Our differeneces tell alot about us

[elijah23]

well no one is perfect neither indeed can be.

that is the point.we cant be that holy, we will die with some sin and by grace we will make it.

write down a list of daily sins and see how unholy you are and then look to cross.

gods ways doesnt mean we do anything, we repent and yes we have commands but that doesnt mean legalism which you espouse.

quit lying to god and tell him that you love him enough , you and i and no one will ever be able to love him back.

we will fail him, we will sin.

thats a fact. we cant be perfect. we must when we do realise that we sin repent.

its grace not works that gets you in.

First, I think you underestimate your ability to repent of your sin.

Second, the Lord is very merciful. If we are doing our best, we will be forgiven for our shortcomings. It isn’t anything to lose sleep over.

 

[jasoncran]

These scribes and Pharisees have not commanded you and me to do anything. They died many centuries ago. They haven't spoken to either of us.

so did the law, the first commandment and ten commandments are the law. while a standard we arent under the law. and even so,

i am a jew, you are gentile the ten commandments arent even revalant to you at all!

the noahide laws are.

and you say the pharisee died,hmm so there no more jews? no more judaism that dont sit in moses seat.

you err if you think that sanhedrin died out

http://www.haaretz.com/news/present...eks-to-revive-ancient-temple-rituals-1.214251

The present-day Sanhedrin Court decided Tuesday to purchase a herd of sheep for ritual sacrifice at the site of the Temple on the eve of Passover, conditions on the Temple Mount permitting.
The modern Sanhedrin was established several years ago and is headed by Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz. It claims to be renewing the ancient Jewish high court, which existed until roughly 1600 years ago, and meets once a week.

Professor Hillel Weiss, a member of the Sanhedrin, told Haaretz on Tuesday that the action, even if merely symbolic, is designed to demonstrate in a way that is obvious to all that the expectation of Temple rituals will resume is real, and not just talk.
Several years ago, a number of members of the various Temple movements performed a symbolic sacrifice on Givat Hananya, which overlooks the Temple Mount from Jerusalem's Abu Tur neighborhood. During the ceremony, participants sacrificed a young goat that was donated by a resident of Tekoa. The participants also built a special two-meter tall oven, in accordance with halakha (Jewish law).
The Passover sacrifice is considered a simple ceremony, relative to other works performed in the Temple. On Wednesday, the Sanhedrin will hold its main conference, entitled "Existential threats and ways to correct them." Rabbi Menachem Froman, far-right activist Moshe Feiglin, and Nativ editor Arieh Stav will participate in the conference. The guest of honor will be Makor Rishon publisher Shlomo Ben-Zvi.

they are around, and well if the law is dead then why do try to do that command from jesus?

btw the commands by paul dont negate any statement that isnt to be time limited command such as that command to obey the pharisees.

jesus also said sell all to the poor ? have ye
he also never said the sabaath was done for the jews. paul and the church did.

he never said the law was fulfilled till he died and did tell he came to fulfill it. paul taught this.

pauline statements hold weight when revalant(yes he address things of that time that were to the first audience only). when that is the case we are to follow the prinicipals of that.

 

[reba]

If all that is good are Matt Mark Luke and John? Do you, Elijah, ever tell any one what Jesus has done for you?

 

[elijah23]

well no one is perfect neither indeed can be.

that is the point.we cant be that holy, we will die with some sin and by grace we will make it.

write down a list of daily sins and see how unholy you are and then look to cross.

gods ways doesnt mean we do anything, we repent and yes we have commands but that doesnt mean legalism which you espouse.

quit lying to god and tell him that you love him enough , you and i and no one will ever be able to love him back.

we will fail him, we will sin.

thats a fact. we cant be perfect. we must when we do realise that we sin repent.

its grace not works that gets you in.

I espouse “legalism†because when I obey the rules the Lord has taught me, my problems disappear. Check this out:

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:33 RSV

In the late 1980s the Lord taught me not to do certain things. When I obeyed, my problems disappeared.

