Bible Study "Once Saved, Always Saved"?

[Jay T]

If you'll remember the story of Adam and Eve.....did you ever notice that attitude of those words, that were spoken to them ? "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:40).
The attitude was....you'll not lose your immortal life....you are safe, you'll lose nothing.
In other words: "Once Saved, Always Saved"

Satan uses the very same meaning, but uses different wording.

Let me give you some Bible examples of people who lost....their salvation:

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven".
BUT....a short time later....
John 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (NO MORE !)
6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? "
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Ever heard of the Prophet Balaam ?

He was a prophet unto God Himself, yet he allowed money to control him to the point of his being separated, from God forever !
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And, there was King David...who, as you study the 51st Chapter of Psalms...you'll discover he was in fear, of losing his salvation also !
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The Apostle Paul himself had reservation......1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway"
(Look up what 'castaway' means, in Greek)
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Luke 8:12 "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which [for a while believe], and in time of temptation fall away".
(For a while believed, then fell away ? )
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1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils"
(depart...from the faith ? )
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There is about 2 dozen more, Bible verses, on the subject......want me to go on ?

 

[Khristeeanos]

The Jewish Covenant was clearly conditional.

Deuteronomy 28:15, 20
However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all of His commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you...The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking the LORD.

Deuteronomy 30:11-20 17 & 18
See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, decrees, and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to posses. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed.

The most clear passage that I have found concerning OSAS is here:

Ezekiel 18:20-25
The soul that sins is the one who will die...But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live, he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. Do I take pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sins and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not just." Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

 

[serapha]

Re: "Once Saved, Always Saved" (Satan's first Lie)

[*************************************************************
There is about 2 dozen more, Bible verses, on the subject......want me to go on ?

Hi there!


:smt039


Most certainly...


post all of them at one time, then we can discuss them one at a time, in the context that they were written.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Re: "Once Saved, Always Saved" (Satan's first Lie)

If you'll remember the story of Adam and Eve.....did you ever notice that attitude of those words, that were spoken to them ? "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:40).
The attitude was....you'll not lose your immortal life....you are safe, you'll lose nothing.
In other words: "Once Saved, Always Saved"

Satan uses the very same meaning, but uses different wording.

Hello Jay T

:smt039


Where do you get that translation? I just read about 10 commentaries and searches the Talmud, and I didn't find that passage to say what you claim it says.

"You shall not surely die",

The text is "you shall not dying die" ... which is a relating to the physical death, a verbal idea it becomes an adverb... the "die" is imperfect implying in the future, so, the text is "you shall not dying die"...


not once saved always saved as in the salvation of the soul, but in the physical body as is evidences by satan telling Eve that "ye shall be as gods" as in a manifestation, not in spirit as the total essence of God.


~serapha~

 

[Blazin Bones]

Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

 

[notaxbill]

Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

I hope you don't lock this thread I see no ego here just people
wanting to clear up how they believe I am really reading and looking
at both sides . :o

 

[evanman]

I am always mindful of Christ's warning to some that He would remove their names out of the Book of Life.

 

[notaxbill]

Satan had lost the physical battle with God before the garden of eden and knew
that was futile so he went after his creation God also knew this and placed a
plan of redemption in place (from the foundations of the earth).
Maybe people read wrong what satan said. maybe when he stated you shall not surely die
he was talking about in the long run that is true as I belive Adam and eve shall
be in the first resurrection. His deception was he lead them to belive physical.
He tells half truths. people in the flesh still face these two loses. The flesh
permeant all flesh will be done away because of sin. Even the word soul means
a person who is alive not spirit. So when the flesh is destroyed so is the soul.
(much study to understand this). Now if a person confesses the lord jesus with
their mouth and believes in their hearts that God raised him from the dead are they
not saved. What is death and what is punishment. two separate things in most cases.
He punishes us to help us showing us we belong to him. I know he has made me go stand in the corner many a time and I really didn't like being there. There is another place Christ
stated agree with your Adversary while in the way least you be cast into prison
and you shall not come out till the full price has been payed. Then in another place
he states that in a certain time every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess.
So then what ,they repent and then are cast into dantes inferno being punished day
and night for ever.I have my own opinion on Gods wonderful mercy for people who live
on this earth and are not called at this time no one can come lest they be called.
Our wonderful Lord and savior is all in all in complete control calling whom
he will in their time It is not he who wills or he who runs but the Father who call's
It is hard to give all power over to God Like proverbs says man makes his plans
God directs his steps. Some pots are made to put treasures in others to put
garbage in. Can the saw tell the man who uses it how to use it of course not.
But GOd does have a plan to save his own. Even Christ calls some the seed of satan.
There is much to be studied to understand I believe in a total control GOd.
In hope for all
notaxbill

