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Old Lie of the Serpent !

The main impetus of the New Age movement is a very ancient lie. Satan, man's ever present nemesis, is still in the business of selling the same old lie he sold to Mother Eve at the very beginning of time. In Genesis 3:5, it is recorded that Satan said, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." The deification of self, regardless of whatever particular form it takes, will always be the downfall of man. Instead of fulfilling its whispered promises of liberation and exaltation, the promises of the personal liberation and exaltation that are imagined to come upon discovering the "God-consciousness" within have been, and will continue to be, the mechanisms Satan uses to degrade and imprison man.

Make no mistake about it, Western society is faced with a new order, a new world view, a New Age. This New Age movement is nothing other than Humanism doctored up in spiritual terms, and is but another attempt by Satan to destroy the work of Christ. The Old-New Age concept that man can achieve Godhood "is an integral part of the mystical world view that is making a coordinated thrust into every aspect of our cultural consciousness... It is not a fad, it will not go away, and it is fundamentally hostile to Biblical Christianity."
As Marilyn Ferguson, herself an admitted "co-conspirator" and chronicler of the New Age movement, has so chillingly pointed out in her magnum opus, The Aquarian Conspiracy:

"Western society is at a pivotal point ... Cultural transformation announces itself in sputtering fits and starts, sparked here and there by minor incidents, warmed by new ideas that may smoulder for decades. In many different places, at different times, the kindling is laid for the real conflagrationâ€â€the one that will consume the old landmarks and alter the landscape forever."


Kundalini is a form of yoga in which is called "serpent power," or occult powers residing at the base of the spine, are summoned to the brain through certain yoga techniques. This supposedly endows the practitioner with superhuman psychic and spiritual powers which lead to samadhi or enlightenment. Figuratively speaking, the footprints of the Serpent can be found literally everywhere in false religion. There are no lies that are not his lies, and there are no false paths to God that are not his inventions.

In the past, Satan's game plan seemed to be to convince the Western World that Jesus was a myth. Using scientific skepticism as a tool, doubt and scorn were heaped upon His claims to be the incarnated Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But in our generation, Satan has very cleverly changed his strategy. His attacks are no longer focused on the truthfulness of Christ's claims, but on their uniqueness. Satan is using the philosophies of Eastern religion to blunt the unique claims of Jesus Christ. It is well established that the Eastern mystics are willing to honor Jesus as the incarnation of God, the Savior, and the Truth, but only as one of many such incarnations (avatars), one of many such saviors, and one of many such truths. Although an avatar, in Hindu usage, is any incarnation of the god Vishnu, in general usage, it can refer to the descent of any god into the world in human form, usually to help mankind in a time of crisis. In the Bhagavad- Gita, Lord Krishna says:

In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sins of the sinner,
To establish righteousness.
There are many inconsistencies in Eastern religion. Therefore, although Krishna seems to be saying that he offers salvation from sins, man's problem, according to Hinduism, is really not sin; instead, man's problem is his ignorance of his own divinity. In fact, the avatar's purpose is to teach and guide spiritual seekers toward enlightenment. In the Aquarian Gospel, it is stated this way:

There are no supernatural acts of God to lift a man from carnal life to spirit blessedness: he grows as grows the plant, and in due time is perfected.
When He was on this earth, Jesus warned that there would be many false Christs. And although in these passages He was referring specifically to the destruction of Jerusalem, I cannot help but see such warnings as being appropriate for today. Furthermore, I am reminded of what the apostle Paul said in his first letter to Timothy:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils: speaking lies in hypocrisy: having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
Previously in this chapter, I quoted Manly P. Hall, a leading occult authority, as saying: "By means of the secret processes of ceremonial magic it is possible to contact.., invisible creatures and gain their support in some human undertaking." I said that we would eventually make the connection between the alleged demon facilitators of occult magic and the so-called ascended masters or spirit (inner) guides of Eastern mysticism. Critical to understanding this connection is what has come to be called "altered states of consciousness."

