OUR HOME is the united states

[peace4all]

antitox, I agree that the bible preaches hat to gays.

but i also agree that the bible teaches acceptance and love.

thats why i dont agree with the bible as a whole


btw, if u want to run a christian country, move somewhere else. We have a constitution, for a reason.

I am betting you have never read the constitution nor have you looked into the history of it's writing or the people who designed it. While this nation was founded to allow people to worship any way they felt they should, it most definately was founded on Christian principles and dedicated to the God of the Judeo Christian ethic. I have no doubt that God will be kicked out of this country as it is rapidly happening before our eyes. But make no mistake, as this happens, this country will get worse and worse and will suffer judgment it is not prepared to face.

Yes, a majortiy of the people that FLED from europe, were persecuted for their religion. Because of that, when we set up our constitution, with many of our foundign fathers being atheists/agnostics, or not christian it still stayed mainly christian like.

However, almsot every religion in the world, has teh same rules, because its common sense. how did the native americans know that stealing was bad? how did they know that murder was bad? its human nature. You just used your god to justify it. CHristians at the time, couldnt believe that anyone else had these rules, solely because christianity is always right.

Just like when ppl said that the earth revolved around nothing.. stuff revolved around it.

WHile your at it. I just watched the news.

3 people were shot in the city of rochester, and a ton of food from the "green acre food for the homeless" was stolen.

ALl the suspects were black.

We all know that crime is bad, murder is bad, and thievery is bad. so what are u gonna do? kick out the blacks?

are u really that bad?

 

[Lyric's Dad]

antitox, I agree that the bible preaches hat to gays.

but i also agree that the bible teaches acceptance and love.

thats why i dont agree with the bible as a whole


btw, if u want to run a christian country, move somewhere else. We have a constitution, for a reason.

I am betting you have never read the constitution nor have you looked into the history of it's writing or the people who designed it. While this nation was founded to allow people to worship any way they felt they should, it most definately was founded on Christian principles and dedicated to the God of the Judeo Christian ethic. I have no doubt that God will be kicked out of this country as it is rapidly happening before our eyes. But make no mistake, as this happens, this country will get worse and worse and will suffer judgment it is not prepared to face.

Yes, a majortiy of the people that FLED from europe, were persecuted for their religion. Because of that, when we set up our constitution, with many of our foundign fathers being atheists/agnostics, or not christian it still stayed mainly christian like.

However, almsot every religion in the world, has teh same rules, because its common sense. how did the native americans know that stealing was bad? how did they know that murder was bad? its human nature. You just used your god to justify it. CHristians at the time, couldnt believe that anyone else had these rules, solely because christianity is always right.

Just like when ppl said that the earth revolved around nothing.. stuff revolved around it.

WHile your at it. I just watched the news.

3 people were shot in the city of rochester, and a ton of food from the "green acre food for the homeless" was stolen.

ALl the suspects were black.

We all know that crime is bad, murder is bad, and thievery is bad. so what are u gonna do? kick out the blacks?

are u really that bad?

Thank you for pointing out one of the wonders of God's creation. Every single one of us knows that certain things are wrong. Now, if we had just evolved then to say that there is an ultimate right and wrong would be asinine. But since there is a Creator, He has instilled in us a knowlege of right and wrong. Thanks peace.

 

[antitox]

Yes, a majortiy of the people that FLED from europe, were persecuted for their religion. Because of that, when we set up our constitution, with many of our foundign fathers being atheists/agnostics, or not christian it still stayed mainly christian like.

Yes, it stayed that way because that's what it was founded upon.

However, almsot every religion in the world, has teh same rules, because its common sense. how did the native americans know that stealing was bad? how did they know that murder was bad? its human nature. You just used your god to justify it. CHristians at the time, couldnt believe that anyone else had these rules, solely because christianity is always right.

God gave basic laws for people to honor so that they would see that His standard was much higher than what the people were accustomed to. In that day, barbarism was everywhere, and there were kingdoms that were very wicked and ruthless. Get your timelines in order if you intend to make earthly comparisons.
The world in general has become more civilized today, but evil is still making trouble all over.
And I don't have to justify anything. God has made a new covenant and you and Quath are totally unbalanced and unfamiliar with it. You are still trying to hang God over OT criteria that you don't understand in the first place and then missing the proper NT application of it.

Just like when ppl said that the earth revolved around nothing.. stuff revolved around it.

WHile your at it. I just watched the news.

3 people were shot in the city of rochester, and a ton of food from the "green acre food for the homeless" was stolen.

ALl the suspects were black.

