Bible Study OSAS

[Corn Pop]

How can someone lose salvation if they never had it in the first place?

OSAS

The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

Jeremiah was known before he was born.

OSAS

 

[Eugene]

kiwidan, what makes you think they weren't saved?
OSAS? YES!!!

Aren’t we really reading here of a sin unto death instead of sending them to hell?
1 Tim 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Why should they learn anything if they’re on their way to the Lake of Fire?
Others of note might be Moses not believing God (Num 20:12), and Ananias, with Sapphira lying about a possession they sold. (Acts 5:1-3)

Notice also the man living with his father’s wife.
1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Forgive him?
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

2 Tim 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him (loss?) according to his works:
2 Tim 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Corn Pop]

kiwidan, what makes you think they weren't saved?
OSAS? YES!!!

Aren’t we really reading here of a sin unto death instead of sending them to hell?
1 Tim 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Why should they learn anything if they’re on their way to the Lake of Fire?
Others of note might be Moses not believing God (Num 20:12), and Ananias, with Sapphira lying about a possession they sold. (Acts 5:1-3)

Notice also the man living with his father’s wife.
1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Forgive him?
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

2 Tim 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him (loss?) according to his works:
2 Tim 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I deleted that scripture in my post as I had to correct myself as it was irrelevant. Sorry Brother.

 

[JLB]

kiwidan, what makes you think they weren't saved?
OSAS? YES!!!

Aren’t we really reading here of a sin unto death instead of sending them to hell?
1 Tim 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Why should they learn anything if they’re on their way to the Lake of Fire?
Others of note might be Moses not believing God (Num 20:12), and Ananias, with Sapphira lying about a possession they sold. (Acts 5:1-3)

Notice also the man living with his father’s wife.
1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Forgive him?
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

2 Tim 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him (loss?) according to his works:
2 Tim 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15

The work = people
gold, silver, precious stones = Christ
wood, hay, straw, = Man's effort

Paul teaches us that if we build with Christ Jesus, and His teachings with His character and nature, these people will endure on the Day of judgement.

If a man's work [people] are taught with man's doctrine and man's effort, then the work will not endure on the day of judgement and be burned.

If the man's work [people] are burned because he did not build with Christ, then the man himself will suffer loss because the people were burned and are lost, but he himself [the worker who was building] will be saved.


How does this teach OSAS.

It is just the opposite, it teaches us, just exactly what Jesus taught -

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Those that do not remain, will end up being burned.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I use to believe once saved always saved, but got a new insight to this. Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Rev 2:10 all say that to those who endure unto the end are those who will be saved. The end of what you might ask, the end of all the trials and tribulations we face daily in this word of evil wickedness that surrounds us and will wax worse and worse until Jesus returns and calls His Bride to meet Him in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4. Those whose faith in Christ is weak as they never allow it to mature or build upon it will be more inclined to curse God (blasphemy the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:31, 32) from their heart and completely turn away from Him denouncing God in their lives when not trusting God in all things when they face the trials and tribulations of this world and actually blame God for their torments.

Philippians Chapter Two gives us insight on how to endure by allowing ourselves to be humbled before the Father in all humility. Many come to the alter, but soon waver from it, but it is those who come to the alter of grace and are truly sealed by God who gives us His Spirit, 2Cor 1:22 and remain in the will of God through obedience to His word by applying it to their lives knowing that even when we face the evil of this world God is right there with us as we run the race that is set before us, Hebrews 12:1,2.

When we first accept Christ as our Lord and Savior through pure repentance we are only at that time delivered from our past sins as we begin our personal relationship with Jesus and true faith that is Christ will lead us into Gods righteousness as we have been Spiritually renewed, John 3:3-7, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

The only thing that can separate us from the love of God is blasphemy against His Holy Spirit which means coming against God and anyone who is truly sealed by His Spirit will not want to come against Him, but draw even closer to Him.

Many claim the name of Jesus through lip service only and have never truly been Spiritually born again and their names are not found written in the Lambs book of life for they add to and take away from the word of God, Rev 22:18, 19, even though they assume their names are there. Have they lost their salvation, no, because they never had Gods salvation to begin with. John 15; Matthew7:16, 20; Galatians 5:22; 2Peter 2:22 speaks of those who assume they are of Christ, but their branch did not remain in Christ as they bare no fruit. They remain in their own will and not Gods will. These are the ones who will not be able to endure unto the end and will not be saved and will hear Jesus say, "I never knew you", Matthew 7:21-23.

Those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:3-7, and have risen with Christ, Colossians 3:1-4, are those whose names are found written in the Lambs book of life. If we endure and overcome all persecution, even to death of this flesh, for the sake of Christ we will live and have eternal life with the Father. We are not saved at the moment of confession of faith that is Christ Jesus, Romans 10:9,10, but only sealed by God who keeps us and will help us to endure all things of this world, John 14:26; John 6:26-29; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22.

 

[JLB]

Those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:3-7, and have risen with Christ, Colossians 3:1-4, are those whose names are found written in the Lambs book of life.

To those who overcome, will not be blotted out of the book of Life.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


JLB

 

[Malachi]

How can someone lose salvation if they never had it in the first place?

And if they did have it in the first place, they could not lose it either. Salvation is not a set of keys that you can lose or misplace.

