Bible Study One Or Two Gospels In The New Testament?

[Terral]

Where Is Your "One Gospel" Presentation??

Hi Thessalonian:

Thessalonian >> So the gospel that Christ preached was not really to be preached to the whole world even though he said it was to be? (snip Matthew 26 and Mark 13 quotes).

The Gospel of the Kingdom was never accepted by Israel in Jerusalem. Did we notice that Jerusalem was leveled in 70 AD over their ‘transgression’ (Romans 11:11)?? How could that kingdom spread to the whole world if Israel did not accept it as a nation? They crucified the King; remember? The Twelve carried the Gospel of the Kingdom to gather the ‘bride’ (John 3:29), but God began gathering the ‘body of Christ’ through Paul’s Gospel, which is still in force today. Peter told them to “Repent†(Acts 3:19), but did they? No. Do we give the Holy Spirit to one another by the laying of hands today like for the ‘gospel of the kingdom (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6)? No. That Gospel message with the water baptism for forgiveness is not Paul’s Gospel that contains His shed blood for forgiveness (Ephesians 1:7). The two doctrinal outlines of the Opening Post contain directly opposing doctrinal precepts, which is the reason these two gospel messages ARE DIFFERENT. If you ever find anything errant in either of those outlines, then feel free to “quote me >>†and point out those errors using Scripture. Otherwise this side of the Debate sees no reason to change anything, because what is given above is “the truth.â€Â

Thessalonian >> Please answer a question directly for a change instead of crying about how I have not addressed your topic or have not quoted scripture (even though I did).

Quote the entire Bible if you like, but that challenges nothing about my ‘two gospel’ hypothesis in the Opening Post. The fact that two sets of doctrinal precepts even exist is evidence that my hypothesis is truth. Do we see sins forgiven by water (Mark 1:4-5, Acts 2:38) AND Christ’s shed blood (Ephesians 1:7)? Yes. My outlines place those components in Gospel #1 (water) and Gospel #2 (blood). Do we see the Spirit given in two different ways in the New Testament? Yes. Gospel #1 shows the laying of hands (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6) and Gospel #2 for today shows us receiving the Spirit by “hearing with faith†(Galatians 3:2).

Paul has just ‘one baptism’ (Ephesians 4:5) done by the “one Spirit†(1 Corinthians 12:13) and the “Gospel of the Kingdom†has three separate baptisms of the Father (John’s for forgiveness = Acts 19:3), of the Son (name of the Lord Jesus; Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5) AND the third and final laying of hands for the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6). My doctrinal outlines shows the multiple baptisms for the gospel of the Kingdom under Gospel #1 and the ‘one baptism’ for Paul’s Gospel in Gospel #2. How do you explain these seeming contradictions in your ‘one gospel’ theory? The answer is that you do not ever provide that for us. Instead you continue asking question after question like that is going to prove something.

Peter, John and James are said to be ‘sons of the bridal chamber’ (Mark 2:19) and John the Baptist calls them the ‘bride’ (John 3:29). Paul calls those believing his gospel “Christ’s body†(1 Corinthians 12:27) and he never uses the term “bride†(numphe #3565) even once in any of his letters. Christ says that the ‘bride’ is under the Law, until heaven and earth pass away (Matthew 5:18) to which James agrees (James 2:10). However, Paul says that the members of our mystery church (Ephesians 5:32) are under grace and not under law (Romans 6:14). How does your ‘one gospel’ theory explain the fact that the bride is under the Law AND the body is under grace and not under law? Your questions are not answering any of the contradictions of your ‘one gospel’ assumption that has yet to be even presented.

James teaches that the kingdom bride is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). Paul teaches that the body of Christ is justified by faith apart from works (Romans 4:4-6). I show that James is teaching kingdom doctrine to the ‘bride’ saved by Gospel #1 AND that Paul is addressing members of his mystery ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Ephesians 3:2) saved by Gospel #2. How do you solve these seeming contradictions?

Heh . . . Keep asking your questions, because everyone can already see you cannot write two paragraphs of commentary teaching your own ‘one gospel’ theory. Keep up the good work and,

Thank you for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

Heh . . . Keep asking your questions, because everyone can already see you cannot write two paragraphs of commentary teaching your own ‘one gospel’ theory. Keep up the good work and,

Once again Mr. Terral posts his arrogant attitude. Keep it up dude. By the way, it's not my theory. It's the Church's and the Church has been around for 2000 years. This thread is not about my One Gospel theory. It's about your two Gospel theory so if I were to talk about my one gospel theory I would be off topic and you would cry foul again I suspect.

