Our thoughts or God's thoughts?

Bruce.Leiter

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Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What is more important, to engage our thinking in trying to understand and interpret the Bible, or what? What are the principles of good interpretation?
 
Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What is more important, to engage our thinking in trying to understand and interpret the Bible, or what? What are the principles of good interpretation?
 
Knowing things about ("of") God is not at all the same as knowing God personally in a loving relationship. The latter meaning is the one the Bible uses for knowing God, because the word "know" for believers' relationship with God has that meaning.
 
Knowing things about ("of") God is not at all the same as knowing God personally in a loving relationship. The latter meaning is the one the Bible uses for knowing God, because the word "know" for believers' relationship with God has that meaning.
Yes, I agree. First, we need to know the truth about Yahweh and His purpose. Then we have to understand Him or have a revelation of Our Creator.
 
Yes, I agree. First, we need to know the truth about Yahweh and His purpose. Then we have to understand Him or have a revelation of Our Creator.
As Paul says in Romans 1, we all have the revelation of our Creator every day we are alive, live2blieve. It's humans' rejection of our great, all-powerful Creator that makes us all guilty before him as our just Judge, so that we are without any excuse:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
 
As Paul says in Romans 1, we all have the revelation of our Creator every day we are alive, live2blieve. It's humans' rejection of our great, all-powerful Creator that makes us all guilty before him as our just Judge, so that we are without any excuse:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
I agree that a man has no excuse not to know that the Creator exists, and that He has power. However, Spiritual revelation can be given only by the Creator through the Holy Spirit:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God
. (2 Cor 2:9-11).
 
Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What is more important, to engage our thinking in trying to understand and interpret the Bible, or what? What are the principles of good interpretation?
I think there are many reasons why people need to "interpret" things in the Bible. I don't pretend to know them all. But there is one surefire way to understand the Bible correctly. If we ask the Lord to clarify the meaning of a particular verse or passage and trust what He tells us, then we will know what He wants us to know about it.

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. (Jas 1:5–8)​
 
I agree that a man has no excuse not to know that the Creator exists, and that He has power. However, Spiritual revelation can be given only by the Creator through the Holy Spirit:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God
. (2 Cor 2:9-11).
What you say is true, live2blieve, but the context of Romans 1:18-20 is Paul's contention that God, our just Judge, gives all humans his right guilty verdict, because they have rejected their Creator and Rescuer (1:18--3:21). That's why we're without excuse.
 
Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What is more important, to engage our thinking in trying to understand and interpret the Bible, or what? What are the principles of good interpretation?

Hello again, Bruce Leiter.

I would agree with Post #7. The primary principle behind good interpretation is asking the Holy Spirit Himself to reveal the meaning of scripture to us.

If I may, what was the motivation behind creating this thread? You appear to be wanting to distinguish between two things here involved in interpreting the word. I'm just not sure which two.

Blessings,
Hidden
 
I think there are many reasons why people need to "interpret" things in the Bible. I don't pretend to know them all. But there is one surefire way to understand the Bible correctly. If we ask the Lord to clarify the meaning of a particular verse or passage and trust what He tells us, then we will know what He wants us to know about it.

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. (Jas 1:5–8)​
Okay, NewLifeInChrist, what is wisdom according to the Bible's definition? I'll answer the question: It is the ability that God gives us to apply God's Word to daily life. That's what God gave Solomon with the background of the laws that God gave to Israel.

And God's wisdom gives us the ability to interpret any single verse in the light of the whole Word of God.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
 
Hello again, Bruce Leiter.

I would agree with Post #7. The primary principle behind good interpretation is asking the Holy Spirit Himself to reveal the meaning of scripture to us.

If I may, what was the motivation behind creating this thread? You appear to be wanting to distinguish between two things here involved in interpreting the word. I'm just not sure which two.

Blessings,
Hidden
Hidden In Him, yes, asking the Holy Spirit for his guidance is a biblical given in examining Scripture as in all of life. I'm interested in people's basis for looking at the Bible to get the correct interpretation without assuming that we have all the answers.
 
Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What is more important, to engage our thinking in trying to understand and interpret the Bible, or what? What are the principles of good interpretation?
I don't believe we're supposed to INTERPRET the bible.
I believe we're to take the bible at its plain, simple words.
No one was more plain than when Jesus taught something.

You posted in the OP:

Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


It means exactly what it states:

1. Seek God.
2. We must leave our wickedness behind and go to God - even RETURN to God if we've forsaken HIM.
3. God will always pardon us.
4. God has His own rules that we are to follow...not what we THINK God wants.
5. Of course, God is higher than man in every way.

We could add to the above, but basically that is what it states.

We are warned not to add to scripture....
and yet this is done all the time.
 
Hidden In Him, yes, asking the Holy Spirit for his guidance is a biblical given in examining Scripture as in all of life. I'm interested in people's basis for looking at the Bible to get the correct interpretation without assuming that we have all the answers.

I see.

Yes, in my studies, there have been a number of places where I discovered that the standard, accepted interpretation was not actually correct, IMO, but it came by letting the Holy Spirit teach me and reveal things rather than simply reading a commentary or a Bible study and letting someone else do the interpreting for me.

If that's the kind of thing you are driving at (if you are) then I agree.
 
What you say is true, live2blieve, but the context of Romans 1:18-20 is Paul's contention that God, our just Judge, gives all humans his right guilty verdict, because they have rejected their Creator and Rescuer (1:18--3:21). That's why we're without excuse.
I agree with that. Romans 1:19,20 also show that we can know the Creator and the way we can understand Him: through the examples.
 
Okay, NewLifeInChrist, what is wisdom according to the Bible's definition? I'll answer the question: It is the ability that God gives us to apply God's Word to daily life. That's what God gave Solomon with the background of the laws that God gave to Israel.

And God's wisdom gives us the ability to interpret any single verse in the light of the whole Word of God.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
According to Louw-Nida, "wisdom" in the NT can refer to "the capacity to understand" or it can refer to "the content of what is known by those regarded as wise":

32.32 σοφίαa, ας f: the capacity to understand and, as a result, to act wisely—‘to be prudent, wisdom.’ ἐν σοφίᾳ περιπατεῖτε πρὸς τοὺς ἔξω ‘act with wisdom toward those who are not believers’ Col 4:5.
32.37 σοφίαb, ας f: the content of what is known by those regarded as wise—‘wisdom, insight, understanding.’ ἐπαιδεύθη Μωϋσῆς ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ Αἰγυπτίων ‘Moses learned all the wisdom of the Egyptians’ Ac 7:22; σοφίαν δὲ λαλοῦμεν ἐν τοῖς τελείοις ‘yet, we have wisdom to tell those who are spiritually mature’ 1 Cor 2:6.​

(Louw-Nida Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament, Vol. 1, p. 383-384)​

In regard to the wisdom which is from above (James 3:17), which the Holy Spirit teaches (1 Cor 2:13), people without the Spirit of God in them do not have "the capacity to understand" (1 Cor 2:14). And everyone in whom the Spirit lives does have "the capacity to understand" because God gave us His Spirit so that we might be able to comprehend the things otherwise unknowable (1 Cor 2:12).

So, my interpretation of "wisdom" in James 1:5-8 is not about asking for the capacity to know wisdom (since we all aready have that capacity), it is about asking for a particular nugget of wisdom which we are lacking.

Note: This is an example of my approach to interpretation of Scripture. When I'm faced with a challenge I do not have a clear answer for, and if I take my concern to God to light the path He wants me to take, then I find a clear solution for the problem if I follow His guidance.
 
