Only the army of angels return with Christ

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Let me start here with these three passages from scripture that show it is only our breath that returns back to God when we physically die as no one has ever ascended up to heaven after they died. It's only our breath/spirit that returns back to God.

Continuing with these scriptures below, especially 1Thessalonians 4:14, will God bring with him. When Christ returns with the clouds and His army of angels from heaven, Jesus then sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all His own to Him. Jesus will raise the dead first as even those who pierced Him will see Him coming with the clouds and then we who are Christ own, which are still alive at His coming, will be changed and then we are all caught up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air as we return with Him in our new glorified bodies in which we do not know what we will be like, other than we will be like Christ in His glorified body.


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[RandyK]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Let me start here with these three passages from scripture that show it is only our breath that returns back to God when we physically die as no one has ever ascended up to heaven after they died. It's only our breath/spirit that returns back to God.

Continuing with these scriptures below, especially 1Thessalonians 4:14, will God bring with him. When Christ returns with the clouds and His army of angels from heaven, Jesus then sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all His own to Him.

Here you say that 1st the angels come with Christ, and then the saints are gathered, presumably to meet Christ in the air. Certainly the angels are used by Christ to gather the saints, but I do think that Christ returns with his saints, as well.

The order of events seem to make this logical, organized direction. But in reality, it all takes place in an instant. The angels instantly bring the living saints into the presence of God in heaven, while the departed saints are already there. Then all, as part of the same process and in the same instant, return with Christ to earth.

The problem is, we don't know what Christ's revelation on earth really means. He, as a man, had already been with his Father in heaven, spiritually. So his earthly revelation was simply his appearance in the form of a man.

So I would say that his 2nd Coming is his appearance, with us, in a new form of humanity, as immortal humans. Since Christ's revelation can be understood in acts of human war and in acts of divine judgment, we don't know what the revelation of the entire army of Christ will consist of, whether a change in the atmosphere on earth, bringing peace, or the appearance of many millions of people?

We are told, however, that Christ will come just as he left, with the clouds in Acts 1. So there's that. I tend to think it will be more a revelation of Christ in the act of a change in atmosphere on earth, since mortal human history will continue on for another thousand years. Christ will come again with the clouds of heaven to unfold a new heavenly reality upon the earth, though in a different way than simply a mortal human appearance.

This is highly speculative to me, so I'm just giving you my opinion. I can hardly say I'm delivering facts--they are just conjectures. Thanks for introducing an interesting subject!

 

[Blade]

Thank you I disagree. Well Jude 1 14-15 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all...." This verse reminds me of the great falling away. Well that word used there can also mean "departure". Many years ago in the bible it was the first word used "departure". Yet that word can also mean "falling away"

In Jude "μυριάς" "myriads" if we look at 38 bibles "holy ones" "His saints". One translation Greek says "myriads" "holy myriads".

Not here to prove my personal view.

 

[RandyK]

Thank you I disagree. Well Jude 1 14-15 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all...." This verse reminds me of the great falling away. Well that word used there can also mean "departure". Many years ago in the bible it was the first word used "departure". Yet that word can also mean "falling away"

In Jude "μυριάς" "myriads" if we look at 38 bibles "holy ones" "His saints". One translation Greek says "myriads" "holy myriads".

Not here to prove my personal view.

You don't have that luxury. Every time you say what you think it is what you think, even if you are using Scriptures. Everything is interpretive, right or wrong. It may be black and white to you, but to someone else the idea that it is black and white may be *your interpretation.*

 

[for_his_glory]

RandyK in response to your post #2

Rev 19:11-21

John is now given a vision of the full sovereignty of God as Christ comes with great power and majesty of God to judge the world. The white horse is symbolic of what military Generals use to ride into battle as now is the timing of God’s judgment as He makes war against all who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior. The door of salvation will be closed forever at this time as no one is given a second chance on the last day after Christ returns.

His eyes like a flame of fire is His piercing look of indignation upon the world towards His enemies he is about to devour, but I do not want to get ahead of myself as this will be explained further down. On His head were many crowns meaning the conquest of every nation for Christ is now King of kings and Lord of lords over every nation under heaven as He will rule them with an iron rod. His robe is dipped in the blood of every martyr that has died for their witness and testimony of Christ for their time of vengeance will now be fulfilled.

The army that returns with Jesus is the army of angels being the host of heaven that comes down with Him and not the saints. Genesis 1:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; 33:2; 1 Chronicles 18:18; Nehemiah 9:6; Jeremiah 33:22. John 3:13 makes it very clear that no one has ever ascended up to heaven other than Christ. The only thing that goes back to God when we die is the very breath He gave us that made us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecclesiastics 12:7.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18; John 5:28, 29; John 6:40.

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I need to backtrack a little bit in order to show the chronology of the events that will take place at this time on the last day. When Christ returns in the clouds every eye will see Him and the earth will wail His coming, Rev 1:7. The earth is those who are worldly that followed after the beast from every nation. The kings of the earth and their armies are those political leaders of every nation that will gather their armies to fight against Christ when He returns when they see Him coming in the air.

At this time those who are in the grave and alive at His coming that are His own will then be caught up to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. The last day has no ending for we know from that point on we will be with the Lord for ever. We can not see this as a 24 hour day as this is the time of our seventh day rest like that of God in Genesis 2:3 as He sanctified that day and set it apart from all the other days that were evening and morning, but this seventh day had no evening.

Right before Christ returns the great harlot and mystery Babylon, being the revived Roman Empire, will be destroyed, Rev 17, 18. The marriage supper of the Lamb follows after this with Christ returning in the air with His army of angels who are the host of heaven, Rev 19:11-14. He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are asleep in their graves and those still alive at His coming that are His own. We are then given our new glorified bodies and caught up in the clouds to meet Him in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Once we are safely with Christ in the air, He only has to speak the words as He takes the beast and false prophet (son of perdition) alive and cast them into the lake of fire. All those political leaders from every nation on every continent that followed after the beast will be slain by the words Jesus speaks as what we read in Rev 19 is all done by Christ being in the air where we are yet with Him before He plants His feet on the mount of Olives.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you I disagree. Well Jude 1 14-15 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all...." This verse reminds me of the great falling away. Well that word used there can also mean "departure". Many years ago in the bible it was the first word used "departure". Yet that word can also mean "falling away"

In Jude "μυριάς" "myriads" if we look at 38 bibles "holy ones" "His saints". One translation Greek says "myriads" "holy myriads".

Not here to prove my personal view.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The Lord does come with ten thousands of His saints when He plants His feet on the Mt of Olives. When Christ returns in the air, then those who are in their graves and those still alive at His coming will be gathered up to Him to meet Christ in the air and will evermore be with Christ forever. Matthew 24:29-31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.