I see nowhere in history until very recently that anyone has taught your two Gospel theory. And like we are told in scripture "there is nothing new under the sun". Look it up. So if you have something new, then it is probably wrong.

 

[Terral]

Your Off Topic Posts Do Not Mean Anything

Hi Thessalonian:

Thank you for writing.

Thessalonian >> Once again Mr. Terral posts his arrogant attitude. Keep it up dude.

If you ever develop your one gospel outline OR care to quote anything from my ‘two gospels’ presentation in the OP of this thread, then perhaps we will have something to debate. Otherwise your off topic chatter really does not mean anything and your 'empty' posts do not warrant any reply. GL.

Thank you again for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

Re: Where Is Your "One Gospel" Presentation??

Hi Thessalonian:



James teaches that the kingdom bride is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). Paul teaches that the body of Christ is justified by faith apart from works (Romans 4:4-6). I show that James is teaching kingdom doctrine to the ‘bride’ saved by Gospel #1 AND that Paul is addressing members of his mystery ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Ephesians 3:2) saved by Gospel #2. How do you solve these seeming contradictions?

It is funny that you pit James against Paul teaching two different Gospels. You refer to Romans 4:4-6 and James 2:24. Perhaps you want to start a bit earlier in both of these texts.

[2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
[3] For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
[4] Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due.
[5] And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

James 2:24
[22] You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
[23] and the scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness"; and he was called the friend of God.
[24] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Now do tell how Paul can make his case using Abraham and James can make his case using abraham if they are speaking of two different Gospels. You of course will sidestep and do some handwaving.

The solution to your question is quite simple. It is not the works that save us but the grace of God motivating us to the works that we do. One is not justified simply on faith but it has to be an active and living faith. However, one must have works to be saved or the very same Paul that you say teaches a different Gospel says>

Romans:
[6] For he will render to every man according to his works:
[7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
[8] but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

You ignored this passage when I quoted it above.
Paul seems to be confusing your two Gospels here. This is exactly what Jesus is saying in the sheep and the goats text in Matt 25. Or perhaps it is you who are confused. You have given me nothing that causes me to rethink the 2000 year old one Gospel approach and switch to your personal two Gospel approach to things. Our faith is no faith at all if it is not accompanied by the power of God working in us.

Eph 3
[20]
Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think,
[21] to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

We cannot boast of these things as Paul says because without God we cannot do them. Without his grace our works are as filthy rags (you know the verse), worthless. In him we can do all things (look it up dude).




Blessings.

 

[thessalonian]

This is an interesting passage as well:

Gal 3
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
[9] So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith.

Do tell what Gospel Paul is talking about here that was preached to Abraham. The Gospel of James 2:24 which you say is the Gospel of the Kingdom, that Abraham was under or the Gospel of Romans 4 that Paul says abraham was under. The Gospel that you say is the Gospel of Paul.


I am sure you will do some more grandstanding about how I didn't quote you or scripture and so my post is off topic.

 

[Terral]

Terral Is Here To Write On "The Topic" Of This Thr

Hi Thessalonian:

Thanks again for writing. Were you able to find anything errant in my Opening Post concerning the Two Gospels of the New Testament? I do not see your ‘one gospel’ outline in this recent post. You wrote:

Terral Original >> James teaches that the kingdom bride is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). Paul teaches that the body of Christ is justified by faith apart from works (Romans 4:4-6). I show that James is teaching kingdom doctrine to the ‘bride’ saved by Gospel #1 AND that Paul is addressing members of his mystery ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Ephesians 3:2) saved by Gospel #2. How do you solve these seeming contradictions?

Thessalonian >> It is funny that you pit James against Paul teaching two different Gospels.

You quoted me saying that “I show James is teaching KINGDOM DOCTRINE to the ‘bride’ . . .†and you are pretending my statement is about them ‘teaching two different Gospels.’ James’ audience was saved by obedience to the “gospel of the kingdom†(Matthew 24:14) that was trying to go to the whole world at the time this letter was written in about 50 AD.

Thessalonian >> You refer to Romans 4:4-6 and James 2:24. Perhaps you want to start a bit earlier in both of these texts. (snip)

No sir. The Justification doctrines are in lines #7 for Gospel #1 and Gospel #2 in the OP of this thread, which clearly show Paul teaching Justification by ‘faith apart from works’ (Romans 4:4-6) and James teaching Justification by ‘works and not by faith alone.’ James 2:24. You quoted from my explanations that there are two methods of Justification which are clearly contrary and contradictory to one another. The manner in which you try to merge the two together does nothing to prove your ‘one gospel’ theory.