The principle of good understanding of scripture is to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to interpret that of which has already been written.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 
According to Louw-Nida, "wisdom" in the NT can refer to "the capacity to understand" or it can refer to "the content of what is known by those regarded as wise":

32.32 σοφίαa, ας f: the capacity to understand and, as a result, to act wisely—‘to be prudent, wisdom.’ ἐν σοφίᾳ περιπατεῖτε πρὸς τοὺς ἔξω ‘act with wisdom toward those who are not believers’ Col 4:5.​
32.37 σοφίαb, ας f: the content of what is known by those regarded as wise—‘wisdom, insight, understanding.’ ἐπαιδεύθη Μωϋσῆς ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ Αἰγυπτίων ‘Moses learned all the wisdom of the Egyptians’ Ac 7:22; σοφίαν δὲ λαλοῦμεν ἐν τοῖς τελείοις ‘yet, we have wisdom to tell those who are spiritually mature’ 1 Cor 2:6.​

(Louw-Nida Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament, Vol. 1, p. 383-384)​

In regard to the wisdom which is from above (James 3:17), which the Holy Spirit teaches (1 Cor 2:13), people without the Spirit of God in them do not have "the capacity to understand" (1 Cor 2:14). And everyone in whom the Spirit lives does have "the capacity to understand" because God gave us His Spirit so that we might be able to comprehend the things otherwise unknowable (1 Cor 2:12).

So, my interpretation of "wisdom" in James 1:5-8 is not about asking for the capacity to know wisdom (since we all aready have that capacity), it is about asking for a particular nugget of wisdom which we are lacking.

Note: This is an example of my approach to interpretation of Scripture. When I'm faced with a challenge I do not have a clear answer for, and if I take my concern to God to light the path He wants me to take, then I find a clear solution for the problem if I follow His guidance.
NewLifeInChrist, a good definition of "wisdom" in the Bible follows:

"In the Bible, wisdom is defined as the practical application of knowledge and understanding in alignment with God's will and truth. It is often described as the ability to discern and act rightly in specific situations, rooted in a reverent fear of the Lord. The Bible emphasizes that true wisdom comes from God and is sought through humility, obedience, and a relationship with Him.

"Wisdom is also personified in the Bible, particularly in the Book of Proverbs, where it is depicted as a woman offering guidance and insight to those who seek her. Additionally, the New Testament identifies Jesus Christ as the embodiment of divine wisdom, stating that 'Christ is the wisdom of God.'

"The Hebrew word for wisdom, chokhmah, encompasses practical skill, discernment, and moral understanding, while the Greek word sophia refers to deep spiritual insight and knowledge. The Bible teaches that wisdom is not merely intellectual knowledge but involves righteous action and the ability to apply God's truth in daily life.

"In summary, biblical wisdom is characterized by its origin in God, its practical application in life, and its connection to moral and spiritual discernment."

One might add James 3:13-18, where James describes the personal qualities that go along with true wisdom:

Jas 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.
Jas 3:14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth.
Jas 3:15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
Jas 3:16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.
Jas 3:18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
 
Isa 55:6 “Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;
Isa 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What is more important, to engage our thinking in trying to understand and interpret the Bible, or what?
It's all important. We are to use our God-given reasoning, with the help of the Holy Spirit, as we study, using lexicons and dictionaries as needed. Then when we think we have understood, we must compare with the conclusions of commentaries and other theological and scholarly works and books to see how others have come to understand the verse or passage in question. This can show us where we might have gone wrong and deepen our understanding.

One of the issues is that to read the Bible is to interpret it. We automatically interpret what we read through what we've already read, what we've already been taught, and even through personal experiences--"For now we see in a mirror dimly . . . Now I know in part" (1 Cor. 13:12, ESV). It cannot be otherwise. It's a matter of whether or not we want to be good interpreters. By practicing, we can become much better.

What are the principles of good interpretation?
There are many. First, and this actually includes a number of separate rules, understand what the author's intent was. This relies on things such as the historical, cultural, literary, and grammatical context, each of which can be broken down into further rules. What the author states, must have been understood by the original readers or hearers. Second, the plain, obvious meaning is the most likely meaning. Third, Scripture interprets Scripture, and clear passages interpret less clear ones.

Those are in no particular order nor is it comprehensive.
 
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