Growth Our God and Father

[netchaplain]

With this article I have included the link to a new site (August 1) which contains the material I believe is central for the learning of the antiquated Christian writers whom I believe are well within the Biblical dispensational ideology. As many are aware, their teachings are applicable within the spiritual growth category and many are finding these teachings instructional, which is also encouraging to the believer.

It’s the “None But the Hungry Heart†daily devotional anthology from Miles J. Stanford which some are familiar with. It is also (in my opinion) the center of dispensational thought, as it contains compilations of numerous authors (circa 1700-late 1800’s), which I also believe (since studying them for the last 15 years) is a very useful avenue the Lord is using to teach His Word.

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

God’s blessings to our Families and God be blessed above all!

--NC


Our God and Father

The love of God and the love of the Father are from the same blessed One. The love of God comes down to us in all our ruin, but the love of the Father connects us with Himself in all His own divine perfection. Let us see this difference.

In the Old Testament the name of the Father was not revealed. He was known as God Almighty and as Jehovah. Still, His love as God for His people was unbounded. He says, “He that touches you touches the apple of His eye†(Zech 2:8). Then the love of God came down to man in his lost estate while man was under trial, and the judgment of death which was on him had not been removed. There was nothing then about drawing the believer to Himself as a son to a father.

But when the Lord Jesus came, “God commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us†(Rom 5:8). He came down to us in our lost estate, and removed in the Cross the judgment that lay upon us; and until we know what the love of God has effected, and that He can receive us in love and righteousness—as the parable of the prodigal prefigures—there can be no knowledge of the Father’s love. It is only when we know Him as sons, as brought to the Father in the Lord Jesus that we can enjoy the Father’s love.

We must learn fully the love of God as come down to us, before we can rise to Him. The prodigal had not entered into the greatness of the reconciliation until he was fitted to enjoy his new relationship to his father—as in Romans 5:11, “we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.†We get no allusion to the Father in Romans (as referring to the believer’s son-ship—NC) till we come to chapter 8; then all distance has been removed; all that descending love could accomplish we enjoy; then we come to the great fact, that led by the Spirit of God we are the sons of God; we are now in a new relationship to Him and it is in the Spirit of the Son we cry, “Abba, Father.â€

Our blessed Lord’s great work was to declare the Father, not only to relieve man according to his own sense of want, but according to the fullness of the Father’s heart. My need was not the measure of His grace; in all things His love super-abounded, therefore His love is properly the measure of grace. Until you know where His grace has set you, you cannot enjoy your new relationship, nor ascend to the love of the Father.

You learn from Hebrews that the Lord Jesus’ own were drawn away from the earth, to be in association with Himself in the Holiest of All, outside of everything here; and there we know that by Him we have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Unless “His love is perfected in us,†and we know that “as He is, so are we in this world,†we cannot be consciously as the Lord Jesus before the Father, nor can we know the Father’s love as the Lord Jesus says, “The Father Himself loves you, because He loves Me.â€

None can enjoy love but in the place where the loved one is. It is a great cheer and solace to the heart, when in company with the Lord Jesus, we are brought into such nearness to the Father that we can know and enjoy His love. When we are in nearness, we are not thinking of anything down here; our hearts are drawn away in the blessedness of being loved by our Father.

—J B Stoney

 

[teddy trueblood]

Netchaplain, [edited]

You quoted someone including the following:

“In the Old Testament the name of the Father was not revealed. He was known as
God Almighty and as Jehovah.”

But ‘Jehovah’ (YHWH) is the personal name of the Father alone.

In fact,only Jehovah is the Father in heaven - Ps. 2:7 (Acts 13:33); Is. 64:8 (and numerous Israelite personal names like 'Abijah' which mean 'The Father is Jehovah')

Psalms 2:7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. -ASV.

Acts 13:33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. - ASV.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jehovah, the Father alone, is also the only person called ‘Almighty’ and ‘Most High’:
Gen. 17:1; Ps. 91:1, 2; 2 Cor. 6:18; Rev. 19:6; 21:22.

 

[netchaplain]

Netchaplain, [edited]

You quoted someone including the following:

“In the Old Testament the name of the Father was not revealed. He was known as
God Almighty and as Jehovah.”