Thessalonian >> You ignored this passage when I quoted it above. (snip)

Most of what you say has no bearing on the ‘one gospel’ (Thessalonian) or ‘two gospel’ (Terral) interpretation of the New Testament. Rambling about James is not going to prop up your case . . . Please try again if you ever develop that ‘one gospel’ outline. GL.

Thessalonian >> This is an interesting passage as well . . .

Pasting interesting passages to this thread is not going to explain how Christ is preaching the 'gospel of God' straight out of the box in Mark 1:14-15 three years before He died for anyone, which is Gospel #1 of the OP. Please paste your interesting off topic verses someplace else . . .

Thank you again for writing on the Gospels Debate Thread,

In Christ Jesus through obedience to Gospel #2 (from OP),

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

deleted by me.

 

[thessalonian]

Pasting interesting passages to this thread is not going to explain how Christ is preaching the 'gospel of God' straight out of the box in Mark 1:14-15 three years before He died for anyone, which is Gospel #1 of the OP.

I do believe I already explained this quite well. It is sad that you cannot understand the simple concept that the book was not completely written when Christ walked the earth. That the Gospel could not yet be presented in it's fullness (though he clearly eluded to it:
22: saying, "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised." ) until after the resurrection. They would not understand.

Please paste your interesting off topic verses someplace else . . .

Weren't you the guy who told me a few posts back I could post anything I wanted here?

Please write as many of these off topic posts on anything you like.

Yep. That was you.
Can't help contradicting yourself can you.

 

[Terral]

The Gospel Of The Kingdom VERSUS Our Gospel For Today

Hi Thessalonian:

Thank you for writing.

Terral Original >> Pasting interesting passages to this thread is not going to explain how Christ is preaching the 'gospel of God' straight out of the box in Mark 1:14-15 three years before He died for anyone, which is Gospel #1 of the OP.

Thessalonian >> I do believe I already explained this quite well. It is sad that you cannot understand the simple concept that the book was not completely written when Christ walked the earth. That the Gospel could not yet be presented in it's fullness (though he clearly eluded to it:
22: saying, "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised." ) until after the resurrection. They would not understand.

And you believe that? Heh . . . How many points shall we make to refute your mere assertion?

1. The concept that the ‘book was not completely written when Christ walked the earth’ is mere nonsense, because NONE of the New Testament was written in 30 AD. Mark wrote this account about three decades after everything was said and done in the Four Gospels.

2. You said that “the Gospel could not yet be presented in it’s fullness . . .,†however, Scripture quotes Christ saying,

“Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The TIME IS FULFILLED, and the kingdom of God is AT HAND; repent and believe in THE GOSPEL." Mark 1:14-15.

Therefore, the time was indeed full for the “Gospel of God†that Christ was preaching right here in Mark 1. John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2) preaches the same exact words of Christ (Matthew 4:17) and those of the Twelve (Matthew 10:7), which tells you that the time was full for this “Gospel of the Kingdom†(Matthew 4:23) even before Christ began preaching that Himself. The truly ‘sad’ part is that Thessalonian does not realize that the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matthew 9:35, Matthew 24:14, etc.) is a real Gospel message sent from God and preached by Jesus Christ Himself on this earth long before He died for anyone. That sad reality is compounded by fact that this side of the Debate is pointing these things out clearly using Scripture and he still refuses to believe the Word of God. Instead of even trying to present his own “one gospel†outline (which is impossible BTW) OR trying to “quote†from mine and show error, he quotes from our conversations about the topic and heads off to SomeWhereElseVille.

3. You go on about “The Son of man must suffer . . . and be raised on the third dayâ€Â. Was the ‘time full’ for that in Mark 1? No. Then obviously the time was indeed full for something else. You are trying to collect facts from later down the road and force that into the mouth of John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve, when they were offering the Kingdom of God to Israel through the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matthew 4:23, etc.). Peter and the Twelve did not even believe that God raised Him from the dead AFTER being told by the women (Mark 16:10-11) OR even from the two other disciples (Mark 16:12-13). Of course the events leading up to Christ shedding His blood take place in the Four Gospels, but that does not change what Christ Himself preached as the ‘gospel of God’ in Mark 1:14-15 straight out of the gate. Nor does that force the two lists of doctrinal elements from the two gospels in my OP into being the same things.

4. Those two lists of ‘opposing’ doctrinal components exist in your New Testament, because of the presence of these ‘two gospels’ themselves. If there were only one gospel (NOT), then there would be only one way to forgive sins (not water AND blood) and one way to receive the Spirit (not by laying hands AND by hearing with faith), Etc.