 

[archer]

After the last thread was closed I had the opportunity to discuss OSAS with a young pastor. I was reminded of this when I read what the first poster said when he mentioned that OSAS was a lie by satan. This pastor was telling me that there are days he doesnt sin. He believes that you can loose your salvation. But he believes that he is pure and that is why he is not in fear of loosing his salvation. I asked him if he ever breaks any of the 10 commandments. He response was no. Who among us is pure?
Now I reflect on what I have read in the bible and I have tried to think of any that were pure. What I come to realize is that all were sinners. Lets look at some. David and his adultry, Paul and his words in Romans chapter 6 & 7. Peter who denied Christ 3 times. Moses, Samson. The list goes on and on. God had to make Abraham Righteous. What I see is a pattern of failures.
Adam and eve couldnt even stay pure even though they were in the garden of eden. Israel couldnt stay in the prescense of god because of there sin.
So where does this leave us? I say it leaves us with a merciful God who knows we are all gonna sin.
Now if we who are Christians that have accepted the gift us salvation are called the bride of Christ. Are we not entered into a marriage? And what are Christ words on marriage? So do we enter into a divorce every time we sin and are not in the will of God?
Paul in Romans chapter 7 seems to be struggling with sin in his life. Is he not saved when he wrote this? Or is he a human that is saved struggling with the same things we struggle with? He says that there is a war going on in his mind. Do we all not have the same war?
Jesus explained God's intention when He gave the law, because the Pharisees had misinterpreted it (Matthew 5-7). The new covenant we have with God depends upon our belief in His righteousness. The old covenant depended on our righteousness in keeping the law. This is the struggle Paul had before he realized that the law was spiritual.

Only the Christian has this conflict between the flesh and the spirit. The non-Christian lives in harmony with the desires of his flesh, but we Christians are trying to bring our flesh into conformity with the will of God. Now our will and desire is to serve God. So, when we sin, it's because we still have the sinful nature. Our spiritual, inward self loves God's law and wants above all to obey Him . Our flesh always seeks to gratify itself and struggles with our spirit to bring it under the control of sin. We're dragging the body of our dead man (our flesh) around with us, hoping for the day when we'll be released. With God's help through Jesus, there's a way that we don't have to continue to be defeated by the flesh.
Because in our hearts we desire to serve God, He doesn't condemn us when we fail.
God didn't intend for our bodily appetites to rule over us, but, as long as we're in these bodies, we'll have a struggle with the flesh. We must daily go before God to reckon our old nature dead and by faith to claim the victory (Galatians 5). We don't have to sin anymore. We now have the choice to yield to the flesh or to God. We've been freed from being servants of sin. Now that we're free from the bondage of sin and are under grace, it doesn't make sense to sin. Instead, we can yield ourselves to God as His instruments for righteousness.

 

[Khristeeanos]

I won't be participating in this discussion any more because.......

 

[Jay T]

Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

The implication behind the OSAS...is that no matter what sin a person committs, they will still go to heaven , having eternal life.
That is basicly what Satan told Eve: "You shall not surely die" (even if you disobey, what God said, not to do).

That is why OSAS is dangerous !
It makes light of sin, as a trivial matter.

And yet, because of a lack of Old Testament study.......
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children", (Hosea 4:6)

 

[JM]

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
10:11
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

What is the result of Jesus's offering? ....he hath prefected for ever them (who) them that are sanctified.

 

[notaxbill]

[quote="Brutus/HisCatalyst":034c4]Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

The implication behind the OSAS...is that no matter what sin a person committs, they will still go to heaven , having eternal life.
That is basicly what Satan told Eve: "You shall not surely die" (even if you disobey, what God said, not to do).

That is why OSAS is dangerous !
It makes light of sin, as a trivial matter.

THis is not what we mean we believe that God causes us to hate sin
and abides with us to quit sinning it is always with us as long as we are in the flesh nobody is perfect and osas people do not believe you may
sin all you want that is the lie we just believe we will be delivered from
sin.It is a growth Paul even said at the end of his life he was not all he
should be he also said he had fought the good fight. God spanks his kids.