But ‘Jehovah’ (YHWH) is the personal name of the Father alone.

In fact,only Jehovah is the Father in heaven - Ps. 2:7 (Acts 13:33); Is. 64:8 (and numerous Israelite personal names like 'Abijah' which mean 'The Father is Jehovah')

Psalms 2:7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. -ASV.

Acts 13:33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. - ASV.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jehovah, the Father alone, is also the only person called ‘Almighty’ and ‘Most High’:
Gen. 17:1; Ps. 91:1, 2; 2 Cor. 6:18; Rev. 19:6; 21:22.

Hi Teddy - Thanks for your reply. Much of the material from that era (1700-late 1800's) can often take time to develop a useful comprehension from the manner they taught.

What the author intends is that God was not presented to men in the capacity as a Father but just God and Creator, not in the capacity of son-ship with Him; as Israel was presented as children of God, or a people of God. The son-ship relationship between God and man in His capacity as a Father was not prepared until the union of man with God by Christ, thus instead of Him just being our God, He now is also the Christian's Father--this is to the Christian only. To unbelieving Israel He will always be their God; to the believer, their Father and God (John 20:17).

In Psalms 2:7, it is Christ being spoken of as the Son by His Father, Who is also His God.

In Isaiah 64:8, the use of the word Father is in the capacity of Creator, as all mankind are His creation or offspring, but not in son-ship, which was not available until the Lord's Cross-work. This is why the word "adoption" doesn't arise in Scripture until Romans 8:15 and son-ship is revealed due to Christ sending the Holy Spirit.

 

[chakham]

Netchaplain, [edited]

You quoted someone including the following:

“In the Old Testament the name of the Father was not revealed. He was known as
God Almighty and as Jehovah.”

But ‘Jehovah’ (YHWH) is the personal name of the Father alone.

In fact,only Jehovah is the Father in heaven - Ps. 2:7 (Acts 13:33); Is. 64:8 (and numerous Israelite personal names like 'Abijah' which mean 'The Father is Jehovah')

Psalms 2:7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. -ASV.

Acts 13:33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. - ASV.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jehovah, the Father alone, is also the only person called ‘Almighty’ and ‘Most High’:
Gen. 17:1; Ps. 91:1, 2; 2 Cor. 6:18; Rev. 19:6; 21:22.

Hi Teddy - Thanks for your reply. Much of the material from that era (1700-late 1800's) can often take time to develop a useful comprehension from the manner they taught.

What the author intends is that God was not presented to men in the capacity as a Father but just God and Creator, not in the capacity of son-ship with Him; as Israel was presented as children of God, or a people of God. The son-ship relationship between God and man in His capacity as a Father was not prepared until the union of man with God by Christ, thus instead of Him just being our God, He now is also the Christian's Father--this is to the Christian only. To unbelieving Israel He will always be their God; to the believer, their Father and God (John 20:17).

In Psalms 2:7, it is Christ being spoken of as the Son by His Father, Who is also His God.

In Isaiah 64:8, the use of the word Father is in the capacity of Creator, as all mankind are His creation or offspring, but not in son-ship, which was not available until the Lord's Cross-work. This is why the word "adoption" doesn't arise in Scripture until Romans 8:15 and son-ship is revealed due to Christ sending the Holy Spirit.

So when Jews prayed to 'Our Father" they really weren't addressing him as Avinue but just thought of him as this far and away impersonal God? How many definitions of Father are there?

Isaiah who prayed: Look down from heaven... for you are our Father though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Yehovah, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

In Jeremiah, God Himself calls on every Israelite to pray to him as the heavenly Father: And I said: "You shall call Me, "My Father", and not turn away from me."

Malachi also spoke of Gods role as Father. Have not we all one Father? Did not God create us?

The Mishnah shows that Jews knew and called upon God as their Father. Upon whom shall we rely? Upon the Father in heaven!

I dont understand how anyone can accept that God called Israel his son, His first born, His children but then go on to say we don't know how to look upon Him as our Father? He has been our Avi long before Jesus showed up.