Sir John Eccles, winner of a Nobel Prize for his research on the brain, has described the brain as "a machine that a 'ghost' can operate." According to this theory, in a normal state of consciousness the human mind or spirit is the "ghost" that operates the brain. This is the way God made us and this is the way He expects us to remain. But when man enters into altered states, whether through drugs, hypnosis, yoga, transcendental meditation, or any other technique, he is failing to guard his heart (mind/brain) as God has instructed him. In these altered states, man leaves himself open to Satanic influences. We know this can happen when we think improperly or sinfully, and it evidently can and does happen when one enters an altered state. God, in His Word, has always condemned those practices associated with altered states, and nowhere in His Word has He ever commanded His people to engage in them. Therefore, it is no accident that altered states are an integral part of false religion and occultism no matter where one goes in the world.

It makes no difference whether one travels to the Saut d'Eau waterfalls in Haiti to see men and women in altered states who think they are possessed by Damballah Wedo (the Serpent, the god of all spiritual wisdom) slithering on the rocks at the bottom of the falls; or to India where in altered states the people worship Visuki, Lord of the snakes, or Ananta, the holy serpent; or to Europe where a coven of witches, occult practitioners, or Satan worshippers evoke the various names of' "that old serpent, which is the Devil," the footprints of the Serpent seem to be indelibly imprinted on the landscapes of altered minds.



2 Corinthians 11:3 "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ."

2 Corinthians 11:4 "For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully"
 
God, in His Word, has always condemned those practices associated with altered states, and nowhere in His Word has He ever commanded His people to engage in them.

Really?

What about THESE verses?

Acts 10:10

He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a TRANCE.

Acts 11:5

"I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a TRANCE I SAW A VISION. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was.


Acts 22:17

"When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a TRANCE


Numbers 24:4

He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a TRANCE, but having his eyes open:

Numbers 24:16

He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a TRANCE, but having his eyes open:

Here is what the dictionary has to say about the word "trance".


trance

A hypnotic, cataleptic, or ecstatic state.

Detachment from one's physical surroundings, as in contemplation or daydreaming.

A semiconscious state, as between sleeping and waking; a daze.


Hmmmm, is it just me or does TRANCE connontate an ALTERED STATE OF MIND............????????

Furthermore.......

If you are Jesus and fasting for 40 days in the wilderness......... guess what...... you will be in a PROFOUND TRANCE OR ALTERED STATE OF MIND!

In fact you might just see that "old serpent" SATAN like JESUS DID!


There are many inconsistencies in Eastern religion.

And none in Bible-anity?

In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sins of the sinner,
To establish righteousness.

Is this not EXACTLY the whole purpose of the "Second Coming"?

It is well established that the Eastern mystics are willing to honor Jesus as the incarnation of God, the Savior, and the Truth, but only as one of many such incarnations (avatars), one of many such saviors, and one of many such truths.

Please discredit Mechelzedek from the OT as not being EQUAL to Christ in terms of priestly power!

The Old-New Age concept that man can achieve Godhood "is an integral part of the mystical world view that is making a coordinated thrust into every aspect of our cultural consciousness... It is not a fad, it will not go away, and it is fundamentally hostile to Biblical Christianity."

Really??????

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man IN OUR IMAGE, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in THE IMAGE OF GOD he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in THE IMAGE OF GOD has God made man.



Is not the final goal of every Christian to be given EQUAL BLESSINGS TO THAT OF CHRIST JESUS. TO BECOME FULLY "SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD?" How does this differ from believing in the impersonal Brahman and merging into Hod Grace? Both have the SAME GOAL in mind.

Union in the BODY OF THE DIVINE!
 
His attacks are no longer focused on the truthfulness of Christ's claims, but on their uniqueness

Do we not have a right to challenege the uniqueness of Christ's words? Seeing as not a single one of Christ's moral teachings were ever exclusive to him alone? The moral message that Jesus taught either predates him, or can be seen in other religions that were never influenced by Christianity.

As for the idea of a divine son descending into the world to save mankind...this also predates Christ in the ancient pagan tales.
 
Soma-Sight said:
God, in His Word, has always condemned those practices associated with altered states, and nowhere in His Word has He ever commanded His people to engage in them.
Really?

What about THESE verses?

Acts 10:10

He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a TRANCE.

Acts 11:5

"I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a TRANCE I SAW A VISION. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was.


Acts 22:17

"When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a TRANCE


Numbers 24:4

He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a TRANCE, but having his eyes open:

Numbers 24:16

He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a TRANCE, but having his eyes open:

Here is what the dictionary has to say about the word "trance".


trance

A hypnotic, cataleptic, or ecstatic state.