We all know that crime is bad, murder is bad, and thievery is bad. so what are u gonna do? kick out the blacks?

are u really that bad?

Anything deduced by relativism can appear righteous. However, God is far above any standard you can imagine because:

(Prov 16:2) All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the spirit."

You cannot see God as pure; because you've never experienced His pure nature before; therefore you believe all your motives are pure and so you argue with those who believe in His standard.

(Prov 30:12) "There are those who are pure in their own eyes but are not cleansed of their filth."

 

[peace4all]

so your saying that the native americans, on fnorth america, with laws and peace (nto always ya they warred whatever) and basic morality, that had NO introduction to christianity, were barbarians now?

Solely because they did not live in the catholic/christian europe?

 

[bibleberean]

I am a native American. I was born here. :D

This is my country too...

"This land is your land this land is my land this land was made for you and me"

Did Woody Guthrie write that song or was it Rush Limbaugh? :o

Or is it none of the above?

 

[Tofuy]

are you sure you're not 5th generation imported? :D

i am. :

 

[antitox]

so your saying that the native americans, on fnorth america, with laws and peace (nto always ya they warred whatever) and basic morality, that had NO introduction to christianity, were barbarians now?

Solely because they did not live in the catholic/christian europe?

Instead of understanding any of what I just said with the basic premise that God's standard is higher than man's, you desperately search for any scenario that does not address what I just said. Therefore, the atheist conclusion:

"Doesn't matter what you say, I'm going to use relativism."

And that is used to discredit God and make man look right without hearing what I said. This is what you atheists do and you wonder why we get tired of it.

Now if you actually think about it at all, what I said was accurate and it was barbaric in that time, and God's standard is much higher than man's. Now YOU cannot understand that ; instead you try to search for some country or people that you do not have the facts on, and try to use them to derail the dialogue. Now it's time for the atheists to deal on a level playing field. Stop the derailment tactics and either admit I'm right or answer what I said.

 

[Tofuy]

level playing field.

there were no jails in northa america as people didn't require them. there were jails in europe and people objected to being thrown in them and thus moved to america. the apparent barbarism of the time, as reflected by jails, is not even and, as reflected by jails, simply didn't exist in north america. i'm not trying to attack semantics. if there are better words to use than barbarism, please restate what you said. otherwise, can you explain your possition on this barbarism which is apparently not present, as reflected by jails, in north america.


imo, i see jails as reflecting a cultures patterns and attitudes. who is jailed, why they are jailed, the lives those people lead when not jailed, all these things tells us about the dominant parent culture. north america had no jails and all of it's nations engaged in erratic retalitory behavoir. europe was ruled by the domination of food, both physical food and spiritual food, the patern of aggricultural rule. when these two cultural paterns overlap and conflict occurs, aggricultural rule has historicaly won every occurance. i think it wins through barbarism.

 

[antitox]

level playing field.

there were no jails in northa america as people didn't require them. there were jails in europe and people objected to being thrown in them and thus moved to america. the apparent barbarism of the time, as reflected by jails, is not even and, as reflected by jails, simply didn't exist in north america. i'm not trying to attack semantics. if there are better words to use than barbarism, please restate what you said. otherwise, can you explain your possition on this barbarism which is apparently not present, as reflected by jails, in north america.


imo, i see jails as reflecting a cultures patterns and attitudes. who is jailed, why they are jailed, the lives those people lead when not jailed, all these things tells us about the dominant parent culture. north america had no jails and all of it's nations engaged in erratic retalitory behavoir. europe was ruled by the domination of food, both physical food and spiritual food, the patern of aggricultural rule. when these two cultural paterns overlap and conflict occurs, aggricultural rule has historicaly won every occurance. i think it wins through barbarism.

What's your point?

 

[Shellfish]

Just a couple points that I think need to be clarified;
1) The bible doesn't teach hate for homosexuals, it teaches disgust for abhorrent behavior which is difined by God as sin in the bible.
2) The bible is the Word of God and is able to make us wise unto salvation. The Godly principles in the bible stand on their own, we don't have to accept them for them to be concrete principles.
3) Homosexuality is wrong and God will not bless those that engage in it or those that tolerate it as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. All the examples in the bible point to the fact that God punishes countries and societies that allow/encourage homosexuality.

Like Spirit 1st, I am concerned for my country and my fellow americans.

In Christ

 

[Relic]

"...All the examples in the bible point to the fact that God punishes countries and societies that allow/encourage homosexuality. ..."