 

[netchaplain]

Netchaplain, [edited]

You quoted someone including the following:

“In the Old Testament the name of the Father was not revealed. He was known as
God Almighty and as Jehovah.”

But ‘Jehovah’ (YHWH) is the personal name of the Father alone.

In fact,only Jehovah is the Father in heaven - Ps. 2:7 (Acts 13:33); Is. 64:8 (and numerous Israelite personal names like 'Abijah' which mean 'The Father is Jehovah')

Psalms 2:7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. -ASV.

Acts 13:33 that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children, in that he raised up Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. - ASV.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jehovah, the Father alone, is also the only person called ‘Almighty’ and ‘Most High’:
Gen. 17:1; Ps. 91:1, 2; 2 Cor. 6:18; Rev. 19:6; 21:22.

Hi Teddy - Thanks for your reply. Much of the material from that era (1700-late 1800's) can often take time to develop a useful comprehension from the manner they taught.

What the author intends is that God was not presented to men in the capacity as a Father but just God and Creator, not in the capacity of son-ship with Him; as Israel was presented as children of God, or a people of God. The son-ship relationship between God and man in His capacity as a Father was not prepared until the union of man with God by Christ, thus instead of Him just being our God, He now is also the Christian's Father--this is to the Christian only. To unbelieving Israel He will always be their God; to the believer, their Father and God (John 20:17).

In Psalms 2:7, it is Christ being spoken of as the Son by His Father, Who is also His God.

In Isaiah 64:8, the use of the word Father is in the capacity of Creator, as all mankind are His creation or offspring, but not in son-ship, which was not available until the Lord's Cross-work. This is why the word "adoption" doesn't arise in Scripture until Romans 8:15 and son-ship is revealed due to Christ sending the Holy Spirit.

So when Jews prayed to 'Our Father" they really weren't addressing him as Avinue but just thought of him as this far and away impersonal God? How many definitions of Father are there?

Isaiah who prayed: Look down from heaven... for you are our Father though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Yehovah, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

In Jeremiah, God Himself calls on every Israelite to pray to him as the heavenly Father: And I said: "You shall call Me, "My Father", and not turn away from me."

Malachi also spoke of Gods role as Father. Have not we all one Father? Did not God create us?

The Mishnah shows that Jews knew and called upon God as their Father. Upon whom shall we rely? Upon the Father in heaven!

I dont understand how anyone can accept that God called Israel his son, His first born, His children but then go on to say we don't know how to look upon Him as our Father? He has been our Avi long before Jesus showed up.

Hi KO - I can only address comments with Scriptural references because it's too difficult to relay to each other our speculations. So far, what you've posted from the OT is in the reference as Father in a creator sense, i.e "Have we not all one father?.... Whether this is understood of Adam the first man, of whose blood all nations of the earth are made, and who in the same sense is the father of all living, as Eve was the mother of all living; or of Abraham the father of the Jewish people, of whom, as their father, they used to glory; or of Jacob, as Kimchi and Aben Ezra interpret it, whom the Jews used to call our father Jacob; or of God, who is the Father of all men by creation." J Gill

 

[chakham]

Father in a creator sense? From my point of view, that is a child's or a son's point of view that Creator is my Father. I don't believe for a moment I have to put my trust in a human sacrifice in order to know that my Creator and God, is also my redeemer and my Father. There is no Father but Yehovah, and there is no one besides Him, and there is none that brings help to my soul other than my Father. He is the source of my redemption and strength, and in His hand is power and He has the ability to extol and give strength to all.

Seriously, there are sometimes when it is best to ask rather than presume to know what is in the heart of another. This is one of those times.

 

[netchaplain]

Father in a creator sense? From a child's and son's point of view that is my Father.

Yes, in and through Christ by Their Holy Spirit, but not before Christ, as in the OT.

 

[Asyncritus]

Hi NC

What do you make of that tenderest of passages in Ps 103?

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children’s children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

 

[chakham]

Father in a creator sense? From a child's and son's point of view that is my Father.

Yes, in and through Christ by Their Holy Spirit, but not before Christ, as in the OT.