Detachment from one's physical surroundings, as in contemplation or daydreaming.

A semiconscious state, as between sleeping and waking; a daze.

Both God and Evil can speak through VISIONS, It depends whom you are summoning and what technique you are using , Bible condemn the practices of summoning sprits or having union with creation. For example Sex is good as long it is with your wife



Soma-Sight said:
Furthermore.......

If you are Jesus and fasting for 40 days in the wilderness......... guess what...... you will be in a PROFOUND TRANCE OR ALTERED STATE OF MIND!

In fact you might just see that "old serpent" SATAN like JESUS DID!

Jesus didn’t see Satan in vision. Do you think Jesus was a Yogi? , If so what stopped him to advocate Yoga in bible?



Soma-Sight said:
There are many inconsistencies in Eastern religion.
And none in Bible-anity?

Nope nothing, you have inconsistencies in your mind, except some translation issues the bible is pure in it's original writing


Soma-Sight said:
In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sins of the sinner,
To establish righteousness.

Is this not EXACTLY the whole purpose of the "Second Coming"?

Nope !, It is a false peace promised by the Anti-Christ , The Hindu puranas says Krishna will come at the end of "Kali' Yuga in a white horse and kill people who are against peace

Bible mentioned Krishna is the following verse

Revelation 6:2 "I looked, and behold, a white horse (refers peace), and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.â€Â

The people against peace are born again Christians!


Soma-Sight said:
It is well established that the Eastern mystics are willing to honor Jesus as the incarnation of God, the Savior, and the Truth, but only as one of many such incarnations (avatars), one of many such saviors, and one of many such truths.

Please discredit Mechelzedek from the OT as not being EQUAL to Christ in terms of priestly power!

Jesus preexisted before his incarnation through Mary, For Example God created Adam in his image and He walked with Adam, It is very apparent that Jesus created Adam in Jesus image and He walked with him (because Father is in sprit) , That form could be Mechelzedek but I am not sure !


Soma-Sight said:
The Old-New Age concept that man can achieve Godhood "is an integral part of the mystical world view that is making a coordinated thrust into every aspect of our cultural consciousness... It is not a fad, it will not go away, and it is fundamentally hostile to Biblical Christianity."

Really??????

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man IN OUR IMAGE, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 1:27

So God created man in his own image, in THE IMAGE OF GOD he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in THE IMAGE OF GOD has God made man.


I can create an image of Soma in Mud and make it even speak and walk but the image will be still mud never become Soma!
So according to you what Serpent told Eve is True right? , If it is false then explain how it was wrong?





Soma-Sight said:
Is not the final goal of every Christian to be given EQUAL BLESSINGS TO THAT OF CHRIST JESUS. TO BECOME FULLY "SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD?" How does this differ from believing in the impersonal Brahman and merging into Hod Grace? Both have the SAME GOAL in mind.

Union in the BODY OF THE DIVINE!

There is no SONS for God, only one Son which is Christ Jesus, We are become sons by adoption not begotten!

Jesus is not a man; He didn't earn quality of God from man through obedience. He is always God and became a man to save you and me from sin, you are reversing the order!

Man’s problem is not consciousness but sin! New Age advocates mysticism to escape from morality
 
AHIMSA said:
His attacks are no longer focused on the truthfulness of Christ's claims, but on their uniqueness

Do we not have a right to challenege the uniqueness of Christ's words? Seeing as not a single one of Christ's moral teachings were ever exclusive to him alone? The moral message that Jesus taught either predates him, or can be seen in other religions that were never influenced by Christianity.

As for the idea of a divine son descending into the world to save mankind...this also predates Christ in the ancient pagan tales.

But no one never ever claimed that "I am the only way" and all others are false ! , He made exclusive claims, It makes more sense because Truth by definition exclusive

I wish to quote CS Lewis

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunaticâ€â€on a level with the man who says he is a poached eggâ€â€or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.†[CS Lewis, Mere Christianity, Book 2, Chapter 3, The Shocking Alternative]
 
C.S Lewis wrote that fifty years ago, or perhaps more, long before scholarhsip began to reveal the historical Jesus. Fifty years ago, Lewis may have been right. But we know much more about Jesus now then we did then. His argument is flawed, because we know that everything presented in the gospels are not neccessarily the words of Jesus, simply because they are attributed to him. In my opinion, and the opinion of many qualified scholars, Jesus never made the claim that he was God. We can accept him as a moral teacher, but not God, because he himself never presented people with that option.
 
