Our faith is our works, and our works are our faith

[RBDERRICK]

God's message to man, is that we must believe God to please Him. Because the error of works without faith justifies no man.

God's message to man also, is that we must do God's faith to be justified by Him. Because the error of faith without works is dead to God.

When God says faith without works is dead, being alone, He's saying only faith with works is alive.

This message is also revealed in being an example of faith, by our works:

Hebrews
{13:7} Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.

This Scripture can go unnoticed in the obvious message it delivers: Following a person's example, is following their faith. And every person knows following a person's example, is by following their works and manner of life.

Therefore, our faith is our works.

People can try to argue having faith without works, and being saved by their faith apart from their works, but who would ever teache following the example of someone by their faith alone, and not by their works? Even as faith is works is dead, so following a person's faith without works is impossible.

God shows us here the folly of preaching faith without works, by tying our example in life, to our faith.

Our faith is our works, and our works is our faith, because God says our example of how we live, is our faith to either follow or reject.

And just to make sure no one tries to argue God preaches an example of faith, and not an example by works:

John
{13:15} For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

2 Peter
{2:21} For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

James
{5:10} Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

1 Tim
{4:11} These things command and teach. {4:12} Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Our works is our faith, even as our example by works, is our example of faith.

Separating our faith from our works on the face of it, is hypocrisy to all responcible children and adults. And so, it is instead framed in 'theological' terms of being saved and jsutified by our faith alone. Which has an appearance of humility, but has no practical example to follow.

In answert to such cotrinal sleight of hand, God declares our example to follow, which can only be by works, is in deed and in truth our faith to follow.
1 John
{3:18} My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. {3:19} And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

Here we see our example of faith by works, is the foundation for assuring our own hearts, that we are of the truth, by doing it. And likewise we assure ourselves we are following a good example of faith, by doing doing the truth.

2 John
{1:4} I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

How did the apostle find them walking in the truth? By hearing their words of faith only? Or by seeing their example of doing it? By the example of doing the truth. Not by any example of only talking about it.

Who would ever try to follow a person's 'faith' alone, apart from their example set by works and manner of life?

Who wants to follow someone that says not to look at what they're doing, but only listen to what they're saying??

Even so, faith without works is dead, and the example of our works, is our faith. It's not just a shadowy 'expression' of faith, but the deeds being done are the faith we now have.

 

[follower]

Even so, faith without works is dead

Yes, as also an example is Determined by Yahweh:
Like a body without breath. A human not breathing. Deceased. Expired. No life in it.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yes, as also an example is Determined by Yahweh:
Like a body without breath. A human not breathing. Deceased. Expired. No life in it.

Faith without works is a life without faith: dead man walking.

 

[gordon777]

Faith without works is a life without faith: dead man walking.

Depends what works, would you not say ?


Here are works:


1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.



Our faith is not our works, and our works are not our faith, but the work of God is our faith, and consequently, our faith is HIs work.


To understand that:


1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:



Here is the failure of your doctrine/teaching, that works makes all good.

James firstly mentions Abraham, but that was before the knowledge of charity/the love of Chrfist on the earth, so perfection has a higher meaning afterwards...

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


The works mentioned alone show the standard required, and even ends on perfection, as James had mentioned, but does vain man want to see what perfection is, once Abraham is excluded. ( in his lifetime/knowledge)


Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Depends what works, would you not say ?

Not necessarily. The Bible shows that a man and his faith is known by his works. Whether he and his faith is good or evil, is judged by the works, whether being good or evil. Evil men also do their evil works by faith from an evil heart.

Matthew
{12:33} Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

The works of God are done by the faith of Jesus. The works of man are done by his own faith alone.

The former are judged good and righteous by God. The latter are judged insufficient to be acceptable and worthy of God and His Son.

Here are works:


1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

These are the works of man done by his own faith alone. The only works we do by the faith of Jesus, are from a pure heart of His Spirit and charity.

Our faith is not our works, and our works are not our faith,

This is a doctrinal conclusion of one's own making, that does not comply with Scripture teaching the opposite.

It is an example of doctrine by one's own faith alone, that is not the faith of Jesus found in Scripture.

Bible truth is, that we and our faith are known by our works. Our faith is judged by our works. Our faith is our works.

but the work of God is our faith, and consequently, our faith is HIs work.

This is true, and is neither Scripturallly nor logically concluded from the previous statement.

By the work of the Spirit in our heart, we are given the gift of Jesus' faith, whereby we now do only the works of God through His faith.

Once again, a man's works are his faith, because Jesus says we and our faith are known by them.

The effort to separate our heart from our faith, is the delusion of believing in ourselves to be one thing, while doing another.

"I know that I still do bad things, but my heart is still good..."

Here is the failure of your doctrine/teaching, that works makes all good.

Not what I'm teaching. Show anything specific point that leads you to this conclusion, and if you're right, then I'll be glad to correct it. Thanks.

James firstly mentions Abraham, but that was before the knowledge of charity/the love of Chrfist on the earth,

This is nonsensical, since Abraham knew the Lord and walked with Him. Even as did Adam (until he transgressed), as well as righteous Abel, Enoch, Noah...

The first commandment of the Lord has always been to love the Lord with all the heart.

Galatians
{3:16} Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

{3:17} And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
The covenant made with Abraham, was made by Christ, and the ssed of faith planted in Abraham is Christ.

The seed of faith planted in Abraham's heart is Christ, and the covenant made with him was by Christ: Niether Christ, His seed, nor His covenant is ever without His own love and charity from the heart.

What you must mean is, that until Christ was made flesh, Jesus' Christ Himself was not living on earth. But that does not prevent man from loving Him beforehand, any more than His law by Moses disannulling His promised covenant of faith and love in the heart.

God's love for His creatures and all men, has always been on earth from the beginning of His creation:

Rev {4:11} Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Matthew
{5:45} That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. {5:46} For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Not all men recieve His faith and love, to love God and one another.

so perfection has a higher meaning afterwards...

Not so:

Psalms
{101:2} I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

1 Chron
{29:18} O LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee: {29:19} And give unto Solomon my son a perfect heart, to keep thy commandments, thy testimonies, and thy statutes, and to do all [these things,] and to build the palace, for the which I have made provision.

There is no higher perfecting of a perfect heart toward God. The only difference is the faith to continue daily and fall not, which is the faith of Jesus. After His death, burial, and resurrection, the faith of Christ is now given to any man on earth, that will repent with a whole heart for His sake.

And so the growth of Christ's faith and love is greater throughout the earth by Jesus Christ, but not the perfection of heart and life walking with Him:

Gen
{26:4} And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; {26:5} Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Man is either loving God with a whole heart, or not. We are either keeping His works blameless, or not. It is only the law of God that has changed from old to new. But walking uprightly before Him with a perfect heart has never changed, since before Adam fell by transgression.

Gen
{5:23} And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: {5:24} And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.

 

[WIP]

I believe our works is the expression of our faith and I believe that is what James talks about. Jesus spoke about false faith...

"Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Matthew 15:7-9 NKJV