Our male/female roles in this lifetime.

[whirlwind]

A word of warning....this thread is not for those not willing to see the spiritual meaning of Scripture.

• Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the People shall not be cut off from the city.

The city of Jerusalem is symbolic of His city of believers, all of us. God gathers all nations (and they are the first beast, the world wide system) against us and...we are taken. Half of us shall go into captivity to deception. :o (They/We) (are/will) believe Satan's lies and fall into apostasy. The other half, "the residue of the People," will be experiencing the same tribulation for, they/we "shall not be cut off from the city." Realize that this "city of Jerusalem" is everywhere...just as the great city Babylon is everywhere.

The question this thread addresses concerns women/wives as opposed to men. For instance, in the above verse why will just "the women" be ravished? What of the men?

• 11 Timothy 3:1-2 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy.....
  
  3:5-7 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power therof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It appears to be "the men" described above, those we should turn from, are those that will lead the "silly women" into captivity and once captive they are "ravished," spiritually ravished. I see the "silly women" as both male and female. We, whether male or female in this flesh life, are of both. We are one. As the souls that are the wife and bride of Christ are both male and female...so are the "silly women" and "the men" in those verses.

When first seeing who the "silly women" are, for I didn't see that before this morning, I thought...oh my, try to teach this and watch what happens! For too long we have been taught women should be silent, women should ask their husbands, women shouldn't teach, etc. and now I'm being shown that isn't quite the way it is.

So, let's see who the "silly women" are.

 

[whirlwind]

Let's begin at the beginning. Where does the woman come from?

• Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." (24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

As men and women have the same number of ribs consider that the "rib," which is described as "curve," could be the helix curve, the DNA of Adam to form Eve...truly one flesh. Also, where Jesus tells us, "He Which made them at the beginning made them male and female," [Matthew 19:3] could be telling us....we ARE both male and female. :yes

In the Genesis narration we see that it was both Adam and Eve that "did eat."

• 
  Genesis 3:6-7 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Yet, Paul writes.....

• 11 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Did he not also beguile Adam? Did Paul, who certainly knows Scripture, leave Adam out of the equation? Is Paul saying that Adam wasn't misled and willingly took part in this or...is Paul saying that the "silly woman" part of the one unit is spiritually beguiled, led captive and ravished as was Eve? Or...is Paul just a mysogynist? :gah

Of Paul, Peter writes.....

• 2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[jasoncran]

adam was willing to sin knowing that was wrong to do it. He knew what the Lord said, Paul is inspired to say that. I believe that word of the lord is innerrant.

jason

 

[whirlwind]

So what does God tell us through Paul when he writes, or what does Paul himself tell us for Paul does stipulate...the word "I" in the begining chapters.

• 1 Timothy 2:12-15 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve; And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression: Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There Paul clearly wrote...Adam was not deceived! He wasn't deceived and yet he ate of the fruit. The womanly, (Eve) part of us, is the part that is deceived so it should not teach the man child part of us nor have authority over our man child part. When we (male or female) experience childbearing...that of our man child, we are saved! The woman is gone the man child is born, IF we continue following God.

• 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
  
  11:8-11 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

Looking past the surface teaching...what is Paul saying? The man part of us, the "man child" part of us, is not of the woman part of us. The woman was created for the man child, to give birth to the man child in us. The woman part of us should have "power on her head because of the angels." As "the head of the woman is the man"...the man child part of her and that head, the man child, is to have power. That power is the One that is the head of the man child....Christ Himself.

When the power of Christ is in us then the "silly woman" and "men to be turned from," are gone....

• Galatians 3:27-28 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male (and) female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This realization gives new meaning to the 144,000.....

• Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

They are those that were either male or female in this flesh life but all became the man child and are no longer "defiled" with women. At another level the "women" is symbolic of false doctrine. I believe both are correct.

How does one become a virgin and "not defiled with" the woman part of oneself?

• Matthew 19:11-12 But He said unto them, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Again, looking past the surface meaning....Those that are the man child, those that can receive this saying, were either born from their mother's womb as a man child, were made so through the teachings of the Holy Spirit through man, or...are those that have studied on their own and dedicated their lives to God. They all are now virgins in that their "silly woman," their "Eve" part, that can be deceived, is gone...they are virgins.

 

[whirlwind]

adam was willing to sin knowing that was wrong to do it. He knew what the Lord said, Paul is inspired to say that. I believe that word of the lord is innerrant.

jason

I agree Jason.