AHIMSA said:
C.S Lewis wrote that fifty years ago, or perhaps more, long before scholarhsip began to reveal the historical Jesus. Fifty years ago, Lewis may have been right. But we know much more about Jesus now then we did then. His argument is flawed, because we know that everything presented in the gospels are not neccessarily the words of Jesus, simply because they are attributed to him. In my opinion, and the opinion of many qualified scholars, Jesus never made the claim that he was God. We can accept him as a moral teacher, but not God, because he himself never presented people with that option.
How much do you know about Jesus creating the heavens and the earth and all that is contained therein? That predates any and all of your pagan religions, don't it?
 
AHIMSA said:
His attacks are no longer focused on the truthfulness of Christ's claims, but on their uniqueness

Do we not have a right to challenege the uniqueness of Christ's words? Seeing as not a single one of Christ's moral teachings were ever exclusive to him alone? The moral message that Jesus taught either predates him, or can be seen in other religions that were never influenced by Christianity.

As for the idea of a divine son descending into the world to save mankind...this also predates Christ in the ancient pagan tales.

"Seeing as not a single one of Christ's moral teachings were ever exclusive to him alone? "

How about; "Eternal life is this, that you know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent
." And;

"I tell you the truth, unless a man is born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." And;

"I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." And;

"And I will ask the Father and he will send you another counselor, the Spirit of truth."

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. I suggest you become more familiar with Christ's words so you won't make another ignorant statement like that one. :)
 
Acts 10:10

He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a TRANCE.
Soma, I often fall into a similiar state when I am very hungry. I am borderline hypoglycemic. 8-)

All kidding aside, did you read those verses in their context? They fell into a meditative state while praying. Not by doing drugs, chanting or doing any of that yoga stuff, etc.

You have gone full circle. I liked it better when you were beating up up with the SDA doctrines. At least we could debate from a Biblical point. :-?
 
We have the true words of Christ in the bible.

Perverts and other degenerates must discredit the scriptures to promote their vile agenda.

Psalms 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
 
Karma2Grace said:
The main impetus of the New Age movement is a very ancient lie. Satan, man's ever present nemesis, is still in the business of selling the same old lie he sold to Mother Eve at the very beginning of time. In Genesis 3:5, it is recorded that Satan said, "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." The deification of self, regardless of whatever particular form it takes, will always be the downfall of man. Instead of fulfilling its whispered promises of liberation and exaltation, the promises of the personal liberation and exaltation that are imagined to come upon discovering the "God-consciousness" within have been, and will continue to be, the mechanisms Satan uses to degrade and imprison man.

Make no mistake about it, Western society is faced with a new order, a new world view, a New Age. This New Age movement is nothing other than Humanism doctored up in spiritual terms, and is but another attempt by Satan to destroy the work of Christ. The Old-New Age concept that man can achieve Godhood "is an integral part of the mystical world view that is making a coordinated thrust into every aspect of our cultural consciousness... It is not a fad, it will not go away, and it is fundamentally hostile to Biblical Christianity."
As Marilyn Ferguson, herself an admitted "co-conspirator" and chronicler of the New Age movement, has so chillingly pointed out in her magnum opus, The Aquarian Conspiracy:

"Western society is at a pivotal point ... Cultural transformation announces itself in sputtering fits and starts, sparked here and there by minor incidents, warmed by new ideas that may smoulder for decades. In many different places, at different times, the kindling is laid for the real conflagrationâ€â€the one that will consume the old landmarks and alter the landscape forever."


Kundalini is a form of yoga in which is called "serpent power," or occult powers residing at the base of the spine, are summoned to the brain through certain yoga techniques. This supposedly endows the practitioner with superhuman psychic and spiritual powers which lead to samadhi or enlightenment. Figuratively speaking, the footprints of the Serpent can be found literally everywhere in false religion. There are no lies that are not his lies, and there are no false paths to God that are not his inventions.