Shellfish, you are correct in pointing that out. But we must never deny the whole truth of the fixed laws of God. Encouraging transgression of God's fixed laws only says, that anyone who does so is looking for trouble. It's like setting yourself on fire and expecting to not get burned. God only protect the one who is in line with the order of His fixed laws, not the one who is out of line. The sinner needs to come to a place in which they are willing to stop denying the truth of the effects of the transgressions they are into. Just because the consequences have n't shown up in their lives "YET", they think they are righteous in their own sense of living. They are living in spite of the truth of God's fixed laws of order. They are in essence, living in denial of what is to come.

God punishes ALL sin no matter where, United States or on the moon, and no matter who has committed the act, be it a person rich or poor, no matter what race or creed, or sexualy oriented type they are... No one, not one individual can go against what is GOD'S definition of transgression/sin. If His fixed laws are transgressed it should go without saying what happens! But some people don't put two and two together. Nor do they see that What God made Fixed cannot be changed.

Consequences of action. There is a fixed law, in God's creation, of all things, that cannot be broken. When the sinner comes to realize this truth, then they are faced with a decision.... to be humbled by the consequences and be corrected, or to ignore it. Either way, the consequences still remain.

There is consequence to ever action, be the action good or not, the consequences are in line with the action and will be made manifest.

Thoughts are temptations (seeds). The action taken on the thought is what brings on the manifestation. When we are IN Accordance to the HOLY (Righteous) act or thought, that is the "good" fruit which is going to be produced, if it is tended too. Sames goes for the unrighteous incident.

God's Word is truth. You can't deny the truth of consequences.

Face to face.... either now or later. We all have to come face to face with Truth, and face all consequences. There is "reward" for just behavior, and there is the "punishment" for the unjust . Reward and punishment.... They are both consequences. It's up to us to face the truth of God's fixed laws of order that no man can change or deny for very long. We can't run from it, we can't hide from it. We can't stop the consequences. Stall as you will, but we can't stop the inevitable having to face God's HOLY TRUTH and the consequences of being with or without sin. Each has it's final outcome.

When sodomites, fornicator, or anyone that is in any kind of transgression of God's fixed laws "finally, in the end of it all", comes to see the truth.... Will they then dare say God is wrong? NO! They get on their knees and cry HELP ME GOD! HELP ME!


.

 

[SputnikBoy]

"...All the examples in the bible point to the fact that God punishes countries and societies that allow/encourage homosexuality. ..."

Sputnik: While I realize that Relic has already addressed the above comment by Shellfish, I can't believe that God would have a special ax to grind with homosexuals that he doesn't with the rest of we sinners. We're told that, "There is no one that is righteous, not even one (Romans 3:10)." And yet Christians single out homosexuality as 'worse' than other sins, and often with such venom. And they do so as if REALLY believing that God will overlook their own personal agendas for doing so. And, I would wager that their own personal agendas have little or nothing to do with the Bible.

I personally find the homosexual issue to be one of the most overblown Christian preoccupations of today. Christians have become obsessed by it. Adultery and general sexual immorality is rampant in our society. Does this include any professed Christians, I wonder? Hmmm ... And yet forum threads that condemn these issues with as much venom are conspicuous by their absence. I don't wonder that nonChristians love to yell out the catch-cry, "Hypocrite!", at every opportunity.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God because of SIN ...period! If homosexuality were to disappear from our society, God would STILL have ample cause to destroy countries and societies that encourage SIN. And, I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but that's YOUR country and MY country! Again ...there is none that is righteous, NO NOT ONE! That may come as a shock to some.

 

[peace4all]

3) Homosexuality is wrong and God will not bless those that engage in it or those that tolerate it as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. All the examples in the bible point to the fact that God punishes countries and societies that allow/encourage homosexuality.

thats why there is an ever forgiving all loving god. right? to punish people?

Do you know why I am an atheist? I read the bible. It scared me. one hand was "this cool guy cured the blind, and ya, its awesome"

the other hand is "but these people tried to work together so BAM they are scattered. These other peopel didnt agree with god so burn them! these kids, well, their dads commited sins, KILL THEM TOO! mUAHAH! KILL!"

 

[antitox]

thats why there is an ever forgiving all loving god. right? to punish people?

God is not the kind of person who loves without having boundaries. You atheists think that no one should have absolutes or limits to what they permit or allow. Your claim results in "anything goes" and is as dysfunctional and baseless as anarchy. What you want us to promote is some "wet noodle" god.

Do you know why I am an atheist? I read the bible. It scared me. one hand was "this cool guy cured the blind, and ya, its awesome"

the other hand is "but these people tried to work together so BAM they are scattered. These other peopel didnt agree with god so burn them! these kids, well, their dads commited sins, KILL THEM TOO! mUAHAH! KILL!"

