[__ Science __ ] Old Earth vs. Young Earth

Ok , I will let you explain the description "tail like a cedar " . Can you ? Hippo ? Elephant ?

View attachment 21348
I do not have to when others have already done so.

Source: https://reasons.org/explore/publica...al-in-job-with-a-tail-like-a-cedar-a-dinosaur

Their explanation is that "The Hebrew word for “tail” in this passage, zanab, refers to the hindquarters and the tail of an animal. Note how well the rest of Job 40’s description fits the morphology, behavior, and habitat of the hippopotamus. The hippopotamus has huge hindquarters that it often uses as a weapon to attack other creatures and small boats and canoes that invade its personal space."

As I have stated x3 now, I do not know! I am still asking how do YOU reconcile the fossils of dinosaurs that are millions of years old with a 6000 year old geology record? So far...no one has given an explanation.

So...I would encourage you to not be so critical of me and instead, FOCUS on the question!

Some choices you might consider...........
1. All scientific answers are wrong. Radio isotopes, Radiocarbon 14, fossil bones, recrystallization, bacterial activity, uranium decay, are all wrong and inaccurate.
2. The fossils dug up and recovered are all fakes.
3. There is actually long periods of time between verses in Genesis 1. Million may be even billions.
4. Adam and Eve lived along side those dinosaurs.
5. Noah placed all 600 on the Ark and the flood destroyed all the others.
6. There was another Earth before Genesis 1 and Genesis 1 is a recreation.

Now notice.........I DID NOT SAY those things happened! I am only repeating what the college students in town ask us when they attend.
 
The options to solve the apparent conflict are as follows:
1. the Bible is wrong,
2. the Bible is being interpreted incorrectly, or the
3. scientific data is being interpreted incorrectly.
4. There was a Creation before Genesis 1:1
Or 5. Science is wrong, God was right all along

The reasons for the old ages from science are all 100 faith based. It is only a matter of who we chose to believe
 
What say YOU?
Hi Rodger

That there is truth. The earth cannot be both only about 6,000 years old and also 14 billion years old. According to the Scriptures there was a time in which God commanded the earth to exist. How long ago was that?
Now if you believe that the Young Earth position is the right one, then you "must" also accept as a fact, that Adam and Eve lived with dinosaurs and that Noah had them on the Ark even though there is NO Biblical record of either one.
That would be correct. The creatures that we know as dinosaurs walked upon the very same earth, during the very lives, of early mankind. However, the earth is a big, big ball and when there were only a few thousand or million people living on the earth, they wouldn't necessarily have had close contact with dinosaurs walking about in the area now known as North America or even most of the African continent. I've lived 70 years and never met an elephant in my walkabouts. Now, the problem you have is that God failed to mention that in His word, although He does clearly speak of there having been some dinosaur-like creatures in the account of Job. And in that account, God seems to know that Job knows the creature that He is describing.

Look, you're welcome to go with what you believe to be the truth, but do you have an example where the word 'Yom' was used to describe an age and that such age was then defined as consisting of an evening and a morning? Yes, the word yom or day, still today needs defining to know whether one is speaking of an earth day or a period of time as in the day of. God has given you just such a definer: And there was evening and there was morning the first day. Further, day, when referring to an earth day, has always been the time that it takes the earth to make a full rotation upon its axis. One thing we must all be careful of in our study of the Scriptures is that all of the qualifiers of an account must be understood and met before we can even consider that we know the truth of a matter.

So, give me one example where the Scriptures or even non-biblical sources have written about an age of time and described such age as consisting of an evening and a morning. Just one.
 
So, give me one example where the Scriptures or even non-biblical sources have written about an age of time and described such age as consisting of an evening and a morning. Just one.
Daniel 8:14 (NASB)
"He said to me, 'For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored.'"

In this prophetic vision, the phrase "2,300 evenings and mornings" is commonly understood to represent 2,300 days, with each "evening and morning" signifying a full day (as in the Jewish reckoning of a day, which begins at evening). This is the only direct instance where an extended period of time (over six years) is explicitly described using the phrase "evenings and mornings."

