Do you think college could turn a person into an atheist? This is what many believe.
If you do, why?
I think it might be because students are made to choose between science and faith. Not sure.
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If you do, why?
I think it might be because students are made to choose between science and faith. Not sure.
While it did not turn me into an atheist, a friend of mine who was planning on becoming a pastor DID lose his faith completely his freshman year at a state university.
IMO there is such a diversity of perspectives, and the preponderance of the "scientific method" that unless one's faith is truly firm and established, those things will cause a young person to drift and possibly lose faith entirely.
Ken Ham turned me into an atheist*, because:
He is always talking about "God's word or man's word."
Christianity needs isolation to thrive.
*Partly, there were many other factors. But he helped me realize that I couldn't be a Christian and embrace modern science.
I think there's also peer pressure. Hangin' out, parties, etc. and this type of lifestyle can put a lot of pressure on a young adult that is trying to fit in with his/her peers.
I don't agree that one can't be a Christian and simultaneously embrace modern science. God created it but science is only trying to understand and explain the world around us as we see it. I've said it before that we are trying to explain Godly things with human understanding and God's ways are far above our ways.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
1 Corinthians 12:11-12 NKJV
8 "My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts."
Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV
We may one day understand everything but I doubt it will happen in this life.
Isaiah 55 refers to the wicked man, not general knowledge.
Seek the LORD while he may be found;
call upon him while he is near;
7let the wicked forsake his way,
and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. ESV
Only the thoughts of the wicked man are not like God’s. Paul wrote that we (can) have the mind of Christ. Now how can all our thoughts on any subject be different than God’s and yet we can have the thinking (mind) of Christ?
The list of renown scientists who were strong christian’s is long (Newton, Boyle, Faraday) and they would strongly disagree with your position.
I meant that scientific study takes what is understood today in human terms (whether fact or not) and projects that understanding into the science using human logic and reasoning. Science attempts to explain or understand the world around us based on that same human logic and reasoning and is biased accordingly.
For example. I was listening to Carl Sagan explain the problems with us understanding four dimensions. We live in a physical 3-deminsional world, LxWxH all at right angles to each other, and that is what we understand. It is impossible for us to envision a 4-dimensional world with a 4th dimension at right angle to the other three.
Suppose one was to pass an apple through a physical 2-dimensional world. What would a 2-dimensional being see? In their world there is only length and width and no depth. So as the apple passes through the plane of their world, they would see an object appear out of nowhere, grow in both length and width, and then shrink until it disappeared again. Could they possibly describe what they saw as an apple? No, but they would try to describe it using their logic and reasoning based on their 2-dimensional worldly limitations.
This is how I view science with regard to explaining our world around us. God is not limited to our 3-dimensional world so all we can do is attempt to describe what we see and experience with our limited 3-dimensional vision. In other words, we are explaining godly things using human understanding.
I believe this is, in part, what Paul spoke of when he wrote...
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.
1 Corinthians 13:11-12 NKJV
Compared to God, we are but children, thinking as children.
Nice post. It seems to me that we have differing views on reason and logic. You divide human reason and logic from that which God experiences. I do not see this division. Frankly, I do not see it in scripture except that wicked men do have a different reasons from the righteous. That is true I scripture and otherwise. Wicked men do not understand why righteous people make the choices they do. They do not see. Righteous men do understand why the wicked do as they do. They (we) are not blind.
As to the 4th dimension, does Sagan know exactly that that is? Have they tested it? As a christian, we could propose that the 4th dimension is the spiritual one. No one in the spiritual world is contained by the physical world. No doors keep spirits in or out. But interestingly enough, they are contain or inflamed by or even controlled by words. Words have no dimension. Information has no dimension. Words created the world. And spirits are subject to words on particular occasions. That is likely the 4th dimension and it isn't a different kind of reason or logic that prevents unbelievers from understanding this. It is a matter of character.
Paul said we see little. That is, we are lacking information. He did not say our reasonings are as a child and in fact, he said he once put away childish reasonings and reasoned like a man. God sees us as men. He said to Job, I think, something like stand up and talk to me like a man. God never called a grown man "a child" especially as compared to Him. That is not his viewpoint.
So I think your logic and reasoning is no different than God's when we are HIs children. What we lack is in the area of character that prevents us from have the understanding or information that would generate more decisions that reflect the mind of Christ. Paul, you, wrote that he thought those recipients of his letter had the mind of Christ. He did not think the had the minds of children.
Nice talking with you. Some of the things I wrote just occurred to me because of your post. I learned.
There’s hostility towards Christianity in higher ed. and it’s all forms of Christianity so it’s not as if liberal or socialist Christians get off easy.
Its trendy to hate Christianity. I think the reasons for this are extremist groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, some Christians being hostile to gay people & the cases of pedophilia that victims have come out with. Of course being rational, we know pedophiles are rampant and in just about every community, homophobia exists everywhere and in a religion where lying with someone of the same sex is condemned its very easy to be homophobic and the WBC are basically the walking embodiment of how modern society sees Christians lol.
I feel like it's the work of Satan to be honest. Most of these people have mental health problems (look how common it is now in younger people), have steadily changing views about gender that are increasingly complex, normalise the over-sexualisation of women and they either identify as atheist or a small minority identify as a "Non satan worshipping" satanist for attention and to be "different".
But Satan's greatest trick is to convince a human he isn't real. So I feel like this is his twisted way of reducing the amount of religious people, and tricking humans into worshipping him by living a life defient of God's word.
I feel like it's the work of Satan to be honest. Most of these people have mental health problems (look how common it is now in younger people), have steadily changing views about gender that are increasingly complex, normalise the over-sexualisation of women and they either identify as atheist or a small minority identify as a "Non satan worshipping" satanist for attention and to be "different".
But Satan's greatest trick is to convince a human he isn't real. So I feel like this is his twisted way of reducing the amount of religious people, and tricking humans into worshipping him by living a life defient of God's word.
I also personally believe science and religion can go hand in hand. I am a science nerd and I still found God. I don't wish to debate anybody though.