 

[Malachi]

To those who overcome, will not be blotted out of the book of Life.

Who is an overcomer? The one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Jn 5:4,5):
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Let's not complicate salvation unnecessarily. Many people are confused as it is.

 

[smaller]

And likewise God can hate someone who is still in the womb and hasn't done good or evil.

Romans 9:
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[Chopper]

Once saved always saved certainly is a complicated doctrine. Basically brought forward by Baptist theology. It was simply understood that if you were biblically saved, you were going to make it to the end and if not, you wouldn't. Those who made a profession but were not biblically saved would eventually leave the faith.

Because of all the controversy surrounding OSAS, I was forced to come up with a theology that I was confident with and could teach it to the folk Jesus gave me to shepherd. The following is my theology. Many of you have already heard it, but for those who haven't, here it is.

1. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

This is the Elect of God who will at some point in their life turn to Jesus for Salvation. Since the Father gives these people to His Son for a witness to the generation that they were born into, Christ Jesus looses none of them. Therefore OSAS is a reality for them.

2. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This simple verse means what it says. God intends all people to be saved. John Calvin taught that God saves the Elect and no one else. All others, basically He ignores them and they will be lost. That is not so according to John 3:16. So, what is the answer?

"The General Call Of The Gospel" is the answer. God has raised up folk who are Evangelists. They go out into the WORLD of which God has so indicated that He wants them saved. A very good amount of folk will make a profession of faith in Jesus the Son of God. Some of those professions will be genuine and will make it to the end. But, some will be fake. and at some time will fall away and be lost.

There you have the scope of my theology. Some are guaranteed of Salvation because of "election" whereby God chooses certain individuals, like the Apostles and will never loose Salvation, if I might use that terminology. Others will come to Salvation thru the General Call. Some will be genuine and make it to the end and some are deceived and will not make it to the end but apostatize.

 

[JLB]

Once saved always saved certainly is a complicated doctrine. Basically brought forward by Baptist theology. It was simply understood that if you were biblically saved, you were going to make it to the end and if not, you wouldn't. Those who made a profession but were not biblically saved would eventually leave the faith.

Because of all the controversy surrounding OSAS, I was forced to come up with a theology that I was confident with and could teach it to the folk Jesus gave me to shepherd. The following is my theology. Many of you have already heard it, but for those who haven't, here it is.

1. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

This is the Elect of God who will at some point in their life turn to Jesus for Salvation. Since the Father gives these people to His Son for a witness to the generation that they were born into, Christ Jesus looses none of them. Therefore OSAS is a reality for them.

2. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This simple verse means what it says. God intends all people to be saved. John Calvin taught that God saves the Elect and no one else. All others, basically He ignores them and they will be lost. That is not so according to John 3:16. So, what is the answer?

"The General Call Of The Gospel" is the answer. God has raised up folk who are Evangelists. They go out into the WORLD of which God has so indicated that He wants them saved. A very good amount of folk will make a profession of faith in Jesus the Son of God. Some of those professions will be genuine and will make it to the end. But, some will be fake. and at some time will fall away and be lost.

There you have the scope of my theology. Some are guaranteed of Salvation because of "election" whereby God chooses certain individuals, like the Apostles and will never loose Salvation, if I might use that terminology. Others will come to Salvation thru the General Call. Some will be genuine and make it to the end and some are deceived and will not make it to the end but apostatize.

Thanks Chopper, for sharing what you taught the people God entrusted you with.

It's not that easy to work with people, especially one on one, and walk them through the word and counsel them and pray for them, but when you see them begin to experience the victory in their own lives through applying the truths of God's word, it is truly joyful.

God bless you my friend.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Who is an overcomer? The one who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Jn 5:4,5):
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Let's not complicate salvation unnecessarily. Many people are confused as it is.

Amen Brother, that is simple enough, and most certainly the rock solid truth of the bible.

This is as well.

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’
Revelation 2:8-11

These were encouraged to overcome, even through suffering and tribulation, and to continue to overcome and be faithful unto death.

These were encouraged to continue to believe, in the face of severe testing and persecution.


We know that some may not face persecution and tribulation and death, for what they believe, but there certainly are those who will, these are encouraged to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, in the face of testing and persecution and tribulation.

It's very simple.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

Thanks Chopper, for sharing what you taught the people God entrusted you with.

It's not that easy to work with people, especially one on one, and walk them through the word and counsel them and pray for them, but when you see them begin to experience the victory in their own lives through applying the truths of God's word, it is truly joyful.

God bless you my friend.



JLB

Thanks old friend. Indeed, it's very difficult speaking to someone who is lost and needs Salvation. My experience has been one of joy and frustration. I remember one fellow who owned a trucking Company. He himself was a lumber jack who did very well in the lumber business. One evening, I took along with me one of the Deacons to familiarize him to witnessing.

We sat in his kitchen (the lumberjack) and I explained his need for the Savior. Just as I was about to hit on a major point, the phone would ring and one of his truckers had a problem that he, the owner, had to fix. This went on for several hours. A couple of times I almost gave up and left him to his trucking problems.

I'm glad I didn't because after a time, we, and his Wife all knelt down and he received Jesus as his Savior. It was a delight because he started coming to church every Sunday and occasionally Wednesday night.

It is a heartbreak when someone who gets saved and after a while fades out.