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OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

FreeGrace said:
Yes, He did. Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Clear.as.day.
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Interesting. I forgot the word "not" in the post you replied to with the quote above. What I meant to say was that He never said that someone who believed in Him could never not believe in Him. Whats interesting is that by your own admission someone who has once believed in Christ can then no longer believe in Him.

Is someone who believes in Christ saved?

Is someone who does not believe in Christ saved?

Will you answer those two questions straightforward with some passages to support each?


FreeGrace said:
This is just a huge twisting of what He actually said. What He NEVER said was anyone can lose salvation.

There are NO verses that state that anyone can leave salvation or eternal life. That continues to be the HUGE assumption made by some.
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There are NO verses that state that anyone cannot leave salvation or eternal life. So who is right and who is wrong?
 
Believer = Saved = Eternal Life = Your Name Written in the Book of Life

Revelation 22:18-19 God shall take away his part from the Book of Life
To be in the Book of Life means you once was Saved aka Eternal Life = Your Name Written in the Book of Life
To take away your part in the Book of Life means no more Eternal Life
What Part of this do you not understand?
Why can't no one "hear the Words that Jesus Speaks"?
John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

God Bless!
 
Cygnus said:
Do you understand the term elect? Predestination?
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Completely. The elect are the ones chosen by God. Predestination is what God has chosen for those who He has called.

So, are there some people who Christ did not die for their sins? Are there some people who cannot possibly ever believe in God?
 
Cygnus said:
Nathan....salvation and remaining in salvation isn't like a post in a thread.
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Why only take part of my post and quote it? Did you like or not like the rest of it? I was answering a previous post of yours with the rest of the post you left out.
 
Chopper said:
Did Mark ever claim he was saved?
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yup. as a young man.. if not for women drinking and gambling, he would not have had a problem.. :hips

Broke dad's heart when Mark told him to take his God and get out.. in not so pleasant words..

The passage that talks about Him not leaving us .. does not say we cant leave Him...
 
reba said:
yup. as a young man.. if not for women drinking and gambling, he would not have had a problem.. :hips

Broke dad's heart when Mark told him to take his God and get out.. in not so pleasant words..

The passage that talks about Him not leaving us .. does not say we cant leave Him...
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You can leave a doctors office....and still be covered by insurance.
 
Cygnus said:
so, now along with salvation via works and substained faith..you're pushing universalism?
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stinkeye

You get that from me posting a passage that states Christ is not only the propitiation for our sins, but for the whole world also?

Why do you have to always falsely accuse someone and dig at them? Have I pushed salvation via works?

If you actually feel that way, then there are better ways of putting things. I do not believe in universalism - I do believe that Christ took the sins of the whole world so that anyone can believe in Him for their salvation - knowing that not all will, and some will and then choose to leave that faith.
 
Nathan said:
If you actually feel that way, then there are better ways of putting things. I do not believe in universalism - I do believe that Christ took the sins of the whole world so that anyone can believe in Him for their salvation - knowing that not all will, and some will and then choose to leave that faith.
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Christ has the ability to have every single sin ever committed imputed to Him, but as you know that's not how it happened.
I'm happy to see you don't accept universalism...but the wording of your post sounded just like some of the universalist I've dealt with in the past. They play with words such as "all", "world" and so on.

Can anyone believe in Jesus for saving grace? The answer is no. God has to give an individual the ability to believe in Christ. John 6:65.
God has to draw (drag) and individual to Christ. God has to regenerate a person. It's not us hearing a preacher preach the gospel and then saying, OK. I believe. It's much, much more than that.
Once a person is saved they can "walk away" physically, mentally...but not spiritually. They may stop going to church, stop fellowship, perhaps even stop believing in Christ....make that physical or mental decision, but the spiritual nature of that regenerated person who was made a new creation will remain with Christ. Sealed by the Holy Spirit. God will never leave you nor forsake you.
 
Cygnus said:
You changed the bible when you twist it to say you can lose salvation.

When you actually present scripture rather than some deluted contribed theology that actually shows you can "leave Jesus", which means..leaves salvation...GET BACK TO ME. In fact, get back to us in this thread.
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Gentlemen. I'd like to inject some thoughts that might or might not help in this thread. First, I'll throw out a basic warning that the writer of Hebrews put out there for Christians.

The first is Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it." Now, most Theologians who separate the Elect Bride from the general population of the Church of today, claim that the Elect Bride cannot loose their Salvation because they have been chosen by Almighty God as a remnant to represent Him in every dispensation and generation.

Ok, if the Elect Bride can't loose their Salvation, then who is the writer of Hebrews referring to in Hebrews 2:1?

Also there is Hebrews 6:4-6 These are Hebrews who have believed on Jesus, as it indicates from the clear statements, probably lived a life powered by the Holy Spirit BUT at some point, left Christianity to go back to their Old Covenant roots. Not only did they fall away, but they can't get back.

Ok, consider what I've written. If you all understand what I've written, there is more to come. If you don't grasp what I've written, we'll stop here because I don't like debate and wasting my time. I'm to old for that.
 
reba said:
yup. as a young man.. if not for women drinking and gambling, he would not have had a problem.. :hips

Broke dad's heart when Mark told him to take his God and get out.. in not so pleasant words..

The passage that talks about Him not leaving us .. does not say we cant leave Him...
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I'm so sorry that your precious Dad had to hear that. You're right, the Jews in Hebrews 6:4 - 6 were leaving Christianity for their old system of their roots in the Old Covenant of the Law.
 
Chopper said:
Gentlemen. I'd like to inject some thoughts that might or might not help in this thread. First, I'll throw out a basic warning that the writer of Hebrews put out there for Christians.

The first is Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it." Now, most Theologians who separate the Elect Bride from the general population of the Church of today, claim that the Elect Bride cannot loose their Salvation because they have been chosen by Almighty God as a remnant to represent Him in every dispensation and generation.

Ok, if the Elect Bride can't loose their Salvation, then who is the writer of Hebrews referring to in Hebrews 2:1?

Also there is Hebrews 6:4-6 These are Hebrews who have believed on Jesus, as it indicates from the clear statements, probably lived a life powered by the Holy Spirit BUT at some point, left Christianity to go back to their Old Covenant roots. Not only did they fall away, but they can't get back.

Ok, consider what I've written. If you all understand what I've written, there is more to come. If you don't grasp what I've written, we'll stop here because I don't like debate and wasting my time. I'm to old for that.
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We could do a whole thread just on Heb 6.
I've heard it means what you said...I've heard it refers to the unsaved in the church..professing but not really believing. I've heard it refers to the churched who turned the christians in to the government...and the church disowned them and wouldn't allow them back in....plus a few others.
To be dogmatic about that verse is difficult.
 
Cygnus said:
We could do a whole thread just on Heb 6.
I've heard it means what you said...I've heard it refers to the unsaved in the church..professing but not really believing. I've heard it refers to the churched who turned the christians in to the government...and the church disowned them and wouldn't allow them back in....plus a few others.
To be dogmatic about that verse is difficult.
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Cygnus and Billy are discussing the OSAS on the one-on-one we invite all to read
 
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