J.
 
Hi Rodger

That there is truth. The earth cannot be both only about 6,000 years old and also 14 billion years old. According to the Scriptures there was a time in which God commanded the earth to exist. How long ago was that?

That would be correct. The creatures that we know as dinosaurs walked upon the very same earth, during the very lives, of early mankind. However, the earth is a big, big ball and when there were only a few thousand or million people living on the earth, they wouldn't necessarily have had close contact with dinosaurs walking about in the area now known as North America or even most of the African continent. I've lived 70 years and never met an elephant in my walkabouts. Now, the problem you have is that God failed to mention that in His word, although He does clearly speak of there having been some dinosaur-like creatures in the account of Job. And in that account, God seems to know that Job knows the creature that He is describing.

Look, you're welcome to go with what you believe to be the truth, but do you have an example where the word 'Yom' was used to describe an age and that such age was then defined as consisting of an evening and a morning? Yes, the word yom or day, still today needs defining to know whether one is speaking of an earth day or a period of time as in the day of. God has given you just such a definer: And there was evening and there was morning the first day. Further, day, when referring to an earth day, has always been the time that it takes the earth to make a full rotation upon its axis. One thing we must all be careful of in our study of the Scriptures is that all of the qualifiers of an account must be understood and met before we can even consider that we know the truth of a matter.

So, give me one example where the Scriptures or even non-biblical sources have written about an age of time and described such age as consisting of an evening and a morning. Just one.

Wonderful post. Your explanation sounds good at first, but then when we consider that there has only been "one" fossil found in Isreal, the question then would be.....why only one if they lived and died along with Adam and Eve.

That fossil was called an Elasmosaurus who was a cousin to the dinosauers and was dated 85 million years ago and was a sea creature.

Then if your idea has truth in it, common sense along with all the sciences would say that there would be dinosaur bones/skeletons found along with human ones in Israe.
Now, the facts are.....and I would encourage you to "Fact Check " this.........There has been NO dinosaur bones/fossils/skeleton found in the sediments dating from 6000 years ago in Israel.

Sure.......Genesis 2:4
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens."

Psalm 90:4:
“For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by.”

So then.....the question remains as asked.
 
Or 5. Science is wrong, God was right all along

The reasons for the old ages from science are all 100 faith based. It is only a matter of who we chose to believe
Well the problem with that is that we as people/humans accept Science when we have an operation to remove a tumor.

We have faith and accept science when we need a heart stint or brain surgery.

We have faith in airplanes when we travel but when it comes to believing the sciences that made those things possible, we say ---they must be wrong and I choose to ignore them!

Doesn't that bother you?
 
I see .

I believe you .

I will let Trey Smith show you in a video .

Nope. I watched it, but the "Fact Check.Com" verifies that there has never been a dinosaur skeleton/fossil found in the area where Adam and Eve lived. NONE!
 
Or 5. Science is wrong, God was right all along

The reasons for the old ages from science are all 100 faith based. It is only a matter of who we chose to believe

Yes, or "science" falsely so-called. I took upper level courses in paleontology during college, and the entire theory of evolution is make believe when you get down to the actual fossil record. As for old earth theory, that's just as fraudulent, and adopts conformity to the theory rather than rejecting it. It didn't take God untold millions of years to create the plants and trees, and then more untold millions of years to create the animals, and then more untold millions of year to create man. That's placing far greater faith in "science" than in scripture.
 
Hi Rodger

That there is truth. The earth cannot be both only about 6,000 years old and also 14 billion years old. According to the Scriptures there was a time in which God commanded the earth to exist. How long ago was that?