And yet, because of a lack of Old Testament study.......
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children", (Hosea 4:6)[/quote:034c4]

 

[serapha]

[quote="Brutus/HisCatalyst":dec33]Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

The implication behind the OSAS...is that no matter what sin a person committs, they will still go to heaven , having eternal life.
That is basicly what Satan told Eve: "You shall not surely die" (even if you disobey, what God said, not to do).

That is why OSAS is dangerous !
It makes light of sin, as a trivial matter.

And yet, because of a lack of Old Testament study.......
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children", (Hosea 4:6)[/quote:dec33]

Hi there!

:smt039

that's really an interesting comment. I don't believe I have ever heard a minister preach a sermon on that subject, that a saved person will continue in sin.

~serapha~

 

[Adams son]

[quote="Brutus/HisCatalyst":85f0f]Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

The implication behind the OSAS...is that no matter what sin a person committs, they will still go to heaven , having eternal life.
That is basicly what Satan told Eve: "You shall not surely die" (even if you disobey, what God said, not to do).

That is why OSAS is dangerous !
It makes light of sin, as a trivial matter.

And yet, because of a lack of Old Testament study.......
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children", (Hosea 4:6)

Hi there!

:smt039

that's really an interesting comment. I don't believe I have ever heard a minister preach a sermon on that subject, that a saved person will continue in sin.

~serapha~[/quote:85f0f]

I have never heard of one that didn't.

 

[evanman]

There are those that because of OSAS think that they can live as they like because "OSAS".

It is often used by some to justify murder, abuse and wickedness in the name of Jesus, because "OSAS"!

This is the danger of OSAS.

on the other hand Arminianism carries the danger of men putting their trust in their own works, that somehow the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary was not sufficient to reconcile man to God, that there is something we must do to complete this work.

 

[archer]

There are those that because of OSAS think that they can live as they like because "OSAS".

It is often used by some to justify murder, abuse and wickedness in the name of Jesus, because "OSAS"!

This is the danger of OSAS.

Evan this is so true. Its really a shame that Satan can take and use the gift that God offered to some and use it for confusion so that living by the Law replaces the true meaning of Grace.

 

[notaxbill]

[quote="Brutus/HisCatalyst":82370]Just remember what you all are getting into. I locked the last thread because it was more about ego's than revealing more of God's truths.

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

The implication behind the OSAS...is that no matter what sin a person committs, they will still go to heaven , having eternal life.
That is basicly what Satan told Eve: "You shall not surely die" (even if you disobey, what God said, not to do).

That is why OSAS is dangerous !
It makes light of sin, as a trivial matter.

What and how many sins will I commit that would cause God to quit on me. seeing he was the one who came and got me no man seeks God without being drawn by the spirit.
What does it mean when the fullness of the Gentiles come in.
and did n't the books of acts state that they were added to the
church that which should be added? People do not by nature seek God.
You must agree with that Then once he has come and got you there is a
point he will say go away you were mine and now you are not I
give up on you. I am a new creature in christ none of my doing all him
That I loved now I hate That I did not love now I love because he
chose to make me this way. Can I sin yes will I repent I better or here
comes the spanking. I could not live in fear of losing my salvation
I could not ask anyone to come to Christ without offering them hope.
I will never believe in working for my salvation .I do believe in working
because of what was done for me without my asking.
Even after salvation none of us are perfect if we aren't then how will
we get there? Please Remember a new creature in Christ behold old things
are gone all is new Like a new born baby. He becomes our Father
and will in no wise cast us away.


And yet, because of a lack of Old Testament study.......
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children", (Hosea 4:6)[/quote:82370]

 

[notaxbill]

In hope

I do not wish to be the one to get this forum locked This my last post
Let us Agree to diagree in love. I will not battle about this for quite a long time now. I have posted all over these boards how I belive If a man
believes He can lose his salvation this is his right. To me it's like
which day should I worship What food should I eat? In some things
we have to make our own minds up.
An old Arkansas guy wishes all Gods Love and peace.

 

[SavedSinner]

I still don't think OSAS matters if you are loving God with all your heart soul and mind, but it is a good issue to discuss if it can be done peacefully.

Exactly! Keep the faith...Walk closely with Jesus. :angel: