of course God shows his love to in so many ways that I am sure we miss many of them everyday .

I believe God created the Dinosaurs and you seem to also .

Did God tell us He created the Dinosaurs when He told us of creation In Gen 1 , in your opinion ?

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Elijah7777]

And when so called 'understanding' about where it all came from is based solely on the processes existing after the fact of creation, they cannot tell us about creation. Only about how some of it that we are aware of now works.

Exactly. Science is agnostic. They have to admit that the Bible could be true. Because there is nothing to show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true. They try but they fail to accomplish their objective.

 

[Elijah7777]

It is no more an assumption that day one begins in verse 3 than it is that it begins in verse 1.

The key here is the word "Beginning". In this case we are told the beginning of "the heavens and the earth." Science tells us that we are star dust. The elements that make us up were created in the furnace of a star that lived out its life and exploded. All of that takes up the 8 billion years of day one.

You can say that God created Adam from the dust of the ground. Wonderful but where did that dust come from?

• The first day of Genesis covers about 8 billion years.
• The second day spans 4 billion years.
• The third day lasts 2 billion years, and so on.
• By the sixth day, time compresses to about 1/4 billion years

 

[Rodger]

No, I'm a conservative believer in the inspiration of Scriptures, as well as its authority. The biblical account is given in the environment of a primitive people who observe things with their eye, and not with a scientific outlook. The account is entirely true, except that we today, in our scientific world, think that "earth" means "globe." It didn't mean that to the people who wrote Genesis. "Earth" referred to "land" that had been brought into existence as a home for Man.

If you cann't finish reading, don't ask me for an explanation.

Moses is traditionally believed to have received information about creation through divine revelation.

May I say to you that we need to understand that Moses who wrote the 1st five books of the Bible was not around to witnesses the Creation or the flood. I think that we must also acknowledge the possibility that Moses drew upon existing oral traditions passed down through generations. The stories of creation, Adam and Eve, and the early patriarchs may have been preserved within the Israelite community, transmitted from father to son, from generation to generation by moth

Actually I would believe the dino's deposits would be a very very small fraction when compared to the deposits from the vegetation . Of course God shows his love to in so many ways that I am sure we miss many of them everyday .

I believe God created the Dinosaurs and you seem to also .

Did God tell us He created the Dinosaurs when He told us of creation In Gen 1 , in your opinion ?

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

I agree and have said exactly that.

The question is not did God create dino's, but when were they created?

 

[RandyK]

Moses is traditionally believed to have received information about creation through divine revelation.

Yes, and I don't dispute that. It's just that God may inspire us or speak to us using something we've learned through oral tradition. An example may be how Jude and Peter reference Enoch, a non-canonical work.

But it doesn't really make any difference how God communicated this to Moses. The language was given in the language of primitive times, whether in Moses' time or in Adam's time. Makes no difference whatsoever.

May I say to you that we need to understand that Moses who wrote the 1st five books of the Bible was not around to witnesses the Creation or the flood. I think that we must also acknowledge the possibility that Moses drew upon existing oral traditions passed down through generations. The stories of creation, Adam and Eve, and the early patriarchs may have been preserved within the Israelite community, transmitted from father to son, from generation to generation by moth

Exactly.

 

[Elijah7777]

I think that we must also acknowledge the possibility that Moses drew upon existing oral traditions passed down through generations.

*"As the Word of God has been passed down through generations, it is truly remarkable how well the Bible has been preserved. In ancient times, Scripture was read publicly in synagogues, but personal copies were rare—many people couldn't afford them, and literacy was not widespread.

When Paul says, 'It is written,' he may never have owned a copy of the Psalms himself, relying instead on what was read to him. However, we do know that he had access to books, as Mark brought some to him."

 

[Elijah7777]

Did God tell us He created the Dinosaurs when He told us of creation In Gen 1 ,

Some interpretations suggest that Noah's Flood was a shadow and type of a greater geological event, possibly linked to the breakup of Pangaea. This perspective explored in creationist circles, where some believe that the global flood described in Genesis 6–9 played a role in shaping Earth's continents.

 

[daddd]

If you read everything I wrote, you would see that I didn't make those statements in a vacuum. It is no more an assumption that day one begins in verse 3 than it is that it begins in verse 1.

You could say that about any chapter in the bible. No. The clear reading of Gen 1 is that is was all done in six days

Again, one issue is that each of the days from two to six begins with "And God said," but that doesn't happen until verse 3.