That would be correct. The creatures that we know as dinosaurs walked upon the very same earth, during the very lives, of early mankind. However, the earth is a big, big ball and when there were only a few thousand or million people living on the earth, they wouldn't necessarily have had close contact with dinosaurs walking about in the area now known as North America or even most of the African continent. I've lived 70 years and never met an elephant in my walkabouts. Now, the problem you have is that God failed to mention that in His word, although He does clearly speak of there having been some dinosaur-like creatures in the account of Job. And in that account, God seems to know that Job knows the creature that He is describing.

Look, you're welcome to go with what you believe to be the truth, but do you have an example where the word 'Yom' was used to describe an age and that such age was then defined as consisting of an evening and a morning? Yes, the word yom or day, still today needs defining to know whether one is speaking of an earth day or a period of time as in the day of. God has given you just such a definer: And there was evening and there was morning the first day. Further, day, when referring to an earth day, has always been the time that it takes the earth to make a full rotation upon its axis. One thing we must all be careful of in our study of the Scriptures is that all of the qualifiers of an account must be understood and met before we can even consider that we know the truth of a matter.

So, give me one example where the Scriptures or even non-biblical sources have written about an age of time and described such age as consisting of an evening and a morning. Just one.
Do not get the idea that I am a skeptic in any way. I believe totally is exactly what the Bible says about Creation. So put that idea away.

What I have said, is that the Bible offers zero evidence to support the idea that Dinosaurs lived with Adam and Eve. This theory is quite literally made out of thin air.

I am simply saying that due to the “young earth doctrine,” young earth Bible teachers are forced to place all of Creation and world history into a 6,000-year window which does not fit.
Them when anyone questions that idea they are called heretics or false teachers or you do not have enough faith.

I completely understand the need and the concept of Dinosaurs roaming the earth with Adam and Eve 6000 years ago, it is overwhelming but what is totally amazing to me is all of that is despite no Biblical evidence for such a belief whatsoever.

Focus people! Is there another answer or is this one of those question we will never know till we get to heaven.
 
Nope. I watched it, but the "Fact Check.Com" verifies that there has never been a dinosaur skeleton/fossil found in the area where Adam and Eve lived. NONE!
Link ? I can't find a "Fact Check.Com" :shrug .
 
Yes, or "science" falsely so-called. I took upper level courses in paleontology during college, and the entire theory of evolution is make believe when you get down to the actual fossil record. As for old earth theory, that's just as fraudulent, and adopts conformity to the theory rather than rejecting it. It didn't take God untold millions of years to create the plants and trees, and then more untold millions of years to create the animals, and then more untold millions of year to create man. That's placing far greater faith in "science" than in scripture.
The issue is that the Bible doesn't say either way, whether the earth is young or old. To say the Bible teaches a young earth is to read that idea into the text. As the OP and I have explained, there are several different ways to look at the text from an old earth point of view, even with some variation in some of those ways, and remain biblical.

Either "the heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork" (Psa. 19:1, ESV), or they don't. Either God's "invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made" (Rom. 1:20, ESV), or they aren't. Passages such as these show that we can know about God and about his creation by studying them.

As such, there are many Christian scientists, in various disciplines, who believe the evidence points to an old earth. But, this isn't a primary, salvific issue.
 
Do not get the idea that I am a skeptic in any way. I believe totally is exactly what the Bible says about Creation. So put that idea away.

What I have said, is that the Bible offers zero evidence to support the idea that Dinosaurs lived with Adam and Eve. This theory is quite literally made out of thin air.

I am simply saying that due to the “young earth doctrine,” young earth Bible teachers are forced to place all of Creation and world history into a 6,000-year window which does not fit.
Them when anyone questions that idea they are called heretics or false teachers or you do not have enough faith.

I completely understand the need and the concept of Dinosaurs roaming the earth with Adam and Eve 6000 years ago, it is overwhelming but what is totally amazing to me is all of that is despite no Biblical evidence for such a belief whatsoever.

Focus people! Is there another answer or is this one of those question we will never know till we get to heaven.
Just a thought. If the Scriptures are silent on whether the earth is young or old, does that make it a salvation issue?