In the past, Satan's game plan seemed to be to convince the Western World that Jesus was a myth. Using scientific skepticism as a tool, doubt and scorn were heaped upon His claims to be the incarnated Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But in our generation, Satan has very cleverly changed his strategy. His attacks are no longer focused on the truthfulness of Christ's claims, but on their uniqueness. Satan is using the philosophies of Eastern religion to blunt the unique claims of Jesus Christ. It is well established that the Eastern mystics are willing to honor Jesus as the incarnation of God, the Savior, and the Truth, but only as one of many such incarnations (avatars), one of many such saviors, and one of many such truths. Although an avatar, in Hindu usage, is any incarnation of the god Vishnu, in general usage, it can refer to the descent of any god into the world in human form, usually to help mankind in a time of crisis. In the Bhagavad- Gita, Lord Krishna says:

In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sins of the sinner,
To establish righteousness.
There are many inconsistencies in Eastern religion. Therefore, although Krishna seems to be saying that he offers salvation from sins, man's problem, according to Hinduism, is really not sin; instead, man's problem is his ignorance of his own divinity. In fact, the avatar's purpose is to teach and guide spiritual seekers toward enlightenment. In the Aquarian Gospel, it is stated this way:

There are no supernatural acts of God to lift a man from carnal life to spirit blessedness: he grows as grows the plant, and in due time is perfected.
When He was on this earth, Jesus warned that there would be many false Christs. And although in these passages He was referring specifically to the destruction of Jerusalem, I cannot help but see such warnings as being appropriate for today. Furthermore, I am reminded of what the apostle Paul said in his first letter to Timothy:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils: speaking lies in hypocrisy: having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
Previously in this chapter, I quoted Manly P. Hall, a leading occult authority, as saying: "By means of the secret processes of ceremonial magic it is possible to contact.., invisible creatures and gain their support in some human undertaking." I said that we would eventually make the connection between the alleged demon facilitators of occult magic and the so-called ascended masters or spirit (inner) guides of Eastern mysticism. Critical to understanding this connection is what has come to be called "altered states of consciousness."

Sir John Eccles, winner of a Nobel Prize for his research on the brain, has described the brain as "a machine that a 'ghost' can operate." According to this theory, in a normal state of consciousness the human mind or spirit is the "ghost" that operates the brain. This is the way God made us and this is the way He expects us to remain. But when man enters into altered states, whether through drugs, hypnosis, yoga, transcendental meditation, or any other technique, he is failing to guard his heart (mind/brain) as God has instructed him. In these altered states, man leaves himself open to Satanic influences. We know this can happen when we think improperly or sinfully, and it evidently can and does happen when one enters an altered state. God, in His Word, has always condemned those practices associated with altered states, and nowhere in His Word has He ever commanded His people to engage in them. Therefore, it is no accident that altered states are an integral part of false religion and occultism no matter where one goes in the world.

It makes no difference whether one travels to the Saut d'Eau waterfalls in Haiti to see men and women in altered states who think they are possessed by Damballah Wedo (the Serpent, the god of all spiritual wisdom) slithering on the rocks at the bottom of the falls; or to India where in altered states the people worship Visuki, Lord of the snakes, or Ananta, the holy serpent; or to Europe where a coven of witches, occult practitioners, or Satan worshippers evoke the various names of' "that old serpent, which is the Devil," the footprints of the Serpent seem to be indelibly imprinted on the landscapes of altered minds.


Some of it (at least) comes from-

http://allanturner.com/sample.html


Karma2Grace, please stop the plagiarism.
 
Heidi said:
"Seeing as not a single one of Christ's moral teachings were ever exclusive to him alone?"



How about; "Eternal life is this, that you know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent
." And;

"I tell you the truth, unless a man is born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." And;

"I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." And;

"And I will ask the Father and he will send you another counselor, the Spirit of truth."

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. I suggest you become more familiar with Christ's words so you won't make another ignorant statement like that one. :)

What??

Those examples are not "moral teachings" as most people would have understood it, or at least not in the sense that AHIMSA was obviously talking about.
 
AHIMSA said:
C.S Lewis wrote that fifty years ago, or perhaps more, long before scholarhsip began to reveal the historical Jesus. Fifty years ago, Lewis may have been right. But we know much more about Jesus now then we did then. His argument is flawed, because we know that everything presented in the gospels are not neccessarily the words of Jesus, simply because they are attributed to him. In my opinion, and the opinion of many qualified scholars, Jesus never made the claim that he was God. We can accept him as a moral teacher, but not God, because he himself never presented people with that option.
Actually, it is your argument that is flawed. We don't know any more of Jesus now than we did 100 years ago, or 1500 years ago for that matter. This "scholarship" regarding the "historical Jesus" has been around for more than 100 years and the finds at Nag Hammadi actually did very little to add to the knowledge of the origins of Christianity. There simply is no reason to not believe that the gospels accurately present the words of Christ.

I would also debate your claim that "many qualified scholars" believe that "Jesus never made the claim that he was God". First, the use of "many" is very misleading. Second, many more qualified scholars do believe that Jesus claimed to be God, or equal to God.
 
AHIMSA said:
C.S Lewis wrote that fifty years ago, or perhaps more, long before scholarhsip began to reveal the historical Jesus. Fifty years ago, Lewis may have been right. But we know much more about Jesus now then we did then. His argument is flawed, because we know that everything presented in the gospels are not neccessarily the words of Jesus, simply because they are attributed to him. In my opinion, and the opinion of many qualified scholars, Jesus never made the claim that he was God. We can accept him as a moral teacher, but not God, because he himself never presented people with that option.


you are totally incorrect,history is lost over time,not gained,and if it is the opinon of many qualifyied scholars, then let them speak for them selves,and jesus,DID say he was God,or atleast part of the trinity.


as for YOU Soma-sight,you HIPOCRITE! you and your many ideas that are those of fools,wich you attempt to support by pulling text out of context,you disgust me.
 
I wish to quote CS Lewis

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunaticâ€â€on a level with the man who says he is a poached eggâ€â€or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.†[CS Lewis, Mere Christianity, Book 2, Chapter 3, The Shocking Alternative]



The argument is flawed, because it assumes that a non-Christian should accept everything the Bible says as reliable. (And how many non-Christians actually do this?)
 
‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’

C.S. Lewis may have had a point if people really did say, "I don’t accept His claim to be God". What such people probably actually say, is that they don't think he did claim to be God.
 
you are totally incorrect,history is lost over time,not gained

Actually, that mentality is a common fallacy. As time progresses, the vision of history tends to become more acute. We can better see the relation of cause and effect, new sources that were not available at the time arise ect.

For example, the finding of the gnostic texts and the dead sea scrolls revealled to us the state of the early Christian world, it was not until after the forties that these were found. The entire early years of Christianity were brought under a new light.

Or, for example, we once believed that human beings originated in Asia, when we now know they originated in Africa

Some people believed that the account of the trojan war was historical, we now know it to be myth

Do we lose history through time? Yes. But the passage of time can also give us new insights into events, through less biased lenses, can allow for new findings that broaden the historical picture.
 
DivineNames said:
‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’

C.S. Lewis may have had a point if people really did say, "I don’t accept His claim to be God". What such people probably actually say, is that they don't think he did claim to be God.

In other words CS Lewis was a fool and didn't understand the bible as you does right?

How about the verses in bible that Jesus claimed exclusivity?
 
AHIMSA said:
you are totally incorrect,history is lost over time,not gained

Actually, that mentality is a common fallacy. As time progresses, the vision of history tends to become more acute. We can better see the relation of cause and effect, new sources that were not available at the time arise ect.

For example, the finding of the gnostic texts and the dead sea scrolls revealled to us the state of the early Christian world, it was not until after the forties that these were found. The entire early years of Christianity were brought under a new light.

Or, for example, we once believed that human beings originated in Asia, when we now know they originated in Africa

Some people believed that the account of the trojan war was historical, we now know it to be myth

Do we lose history through time? Yes. But the passage of time can also give us new insights into events, through less biased lenses, can allow for new findings that broaden the historical picture.


You made a total assumption that the quote of CS Lewis is based on historical evidence but it is not, none of the discoveries disputed the books in NT rather it proved the authenticity of Gospels.

Gnostic Gospels (?) written very latter in the stage to discredit the original Gospel accounts, It is no different than a New Ager attempt to include Jesus as one of the 330 million avatars , I have seem some stupid attempts to compare Krishna with Jesus these are all originated after the abomination of eastern thoughts entered into the western mind . Even I can write an article and say Gandhi is a violent person and have third rated ‘so called’ evidences
 
Karma2Grace said:
In other words CS Lewis was a fool and didn't understand the bible as you does right?


The issue is not directly related to "understanding the Bible".
 
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