Pacifist or Not- Poll

Oats · Nov 13, 2010

Do you feel when Jesus said turn the other cheek he meant to avoid fighting at all cost?

Do you think fighting can be necessary?

I believe Jesus didn't want us to engage in coflicts of the violent or hurtful sort at all.

I don't think it's ever necessary...

What do you think?

jasoncran · Nov 13, 2010

can you give an example.

if you mean fist fights then i will say that unless, life, limb is on the line i wont bother.

of course if the guy throws the punch first then i will defend myself with the amount of force to stop that.

i dont fight for women, or honor.

Oats · Nov 13, 2010

jasoncran said:
can you give an example.

if you mean fist fights then i will say that unless, life, limb is on the line i wont bother.

of course if the guy throws the punch first then i will defend myself with the amount of force to stop that.

i dont fight for women, or honor.

Any circumstances...at all

jasoncran · Nov 13, 2010

why do you ask?

and i would intervene if need be for others but that is only if i can do so safely.

if the attacker has a knife if someone else needs help, and i will call the cops first and try to stop that if i can.

Oats · Nov 13, 2010

jasoncran said:
why do you ask?

and i would intervene if need be for others but that is only if i can do so safely.

if the attacker has a knife if someone else needs help, and i will call the cops first and try to stop that if i can.

can you trash this thread?

i don't want to start a flame war

jasoncran · Nov 13, 2010

Oats said:
can you trash this thread?

i don't want to start a flame war

you have heart,i dont see that this question is a bad one, quite revalant

but we could ask that the posters avoid the military defense.

Oats · Nov 13, 2010

jasoncran said:
you have heart,i dont see that this question is a bad one, quite revalant

but we could ask that the posters avoid the military defense.

i'll spice up the op....

Lewis · Nov 13, 2010

About almost 30 years ago, my girlfriend and I were walking through a playground one night, and a guy pops up out of nowhere, with a knife he threatens me, and then tells me that he is going to take Christine with him. So I told her to run, and as she did so I was looking around on the ground for something to take his head off with, I could not find anything, so I ended up running also. Now if I could have found something or had something on me, it would have been on. Another time same girl, a friend of ours named Joe, who had a history of rapes tried to rape Christine, and Christine's sister and I took turns beating him with a baseball bat. I think I did 3 days or a week in the slammer for that one. Joe did not show up in court so they threw it out. I also had to break a dudes jaw onetime. So yes I would say sometimes

jasoncran · Nov 13, 2010

Lewis W said:
About almost 30 years ago, my girlfriend and I were walking through a playground one night, and a guy pops up out of nowhere, with a knife he threatens me, and then tells me that he is going to take Christine with him. So I told her to run, and as she did so I was looking around on the ground for something to take his head off with, I could not find anything, so I ended up running also. Now if I could have found something or had something on me, it would have been on. Another time same girl, a friend of ours named Joe, who had a history of rapes tried to rape Christine, and Christine's sister and I took turns beating him with a baseball bat. I think I did 3 days or a week in the slammer for that one. Joe did not show up in court so they threw it out. I also had to break a dudes jaw onetime. So yes I would say sometimes

that shouldnt even made it too court.

theLords · Nov 13, 2010

Oats said:
Do you feel when Jesus said turn the other cheek he meant to avoid fighting at all cost?

Do you think fighting can be necessary?

I believe Jesus didn't want us to engage in coflicts of the violent or hurtful sort at all.

I don't think it's ever necessary...

What do you think?

Jesus, was not a push over!

John 18:23
"If I said something wrong," Jesus replied, "testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me?"

This shows that in each situation of violence we come up against we must be quick to ask the Holy Spirit what to do. Sometimes the Lord will tell us to stay quiet during a verbal lashing, other times the Lord will give us the words to speak.

Pacifism doesn't seem to be supported Biblically, but seems to be more of a worldly concept...

Just my :twocents

pjt · Nov 13, 2010

Oats said:
Do you feel when Jesus said turn the other cheek he meant to avoid fighting at all cost?

Do you think fighting can be necessary?

I believe Jesus didn't want us to engage in coflicts of the violent or hurtful sort at all.

I don't think it's ever necessary...

What do you think?

Of course, fighting is necessary at times. All we have to do is read the Bible and see that. I mean Jesus is going to lead in the final battle. He is no pacifist. He stands up to evil and so must we. When it comes to good vs. evil, good must not cower.

Nick · Nov 13, 2010

Sometimes.

I don't like the way America basically sets up most of our major conflicts. The problem with terrorists in Afgahnistan was because America helped them to fight off the Soviet Union :screwloose

. But lets not get into that.

My point is that in terms of war, I see a time to fight, mostly for defense, I don't see much reason to be the initial aggressor. Depends on the circumstances though.

In the context of being attacked on the street, or in my home etc, if possible I will fight back and defend myself. I don't see why I should let myself get bashed. Having said that, I don't think we should be bashing the other guy to a pulp.