There's where I see a problem. Regardless of what John Gill, Mathew Henry or any other commentator says I can and do look at God as "Avi". And on top of that, all without having to believe in a human sacrifice. He calls me one of His children and told me to call Him Father.

 

[netchaplain]

Hi NC

What do you make of that tenderest of passages in Ps 103?

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children’s children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

Hi Asyncritus - Thanks for your reply. God's love for those who are His in the OT is the same as for those in the NT. His love is "unbounded" as the post states. What is not the same is the type of relationship believers now have as "sons of God," which is closer than just being a people of God. This is why the phrase "children of God" is not mentioned in the OT, prior to Christ bringing believers into a son-ship relationship; which is first mentioned by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 5:9 when He was revealing the Jews blessings to them.

 

[Asyncritus]

Not clear about what you mean by 'type of relationship'.

That passage talks about a Father pitying His children.

The Jews were wicked children, rebellious children, rejecting children, faithful children, and so on. All 'children'.

I agree that in the NT that relationship is amplified, and the drum beaten more frequently and loudly - but it is the same Father/child relationship of the OT.

I don't think you can have a major doctrine in the NT which doesn't exist in the OT - so the parental relationship of the NT must be prefigured by the parental relationship of the OT, or actually be in existence in the OT.

After all, 'Israel is my son, even my firstborn' God says in Ex 4.

Believers now belong to the 'church of the firstborn' as it says in Hebrews 12. 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

 

[netchaplain]

Not clear about what you mean by 'type of relationship'.

I don't think you can have a major doctrine in the NT which doesn't exist in the OT - so the parental relationship of the NT must be prefigured by the parental relationship of the OT, or actually be in existence in the OT.

After all, 'Israel is my son, even my firstborn' God says in Ex 4.

Hi Asyncritus - I like what you replied but I believe Exodus 4:22 is a hyperbolic expression that the Jews are as dear to Him as a man's firstborn is, or as His only son because they were the first-chosen people from among all peoples to begin revealing Himself to the world.

That which produces the actual Father-son relationship with God comes only by rebirth through Christianity (Christian Jew first, then Gentile), which was always foreshadowed, similar as the Law was to Grace (Heb 10:1).

Not to refute but comment on your reply concerning "I don't think you can have a major doctrine in the NT which doesn't exist in the OT," I believe this is a major dispensational (time of dispensing) difference between OT and NT in the doctrine of son-ship with the Father.

His best to your Family!

 

[stovebolts]

The Jews were wicked children, rebellious children, rejecting children, faithful children, and so on. All 'children'.

And while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

We are all wicked, rebellious and reject the fullness of God's word. Nobody can live as Jesus did. Thanks be to God that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

You see, David was a Jew and he did wicked things and thought wicked thoughts, yet God said of him, "David is a man after my own heart", yet we wouldn't say that God has a wicked heart.

We can see many things in the OT, but nothing stands our more than the grace of God. In Exodus 4, God choose a people to call his son to represent him on this earth, because a Son represents his Father.

Without going into great detail, when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3:16, I'm sure Nicodemus took Son to mean Israel because what Jesus says in verses 16 and 17 was the mission of Israel as God's Son. It is only later that we see Jesus was speaking of himself. Regardless, it parallels the mission of Israel.

 

[jasoncran]

I want to address something about the YHWH if the YHWH is the father. then how could jesus have said no man has seen the father nor his shape. remember in any vision in the ot there was the name YHWH used . I used to believe the YHWH was the father but I do no longer. that said.

isreal was his firstborn in a relationship has he did birth that nation via Abraham.i can go into some of this.

1) Abraham was called out of the gentiles and separated from the goy to be man like God.Abraham was hospitable, he was also faithful and also willing to pray for the saints via intercession.see the account of Sodom and Gommorah
2) god gave the oracles to the Hebrew nation more so then the goyim before them, therefore because the Hebrews knew and understand what the Lord wanted they had to act and become like him. this is what the torah was intended to teach them. how to be more loving toward man
3) the Hebrews were then to do what jesus does know via the church, reconcile the goy to god via teaching them the torah. see deut 4 for this.