 

[elijah23]

well no one is perfect neither indeed can be.

that is the point.we cant be that holy, we will die with some sin and by grace we will make it.

write down a list of daily sins and see how unholy you are and then look to cross.

gods ways doesnt mean we do anything, we repent and yes we have commands but that doesnt mean legalism which you espouse.

quit lying to god and tell him that you love him enough , you and i and no one will ever be able to love him back.

we will fail him, we will sin.

thats a fact. we cant be perfect. we must when we do realise that we sin repent.

its grace not works that gets you in.

We have been commanded to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls.

 

[elijah23]

well no one is perfect neither indeed can be.

that is the point.we cant be that holy, we will die with some sin and by grace we will make it.

write down a list of daily sins and see how unholy you are and then look to cross.

gods ways doesnt mean we do anything, we repent and yes we have commands but that doesnt mean legalism which you espouse.

quit lying to god and tell him that you love him enough , you and i and no one will ever be able to love him back.

we will fail him, we will sin.

thats a fact. we cant be perfect. we must when we do realise that we sin repent.

its grace not works that gets you in.

Not only have we have been commanded to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, but Jesus said that was the great, and first, commandment. I think that is Matthew 22:34-38.

 

[jasoncran]

First, I think you underestimate your ability to repent of your sin.

Second, the Lord is very merciful. If we are doing our best, we will be forgiven for our shortcomings. It isn’t anything to lose sleep over.

huh. so i can just stop lusting, no sir its not that simple.

like that woman with the issue we cant stop sinning we dont have that power, we cant be holy. we are called to grow in grace and by that we grow.

be ye holy as i am holy. most christians say that is our goal if we love the lord we will please him but we simply wont ever be that holy.

sorry. you teach a legalism.

we repent and i have begged god to heal me of sin and i await that to happen and the other mods know what the struggle is.

beseting sins ever heard of them?

not so easy to just stop.

 

[elijah23]

well no one is perfect neither indeed can be.

that is the point.we cant be that holy, we will die with some sin and by grace we will make it.

write down a list of daily sins and see how unholy you are and then look to cross.

gods ways doesnt mean we do anything, we repent and yes we have commands but that doesnt mean legalism which you espouse.

quit lying to god and tell him that you love him enough , you and i and no one will ever be able to love him back.

we will fail him, we will sin.

thats a fact. we cant be perfect. we must when we do realise that we sin repent.

its grace not works that gets you in.

Yes, we will be perfect. The Lord commanded us to be.

Were it not for the Lord’s grace, we would all be condemned forever for our past sins.

 

[jasoncran]

Not only have we have been commanded to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, but Jesus said that was the great, and first, commandment. I think that is Matthew 22:34-38.

man you kid yourself if you think that you can love god like that, we cant it impossible our hearts are inclinded toward sin,

see romans 7.

if you cant see that go repent. paul said that which i would do that i do not, that i wouldnt do that i do.

what does that mean?

he means his flesh is under the law of sin. we all have that problem and so long as we have that, we cant be that level of perfection .

we will love something above god.

yes when we see that we are doing idolatry we should repent but lets be honest we are full of it.

the blood cleanses us, shoot even in the days of isiah he saw that god could cleanse us like that!

 

[reba]

Yes, we will be perfect. The Lord commanded us to be.

Were it not for the Lord’s grace, we would all be condemned forever for our past sins.

When we think we have/can keep the law this is what Jesus had to say

Luk 18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

 

[jasoncran]

I espouse “legalism†because when I obey the rules the Lord has taught me, my problems disappear. Check this out:

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:33 RSV

In the late 1980s the Lord taught me not to do certain things. When I obeyed, my problems disappeared.

so you are that HOLY.

you dont lie , theres no potential to sin?

sorry and you dont even get the law in the first place! its to point you the cross and you to ask him for mercy.

judaism better fits you then christ.

if you actually read the law then and those commands and what was said and then took at as jesus said to the jews then you would follow the sabbaath as well as the law was still then and the jewish sect called the lawyers asked which was the greatest.

jesus said correcting them if they loved the LORD and neighbor then they would fulfill all ten commandments. the sixth commandments say keep the sabaath holy

if the law is done and we arent under it then whats the point?

i will tell you. we get the law in us when repent.jesus fulfilled the law and when follow the law when we repent and do those commands given by the apostles.

john exounded what that was.
if any man says he loves god and yet he hates his neighbor how dwelleth the love of god.
one john 4

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

the new covenant does use the law to make a point, its a standard but we arent under the law at all.

it has no power over us.