You have decided that God is not credible enough to be God. You have decided that you need to come on a Christian board and tell us we have no grounds for worshipping God. You are in the wrong, and you do not have enough biblical understanding to even converse with Christians on an intelligent spiritual level; which is why you make these uninformed and ignorant claims about the bible.

 

[peace4all]

wait, i dont understand. god is supposed to be a loving caring person. If he knows all, see's all, and is infinitely understanding,t hen does he have boundries?


And are you denying that the bible/god promoted the murder of millions of people/children?

 

[antitox]

wait, i dont understand. god is supposed to be a loving caring person. If he knows all, see's all, and is infinitely understanding,t hen does he have boundries?

So, by your definition, to love someone means there cannot be any boundaries? Why don't you tell parents that to their faces?
In God's case, it's eternal. It's life at its very essence, whereas, you think He should be a liberal who believes that everything can be rehabilitated. Even though they choose to reject the eternal choice to be with Him. That's what you can't fathom. :roll:

And are you denying that the bible/god promoted the murder of millions of people/children?

Absolutely not. He's God, not you. And you will never convict Him in any court.

Yes, I can see this one going on, and on, and on, because just like Quath, peace4all just isn't going to allow anything to be justified from the divine position that God holds because it cannot fit the atheist/liberal grid.

 

[SputnikBoy]

thats why there is an ever forgiving all loving god. right? to punish people?

God is not the kind of person who loves without having boundaries. You atheists think that no one should have absolutes or limits to what they permit or allow. Your claim results in "anything goes" and is as dysfunctional and baseless as anarchy. What you want us to promote is some "wet noodle" god.

Do you know why I am an atheist? I read the bible. It scared me. one hand was "this cool guy cured the blind, and ya, its awesome"

the other hand is "but these people tried to work together so BAM they are scattered. These other peopel didnt agree with god so burn them! these kids, well, their dads commited sins, KILL THEM TOO! mUAHAH! KILL!"

You have decided that God is not credible enough to be God. You have decided that you need to come on a Christian board and tell us we have no grounds for worshipping God. You are in the wrong, and you do not have enough biblical understanding to even converse with Christians on an intelligent spiritual level; which is why you make these uninformed and ignorant claims about the bible.

Sputnik: There are any number of 'discrepencies' in the Bible and I can't blame people for questioning these. I have, and still do, question our seemingly 'ambivalent God'. I thought I knew him several years ago but I'm not so sure any more. Jesus, on the other hand, is someone that I don't have a problem with. I've wondered at times how the two (Jesus and God) can possibly be related.

Those of us who feel that we DO have 'enough biblical understanding to converse with Christians on an intelligent spiritual level' should perhaps realize that we in fact DON'T. If we did then we wouldn't be dismissing posts such as those by peace4all with such intolerance. The posts of peace4all indicate that this is where he is at in regard to his understanding of the scriptures. The more I become involved in discussions such as those on this forum, the more I realize how much ALL of us don't know.

 

[antitox]

Sputnik: There are any number of 'discrepencies' in the Bible and I can't blame people for questioning these. I have, and still do, question our seemingly 'ambivalent God'. I thought I knew him several years ago but I'm not so sure any more. Jesus, on the other hand, is someone that I don't have a problem with. I've wondered at times how the two (Jesus and God) can possibly be related.

Will you join hands with the atheists? If you have such a conflict with God, that is not good. Most people do not look at the bible as a whole and the "why" of it as well. They simply question God.
God acts in covenant, and is very serious about keeping His end of it and expects us to as well. He's holy, and there's no way they will take that into consideration even in light of the covenant.
It is sad that you have that problem with Him.

Those of us who feel that we DO have 'enough biblical understanding to converse with Christians on an intelligent spiritual level' should perhaps realize that we in fact DON'T. If we did then we wouldn't be dismissing posts such as those by peace4all with such intolerance.

Well, Sput, go ahead and join hands. If you look at all the posts by peace and quath (over a long period), and still feel that they are helping the board, and being gracious to God and His people, go ahead. If you think they can hear what we say to them, think again. You probably have no beef with anything they say based upon your statement above and your tolerance policy.

The posts of peace4all indicate that this is where he is at in regard to his understanding of the scriptures.

Yes, and what atheist isn't? Do they really want the truth or are they just here to bash? You come to your own conclusion, but don't speak for me.

The more I become involved in discussions such as those on this forum, the more I realize how much ALL of us don't know.

Who shouldn't be aware of what they don't know? But I'm not going to dismiss what I do know based on what I don't. Duh.