Recently, someone asked me if I knew how many questions God asked Job. I wasn’t sure, and couldn’t find a definitive answer…so I did a little homework. We find the questions that God asked Job in the book of Job, chapters 38 through 42. I counted 66 question marks, so there are at least 66 questions. Some questions, however, have more than one question in them. For example, in verse 24 we find these two questions:

Where is the way that the light is divided,
Or the east wind scattered on the earth?
Here are the questions that God asked Job, taken from Job chapters 38-42. I do not offer them to you to answer the question, “How many?”, but as food for thought. As you read, consider the implications of who God is, and how vast is the difference between the Creator and mankind, His greatest creation.

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,

Who is this that darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?

Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?

On what were its bases sunk?

Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
When I made a cloud its garment
And thick darkness its swaddling band,
And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,
And I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther;
And here shall your proud waves stop’?

Have you ever in your life commanded the morning,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?

Have you entered into the springs of the sea
Or walked in the recesses of the deep?

Have the gates of death been revealed to you,
Or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?

Have you understood the expanse of the earth?

Tell Me, if you know all this.
Where is the way to the dwelling of light?

And darkness, where is its place,
That you may take it to its territory
And that you may discern the paths to its home?

Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,
Or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,
Which I have reserved for the time of distress,
For the day of war and battle?

Where is the way that the light is divided,
Or the east wind scattered on the earth?

Who has cleft a channel for the flood,
Or a way for the thunderbolt,
To bring rain on a land without people,
On a desert without a man in it,
To satisfy the waste and desolate land
And to make the seeds of grass to sprout?

Has the rain a father?

Or who has begotten the drops of dew?

From whose womb has come the ice?

And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth?

Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades,
Or loose the cords of Orion?

Can you lead forth a constellation in its season,
And guide the Bear with her satellites?

Do you know the ordinances of the heavens,
Or fix their rule over the earth?

Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
So that an abundance of water will cover you?

Can you send forth lightnings that they may go
And say to you, ‘Here we are’?

Who has put wisdom in the innermost being
Or given understanding to the mind?

Who can count the clouds by wisdom,
Or tip the water jars of the heavens,
When the dust hardens into a mass
And the clods stick together?

Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
When they crouch in their dens
And lie in wait in their lair?

Who prepares for the raven its nourishment
When its young cry to God
And wander about without food?

Do you know the time the mountain goats give birth?

Do you observe the calving of the deer?

Can you count the months they fulfill,
Or do you know the time they give birth?

Who sent out the wild donkey free?

And who loosed the bonds of the swift donkey,
To whom I gave the wilderness for a home
And the salt land for his dwelling place?

Will the wild ox consent to serve you,
Or will he spend the night at your manger?

Can you bind the wild ox in a furrow with ropes,
Or will he harrow the valleys after you?

Will you trust him because his strength is great
And leave your labor to him?

Will you have faith in him that he will return your grain
And gather it from your threshing floor?

Do you give the horse his might?

Do you clothe his neck with a mane?

Do you make him leap like the locust?

Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars,
Stretching his wings toward the south?

Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up
And makes his nest on high?

Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
Let him who reproves God answer it.”

Now gird up your loins like a man;
I will ask you, and you instruct Me.
Will you really annul My judgment?

Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?

Or do you have an arm like God,
And can you thunder with a voice like His?

The following questions are related to “behemoth.” The identity of behemoth is unknown, but the text clearly suggests a large beast. Some commentators suggest that this is an elephant, a hippopotamus, or possibly a dinosaur.

Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you…
Can anyone capture him when he is on watch,
With barbs can anyone pierce his nose?

The following questions are related to “leviathan.” The identity of leviathan is unknown. Some commentators suggest that this may be a crocodile, a whale, a shark, a dragon, or a dinosaur.

Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?

Or press down his tongue with a cord?

Can you put a rope in his nose
Or pierce his jaw with a hook?


J.
 
Just a thought. If the Scriptures are silent on whether the earth is young or old, does that make it a salvation issue?