 

[elijah23]

mathew 23.






hmm lets see, today is the seventh day of chanukah. i do hope you went to the temple or have a menorah to light.

or follow the shabat which is coming up.

and if not why not. jesus just commanded you to obey the jews.

Read the whole thing. It seems to me Jesus is less issuing a command, and more pointing out the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees. Pretend like you are there listening to him:

[1] Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples,
[2] "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat;
[3] so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.
[4] They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger.
[5] They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,
[6] and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues,
[7] and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. Matt 23:1-7 RSV

 

[jasoncran]

Read the whole thing. It seems to me Jesus is less issuing a command, and more pointing out the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees. Pretend like you are there listening to him:

[1] Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples,
[2] "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat;
[3] so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.
[4] They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger.
[5] They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,
[6] and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues,
[7] and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. Matt 23:1-7 RSV

i did and he command us to follow the law and feasts that they command if it doesnt command the torah itself.
so if that is the case then you are to obey that command.

the law is in effect.

i look at the torah whenver i find it needed and its a deep theologica one i will go to the jews and read what the sages say.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This discussion is fine, but perhaps one of you could bring this around to how it relates to how our differences about such things shows who has God's approval and who does not.

Some say the doctrinal differences themselves show who has God's approval (for surely we know someone who denies that Christ rose from the grave, for example, would show they don't have God's approval). While some say it is how we conduct ourselves when we disagree, whether it be in accordance with the character of Christ or not, that shows who has God's favor.

Various other scriptures lead me to side with the latter view. Especially, "16 By their fruit you will recognize them" (Matthew 7:16 NIV1984 emphasis mine), where Christ was speaking of false prophets (who obviously don't have God's approval) and how to recognize them.

 

[Hitch]

This discussion is fine, but perhaps one of you could bring this around to how it relates to how our differences about such things shows who has God's approval and who does not.

Some say the doctrinal differences themselves show who has God's approval (for surely we know someone who denies that Christ rose from the grave, for example, would show they don't have God's approval). While some say it is how we conduct ourselves when we disagree, whether it be in accordance with the character of Christ or not, that shows who has God's favor.

Various other scriptures lead me to side with the latter view. Especially, "16 By their fruit you will recognize them" (Matthew 7:16 NIV1984 emphasis mine), where Christ was speaking of false prophets (who obviously don't have God's approval) and how to recognize them.

In your original example isnt Paul speaking about working out differences within the church?

 

[Stormcrow]

18...I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. (1 Cor. 11: NIV1984)

How do divisions in the church show who has God's approval?

This verse needs to be taken in context. Paul is chiding them for their factious behavior, and verse 19 - as I read it - reads like sarcasm. Here's the context of this verse:

{17} But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. {18} For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. {19} For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. 1 Corinthians 11:17-19 (NASB)

In other words, Paul is saying you (Corinthians) create factions so that some can always say they are better than others. He found their behavior contemptible and wholly unchristian.

Paul is using sarcasm in verse 19 to try to shame them for their bad behavior. He dealt with their factious, divisive behavior earlier in the letter, too:

{11} For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you. {12} Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." {13} Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:11-13 (NASB)

These factions were threatening to destroy the church. This is clearly a case where Paul is writing to address a specific situation that points to a greater, universal truth from which we can all benefit: divisions in the church destroy the church.


Verse 19 is not to be taken as affirming such behavior, then or now.