5. The gospel of the kingdom includes WORKS of repentance, confession and water baptism by a human being and laying of hands for the Holy Spirit. Paul’s gospel must be accepted as the ‘gift of God’ (Ephesians 2:8-9) by God’s grace through faith APART from works. Adding works from the Gospel of the kingdom makes VOID (1 Corinthians 1:17) the power of the cross to save. This simple truth tells you that we cannot add the works of the first to the second . . .

Please take one quick glance at the Opening Post and let’s discuss the content of those two doctrinal outlines OR present your own doctrinal outline that makes your ‘one gospel’ case. Good luck in the Debate,

And thank you again for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

So terral, how is it that you, a brick layer from St. Pete, have become the smartest man in the world about the Bible. Have you thought of starting your own Church? You've done an excellent job of nullifying the word of God. Forget about those four gospels. Those are the teachings of Christ who taught a gospel of works. The beautitudes have nothing for us. They are a part of the gospel to the jews as well. Proverbs and Psalms really offer nothing to us. And by the way if you hear this word of God and apply it to your life you are performing the gospel of works. This is really incredible terral. Don't know why I didn't see it before. I can say "lord, lord" and enter the kingdom of heaven. Only the Jews couldn't. :o I am curious though, what scriptures did the Bereans search to find the truth of Pauls words? I'm sure a smart guy like you has this figured out as well. Thanks for responding two the two Gospels debate.

 

[D46]

So terral, how is it that you, a brick layer from St. Pete, have become the smartest man in the world about the Bible. Have you thought of starting your own Church? You've done an excellent job of nullifying the word of God.

Where did this guy come from anyway?

 

[Terral]

The Gospel Of The Kingdom VERSUS Our Gospel For Today

Hi Thessalonian:

Thank you for writing. Have you found anything errant in the Opening Post to “Quote >>†and Debate? No? Did you finally draft that ‘one gospel’ doctrinal outline, so we can debate your own ‘doctrine of salvation?’ No? Then nothing has changed since the last time you stopped by here to cast a few of your stones . . .

Thessalonian >> So terral, how is it that you, a brick layer from St. Pete, have become the smartest man in the world about the Bible. Have you thought of starting your own Church? . . .

Many of my uncles and cousins have their own churches throughout Florida, but I have spent my life working in churches of many denominations at home and abroad. My work of service is to the ‘body of Christ’ (Ephesians 4:12) in the world today scattered all over the earth and not to any one particular denomination. Please stop by and hurl your insults anytime, which only shows everyone here that you have no ‘one gospel’ case. If you had found one thing errant in the Opening Post, then we would be looking at that and your arguments, instead of the meaningless dribble. Keep up the nice work and,

Thank you for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

Re: The Gospel Of The Kingdom VERSUS Our Gospel For Today

Hi Thessalonian:

Thank you for writing. Have you found anything errant in the Opening Post to “Quote >>†and Debate? No? Did you finally draft that ‘one gospel’ doctrinal outline, so we can debate your own ‘doctrine of salvation?’ No? Then nothing has changed since the last time you stopped by here to cast a few of your stones . . .

Thessalonian >> So terral, how is it that you, a brick layer from St. Pete, have become the smartest man in the world about the Bible. Have you thought of starting your own Church? . . .

Many of my uncles and cousins have their own churches throughout Florida, but I have spent my life working in churches of many denominations at home and abroad. My work of service is to the ‘body of Christ’ (Ephesians 4:12) in the world today scattered all over the earth and not to any one particular denomination. Please stop by and hurl your insults anytime, which only shows everyone here that you have no ‘one gospel’ case. If you had found one thing errant in the Opening Post, then we would be looking at that and your arguments, instead of the meaningless dribble. Keep up the nice work and,

Thank you for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Terral, your not too sharp I fear. It appears that you have been unable to understand my posts and how the relate to your two gospel theory and show it to be nonsense. This leads me to wonder if you actually understand your theory or for that matter if it is even yours but rather you have cut and pasted parts from some website or copied them from a book. Surely though you are not so simple minded that you insist that if I have not put my responses in your "official" format that I have made no valid arguements against you. I have been disproving your two gospel theory all along. Here is a summary of my one gospel theory. There is one Gospel. You can start at page 1 of the Bible and end at the book of revelations and you will have all of my scriptural support for it. By the end of the book God will have given you the compete ONE GOSPEL. It seems however you are unable to grasp the arguements of others. Your in your own little world. Now will you please answer at least one of my posts with substance. Thank you in advance.