 

[gr8grace]

I want to address something about the YHWH if the YHWH is the father. then how could jesus have said no man has seen the father nor his shape. remember in any vision in the ot there was the name YHWH used . I used to believe the YHWH was the father but I do no longer. that said.

isreal was his firstborn in a relationship has he did birth that nation via Abraham.i can go into some of this.

1) Abraham was called out of the gentiles and separated from the goy to be man like God.Abraham was hospitable, he was also faithful and also willing to pray for the saints via intercession.see the account of Sodom and Gommorah
2) god gave the oracles to the Hebrew nation more so then the goyim before them, therefore because the Hebrews knew and understand what the Lord wanted they had to act and become like him. this is what the torah was intended to teach them. how to be more loving toward man
3) the Hebrews were then to do what jesus does know via the church, reconcile the goy to god via teaching them the torah. see deut 4 for this.

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." John 14:7

 

[netchaplain]

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." John 14:7

Hi Gr8Grace - Very applicable passage and this because Jesus "is the express image of His person" (Heb 1:3). Thanks for your reply and His best to your Family!

 

[JohnD]

I detect a discomfort in some of these posts with dispensational theology. But the point is the thread title Our God and Father.

I am thoroughly Trinitarian.

But the two flaws I could find in doctrines of Trinitarian theology is that

1. it built a lot of the doctrine on the say so of men (the so called apostles' creed for example is wrong in its first claim... which I will explain...)

2. it did not go far enough into biblical scrutiny of the Triune nature of the one God

To begin with, our God and Father (to be perfectly clinical) is Jesus Christ (preincarnate). He is not the Heavenly Father (who is our Father by adoption).

Since the preincarnate Jesus (God the Word) is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning... the Father of Adam is Jesus (preincarnate).

Luke 3:38 (KJV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


Colossians 1:13-16 (KJV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


John 1:1-3 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


These passages prove many things.

God the Word was the lone Creator in the beginning.

His name is YHVH (Isaiah 44:24 LORD = YHVH in Hebrew).

He is the Father of creation (which answers the questions raised about "everlasting Father" in Isaiah 9:6)

The Apostle's creed begins in error "I believe in God the Father Creator of Heaven and Earth..." It was God the Son who created all things created in the beginning not God the Father....

Hebrews 1:1-2 (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


The language here is misused by the cultists (JW's in particular) to make it sound as though the Father created the worlds with Jesus as a tool of his... {I scratch my head at that too} ...when one is desperate as JW's are who have the truth siding against them, you have to resort to all sorts of subterfuge. The language here simply states that the one in the Godhead who did all the creating was the Word (who became the Son in the incarnation).



This same chapter dispels the Eternal Son doctrine...


Hebrews 1:5 (KJV)
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


The underlined establishes a progression from what was not to what will be. And we look back on it as it came to be.


Jesus is A Father. He is not THE Father (or put this way, Jesus is not his own Father):


John 1:14 (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:


The Creator is the Father of what he creates. In this case the body of Jesus his Father created for him and John 1:14 says this is the only creation of God the Father.


We tend to trip over the limitations of human language. When teaching a study on the Trinity I use the following clinical basis:


God is three equal individuals


A. God the Authority (who we call the Heavenly Father who is always described as the ultimate authority and the one to whom all submit including God the Son and God the Holy Spirit).


B. God the Word (simple, the Bible already names him)


c. God the Author (2 Peter 1:20-21 says he authored the Bible and in that sense he is the Father of the Bible / inspiration of the prophets and revealing of Jesus Christ to the world)


All three are unique, all three are Spirit, all three are Holy, all three are Fathers... so you see how the uniformed trip over terms used to describe each and distinguish them at the same time.


The Bible also establishes the unique distinction of each for example, Jesus could not be the only begotten Son of the Father (John 1:14) if that same Father is the Father of Adam (Luke 3:38) or any of the other sons of God passages in Genesis 6 and in Job 1,2, and 38.


We are children of the Father of Jesus by adoption.



Romans 8:15 (KJV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Another aspect about the incarnation of Jesus is that he had to submit to his Father as his God.



Hebrews 10:5-7 (KJV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.