Recently, someone asked me if I knew how many questions God asked Job. I wasn’t sure, and couldn’t find a definitive answer…so I did a little homework. We find the questions that God asked Job in the book of Job, chapters 38 through 42. I counted 66 question marks, so there are at least 66 questions. Some questions, however, have more than one question in them. For example, in verse 24 we find these two questions:

Where is the way that the light is divided,
Or the east wind scattered on the earth?
Here are the questions that God asked Job, taken from Job chapters 38-42. I do not offer them to you to answer the question, “How many?”, but as food for thought. As you read, consider the implications of who God is, and how vast is the difference between the Creator and mankind, His greatest creation.

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,

Who is this that darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?

Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?

On what were its bases sunk?

Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
When I made a cloud its garment
And thick darkness its swaddling band,
And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,
And I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther;
And here shall your proud waves stop’?

Have you ever in your life commanded the morning,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?

Have you entered into the springs of the sea
Or walked in the recesses of the deep?

Have the gates of death been revealed to you,
Or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?

Have you understood the expanse of the earth?

Tell Me, if you know all this.
Where is the way to the dwelling of light?

And darkness, where is its place,
That you may take it to its territory
And that you may discern the paths to its home?

Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,
Or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,
Which I have reserved for the time of distress,
For the day of war and battle?

Where is the way that the light is divided,
Or the east wind scattered on the earth?

Who has cleft a channel for the flood,
Or a way for the thunderbolt,
To bring rain on a land without people,
On a desert without a man in it,
To satisfy the waste and desolate land
And to make the seeds of grass to sprout?

Has the rain a father?

Or who has begotten the drops of dew?

From whose womb has come the ice?

And the frost of heaven, who has given it birth?

Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades,
Or loose the cords of Orion?

Can you lead forth a constellation in its season,
And guide the Bear with her satellites?

Do you know the ordinances of the heavens,
Or fix their rule over the earth?

Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
So that an abundance of water will cover you?

Can you send forth lightnings that they may go
And say to you, ‘Here we are’?

Who has put wisdom in the innermost being
Or given understanding to the mind?

Who can count the clouds by wisdom,
Or tip the water jars of the heavens,
When the dust hardens into a mass
And the clods stick together?

Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
When they crouch in their dens
And lie in wait in their lair?

Who prepares for the raven its nourishment
When its young cry to God
And wander about without food?

Do you know the time the mountain goats give birth?

Do you observe the calving of the deer?

Can you count the months they fulfill,
Or do you know the time they give birth?

Who sent out the wild donkey free?

And who loosed the bonds of the swift donkey,
To whom I gave the wilderness for a home
And the salt land for his dwelling place?

Will the wild ox consent to serve you,
Or will he spend the night at your manger?

Can you bind the wild ox in a furrow with ropes,
Or will he harrow the valleys after you?

Will you trust him because his strength is great
And leave your labor to him?

Will you have faith in him that he will return your grain
And gather it from your threshing floor?

Do you give the horse his might?

Do you clothe his neck with a mane?

Do you make him leap like the locust?

Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars,
Stretching his wings toward the south?

Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up
And makes his nest on high?

Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
Let him who reproves God answer it.”

Now gird up your loins like a man;
I will ask you, and you instruct Me.
Will you really annul My judgment?

Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?

Or do you have an arm like God,
And can you thunder with a voice like His?

The following questions are related to “behemoth.” The identity of behemoth is unknown, but the text clearly suggests a large beast. Some commentators suggest that this is an elephant, a hippopotamus, or possibly a dinosaur.

Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you…
Can anyone capture him when he is on watch,
With barbs can anyone pierce his nose?

The following questions are related to “leviathan.” The identity of leviathan is unknown. Some commentators suggest that this may be a crocodile, a whale, a shark, a dragon, or a dinosaur.

Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?

Or press down his tongue with a cord?

Can you put a rope in his nose
Or pierce his jaw with a hook?


J.
Way tooooo long of a responce for me to read and assimilate.

I will however respond to the 1st thing you asked and that is this is NOT an essential to salvation.
 
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