 

[Terral]

Please Present Your One Gospel Theory Soon

Hi Thessalonian:

Have you yet to find anything errant to quote from the OP of this thread? No? Where is your presentation of your one gospel theory? No time for that either? Then nothing has changed one iota . . .

Thessalonian >> Terral, your not too sharp I fear. It appears that you have been unable to understand my posts and how the relate to your two gospel theory and show it to be nonsense.

The two gospel outlines appear in the OP using opposing doctrine precepts, because the ‘gospel of God’ that Christ preached in Mark 1:14-15 is NOT the same good news heralded by Paul that Christ died for our sins and God raised Him from the dead. You do not know the differences between the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matthew 4:23, Matthew 9:35, etc. = Gospel #1) AND Paul’s “word of the cross†(1 Corinthians 1:18 = Gospel #2) gospel message. That is your problem; not mine.

Thessalonian >> This leads me to wonder if you actually understand your theory or for that matter if it is even yours but rather you have cut and pasted parts from some website or copied them from a book.

Every word is mine and every diagram was drawn by me. What you wonder about is not my concern . . .

Thessalonian >> Surely though you are not so simple minded that you insist that if I have not put my responses in your "official" format that I have made no valid arguements* against you.

Where is your ‘one gospel’ interpretation of Scripture? Where is your simple outline teaching your one gospel of salvation? Do not confuse activity with achievement, because all of your rambling together amounts to nothing. Are the readers any more aware of your ‘one gospel’ position than when this Debate began? No. My two gospel outlines of the OP are still standing uncontested, because you do not know how to ‘quote >>’ someone and begin dismantling his positions using Scripture. If you would be so kind as to post your own version, then I will be happy to show you how that is done. Until then you represent a stone thrower uninterested in this topic.

Thessalonian >> I have been disproving your two gospel theory all along.

Heh . . . In your own mind . . . How did you prove that Christ was preaching Himself crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2 = Paul’s Gospel #2) in Mark 1:14-15 as the ‘gospel of God?’ How did you explain the fact that John the Baptist is preaching repentance and water baptism for forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4-5 = Gospel #1), but our forgiveness today is through Christ’s shed blood (Ephesians 1:7 = Paul’s Gospel #2)?? You are a participant in this Debate and the third party readers can judge us both. I cannot even quote from your presentation of the ‘one gospel’ MYTH, so how do you expect the readers to even understand your doctrine? Heh . . . Keep up the nice work of deluding yourself . . .

Thessalonian >> Here is a summary of my one gospel theory. There is one Gospel. You can start at page 1 of the Bible and end at the book of revelations and you will have all of my scriptural support for it.

Heh . . . see what I mean? This so-called Debate is so one-sided that I can hardly stop laughing . . .

Thessalonian >> By the end of the book God will have given you the compete ONE GOSPEL. It seems however you are unable to grasp the arguements* of others. Your in your own little world. Now will you please answer at least one of my posts with substance. Thank you in advance.

Your posts contain no Scripture. You quote nothing from my ‘two gospels’ presentation in the OP and you cannot even sit down and write your own outline. Please just go away. The chances are that someone who cannot spell the term ‘argument*’ properly also cannot present one for his ‘one gospel’ theory. Keep up the nice work,

And thank you for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

Your posts contain no Scripture

.

The chances are that someone who cannot spell the term ‘argument*’

Ah, the old childish lets pick on spelling and typos. Just for fun I ran just one post of yours through a spelling and gramar check yesterday. Be careful in your insults dude. They may come back to bite ya. :-D

 

[Terral]

Sticks And Stones Does Not Make A "One Gospel" Cas

Hi Thessalonian:

Thank you for writing.

Thessalonian >> Ah, the old childish lets pick on spelling and typos. Just for fun I ran just one post of yours through a spelling and gramar check yesterday. Be careful in your insults dude. They may come back to bite ya.

Heh . . . Maybe you forgot to run these four sentences through also, or the term ‘grammar’ would have two ‘m’s’ instead of just one. Sometimes it is funny how quickly things can turn around and do just that. Everyone is waiting for your ‘one gospel’ presentation. Even if you misspell every word, then at least your side of this Debate would have tried to prove something . . .

I would love to quote from your one gospel outline, but you refuse to post one or to quote from mine in the OP. If all you are capable of is casting these stones, then at least spell your words correctly . . . Otherwise the title of ‘child’ falls back on you.

Keep up the nice work and,

Thank you for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[thessalonian]

:

God bless you terral.