So what? No one said He is limited in how He does things.

That could be understood to mean that day one doesn't start until verse 3, giving an indefinite period of time between verses 1 and 2, and or 2 and 3.

No. There is no reason for that insertion of billions of years of imaginary time. Certainly not because God created on various days in different ways. Forming Adam like pottery is formed from the earth does not mean He did not create Adam Just because He did not speak Adam into popping into existence from nothing

Another issue is the lack of definite articles for days one to five. That could suggest that the days aren't consecutive 24-hr days; they are merely a chronological sequence of days which could be separated by many thousands of years.

No. Why should He have to refer to what already was when He was busy making stuff?

We do also have "day," yom, being used elsewhere in Scripture with several different meanings, including an indefinite period of time.

In the case of Genesis it is qualified by the evening and morning, eliminating such doubts.

There is also "day" and "night," "morning" and "evening," prior to day four, when God "God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars" (v. 16, ESV).

Yes and there will be light in New Jerusalem all the time and no sun is needed. If God created the sun to take His place to provide the light for earth, then it was not needed before that

All I am saying is that there are textual issues, often missed or glossed over by young earthers, that open the door for various, legitimate understandings of the text of Genesis 1 to support an old earth. The Bible does not tell us how old the earth is and so to assume a young earth is the only correct understanding is wrong.

No issues at all but unbelief and doubt.

 

[daddd]

Exactly. Science is agnostic.

No they clearly come out and blaspheme God and creation with claims that it never happened the way He said

They have to admit that the Bible could be true. Because there is nothing to show that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true. They try but they fail to accomplish their objective.

Whatever they do or don't do, science doesn't cover creation as they pretend.

 

[Elijah7777]

The clear reading of Gen 1 is that is was all done in six days

Moses makes it very clear that a day is 1,000 years and Peter confirms this.

 

[daddd]

Moses makes it very clear that a day is 1,000 years and Peter confirms this.

No. To God time is not the same as to man. 'Like' 'as' etc. For us a day is a day. Jesus rose 3 days after being killed. Not three billion years later. Jesus is God. He said this
Jn 1:19 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day?

 

[Elijah7777]

Jesus rose 3 days after being killed.

Yes and those three days represents 3,000 years. Two thousand years for the Church Age and one thousand years for the kingdom age. Also the seventh day from Adam is the third day from Jesus. I believe Jesus died exactly 4,000 years from the time when Adam and Eve fell into sin. David lived 1,000 years before Jesus. In 2 Samuel 7:12–16, God promises David that his throne will be established forever.

 

[daddd]

Yes and those three days represents 3,000 years.

Whatever you think they represent inside your head doesn't really matter. What matters is that they were three actual days.

Two thousand years for the Church Age and one thousand years for the kingdom age. Also the seventh day from Adam is the third day from Jesus.

Having fun making stuff up? Even it if were true it does not affect the realty of what a day is. Not what a day is to God or what a day appears to be like inside your head.

I believe Jesus died exactly 4,000 years from the time when Adam and Eve fell into sin.

Believe all you like. No one really knows for sure the exact day. Nor do we know exactly when Adam and Eve sinned.

David lived 1,000 years before Jesus. In 2 Samuel 7:12–16, God promises David that his throne will be established forever.

So?

 

[Elijah7777]

Nor do we know exactly when Adam and Eve sinned.

Have you ever read Bishop Usshers book? He is pretty much accepted by everyone for the last 500 years. James Ussher was an Irish Anglican bishop and scholar, best known for his biblical chronology that dated the creation of the world to 4004 BC. He served as the Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland from 1625 to 1656. His work on patristic texts and biblical chronology was influential, and his date for creation was widely accepted in the Western world until the 19th century.

Maybe next you will be trying to tell me that Saint Nicholas was not a real person.

 

[Elijah7777]

Whatever you think they represent inside your head doesn't really matter.

If we have the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God, then it does matter.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

The key here is the word "Beginning". In this case we are told the beginning of "the heavens and the earth." Science tells us that we are star dust. The elements that make us up were created in the furnace of a star that lived out its life and exploded. All of that takes up the 8 billion years of day one.

You can say that God created Adam from the dust of the ground. Wonderful but where did that dust come from?

• The first day of Genesis covers about 8 billion years.
• The second day spans 4 billion years.
• The third day lasts 2 billion years, and so on.
• By the sixth day, time compresses to about 1/4 billion years

and the evening and the morning were the first day