Matthew 27:46 (KJV)
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Revelation 3:12 (KJV)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

John 20:17 (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


In the incarnation he had to be like us in the he had to submit to a God who is not himself even though in his Spirit he is God the Word equal to God the Father (Philippians 2:5 / John 5:18).


Oh, and the name YHVH (LORD / Jehovah / Yahweh) is like a surname (last name)...



Matthew 28:19 (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


THE name of
THE Father and of
THE Son and of

THE Holy Spirit


YHVH


And Jesus' Hebrew name is YHVH Shua YHVH Saves (Yehoshua shortened to Yeshua in Greek Iesous in latin Jesous in ENlgish Jesus)


Another thing that trips people up sometimes is that each individual in the Godhead can and does speak for the Godhead in individual language.



I AM God there is no other...


Isaiah 43:10-11 (KJV)
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


It is a manner of speaking. The Supreme Chancellor in Star Wars said "I am the Senate!" Same manner of speaking.

 

[Brother Mike]

o begin with, our God and Father (to be perfectly clinical) is Jesus Christ (preincarnate). He is not the Heavenly Father (who is our Father by adoption).

Since the preincarnate Jesus (God the Word) is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning... the Father of Adam is Jesus (preincarnate).

This would not be Trinitarian. Your a modelist not trinitarian.

Another thing that trips people up sometimes is that each individual in the Godhead can and does speak for the Godhead in individual language.

The only language of "Godhead" is from two Greek words, translated that way and we are in the God head or God head bodily as part of those that rule and run things with the Lord Jesus. One reason I am not a Modelist, Oneness, Trinitarian, or into Symbolism.

Good OP though............. It sounds like Joel Osteen and candy gospel but it's good to read it again and affirm that we are Children of the one that made everything. Very good to read these things from time to time as I think we forget the basics of who daddy is.

I did not find any monotheism in the OP, so not sure where in the thread it went to support that position.

I really like the post, very encouraging. Would like to see more faith type things like this from Net.

Mike.

 

[netchaplain]

Since the preincarnate Jesus (God the Word) is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning... .

Hi JD - Thanks for the reply and the labor involved. I have the understanding that Christ has from eternity past been the Word of God or of the Father (John 1:1). He came in this world as such (John 1:14) and has finished as the same (Rev 19:13). I also believe that being Deity He cannot change as such, regardless of His actions and location.

Concerning creation I believe when any One of Them act, it is power of the Three because Deities, though being three individuals, always act as One, thus when They said "Let Us create," it was not just Christ, and it's Scripturally obvious He was the One They created through and thus it being a joint action, as in all They do.

Though we may maintain numerous concepts of Scripture in our own understanding (which may not necessarily be wrong), it's always most accurate when maintaining Biblical validation. Jesus said the Father is God and God is the Father (John 20:17).

This is why we see in Scripture the Son of God and of the Father; the Spirit of God and of the Father. The Son of God, the Spirit of God--but not the Father of God, because the Father is God. Scripture identifies Jesus as God and Father but this is in relation to Him being indwelt by "the fullness of the Godhead" (Col 2:9), e.g. everything seen and heard of the Son is the same as if it were the Father Himself (John 14:9).

The Son is not the Father and the Father is not the Son but they, along with Their Holy Spirit, are in one accord concerning everything (John 5:7). Prior to Christ's incarnation, "Ye have neither heard His (Father) voice at any time, nor seen His shape" (John 5:37), but His redemption mission involved revealing the Father and Himself (John 1:18).

Scripture continuously stresses the Father being God, for Jesus said of Him, "He is greater than all" (John 10:29) and we also read, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things (creation), and we by Him" (1 Cor 8:6). The most ominous phrase in Scripture is used by Paul, esp. at the beginning of his epistles, which is "God our Father."

To me the significance in my reply is in making the distinction between the Father and the Son and the mandate that both are to be equally worshiped and honored, for "All should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him" (John 5:23).

What one believes concerning the Trinity is not salvation-essential, so I consider what I've shared here just represents my concept of the Triunity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[netchaplain]

Would like to see more faith type things like this from Net.

Hi Mike and thanks for showing a concern for my posts.

God's blessings to your Family!