Lewis · Nov 13, 2010

jasoncran said:
that shouldnt even made it too court.

They locked her sister up too. Threw us in the police wagon together.

Oats · Nov 14, 2010

Jesus was a pacifist
1.pacifist - someone opposed to violence as a means of settling disputes

-Why do people bend the scriptures to say what they want?

If a passage is an analogy people take it word for word without considering it...

It's wrong!!

If we as Christian try to find excuse for avenge ourselves what was the point of Jesus' death

If no one can refute pacifism biblically like I can prove it, then they are creating their own God.

pjt · Nov 14, 2010

Oats said:
Jesus was a pacifist
1.pacifist - someone opposed to violence as a means of settling disputes

-Why do people bend the scriptures to say what they want?

If a passage is an analogy people take it word for word without considering it...

It's wrong!!

If we as Christian try to find excuse for avenge ourselves what was the point of Jesus' death

If no one can refute pacifism biblically like I can prove it, then they are creating their own God.

How do you explain the final battle? Where is anyone bending scriptures? Look in the Old Testament where God sent people into battle. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change. I don`t think anyone here is looking for an excuse to "avenge ourselves". I think Christians generally agree that the only time fighting should occur is as a means of self defense and that does not mean over petty things. If someone shoves, the other person can still walk away. They don`t have to fight. If someone calls another a hateful name, they can just walk away. They don`t have to break out into a fight. If someone throws a rock and breaks your window, you don`t have to chase them down and beat them up. But what if a strong adult grabs your small defenseless child? Do you sit there and watch them take your child away? Or do you run and try to get your child back and if that means having to hit them to make them let go of your child, would you not do it? If someone pulled out a knife and said they were going to kill you, would you stand there and let them stab you or would you try to fight for your life? If you do not believe in fighting at all, I see nothing wrong with that but I think in certain circumstances, God allows fighting and He wants us to stand up for the good.

Oats · Nov 14, 2010

pjt said:
How do you explain the final battle? Where is anyone bending scriptures? Look in the Old Testament where God sent people into battle. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change. I don`t think anyone here is looking for an excuse to "avenge ourselves". I think Christians generally agree that the only time fighting should occur is as a means of self defense and that does not mean over petty things. If someone shoves, the other person can still walk away. They don`t have to fight. If someone calls another a hateful name, they can just walk away. They don`t have to break out into a fight. If someone throws a rock and breaks your window, you don`t have to chase them down and beat them up. But what if a strong adult grabs your small defenseless child? Do you sit there and watch them take your child away? Or do you run and try to get your child back and if that means having to hit them to make them let go of your child, would you not do it? If someone pulled out a knife and said they were going to kill you, would you stand there and let them stab you or would you try to fight for your life? If you do not believe in fighting at all, I see nothing wrong with that but I think in certain circumstances, God allows fighting and He wants us to stand up for the good.

38 â€œYou have heard that it was said, â€˜Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.â€™h</a>]">[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies

43 â€œYou have heard that it was said, â€˜Love your neighbori</a>]">[i] and hate your enemy.â€™ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

----------------------

Stop bending the dang scriptures....

The final battle is a spiritual one....

And the reason they fought in the Old Testament was for the coming messiah...

You're not going to change your mind are you?

pjt · Nov 14, 2010

Oats said:
38 â€œYou have heard that it was said, â€˜Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.â€™[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies

43 â€œYou have heard that it was said, â€˜Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.â€™ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

----------------------

Stop bending the dang scriptures....

The final battle is a spiritual one....

And the reason they fought in the Old Testament was for the coming messiah...

You're not going to change your mind are you?

So you will turn a blind eye to a woman being raped? A child being kidnapped? A friend or family member`s life being threatened? If you sat on a jury and you were presented with a case where a person beat up another out of self defense, would you judge them as guilty and send them to prison for defending themselves?

"You're not going to change your mind are you?"
Why should I change my mind? You asked a question and I gave an answer. Was the purpose of your question to draw in Christians that you KNEW would have an opposite view from yourself and then try to make us change our minds? If that`s the case, your question was not a pure question. It was a baited question with an ulterior motive. IF that was the reasoning for your question, there is nothing gentlemanly about it because it is set up to automatically disrespect all other opinions and cause contention. In other words, you may not have been starting a physical fight but you certainly were setting the scene for a verbal fight. Is there any difference between that and physically fighting for self defence? A pure question is asked for a person to examine or explore an idea with others. If you felt you already had the answer, why ask the question? Anyway, we are brothers and sisters in Christ, we should not be provoking each other. I think perhaps you could have addressed this topic in a gentler, more straight forward manner like saying upfront "I don`t know why Christians feel there is any reason to fight. Will someone please explain that to me?" Or if you felt you already knew the answer to that question, you could have said "I understand many Christians believe in fighting for XYZ reasons but this is what I believe.... Would anyone like to discuss or debate this with me?" I think that would have been a more fair framework for your question instead of asking and then turning around and saying the person who responded is bending scriptures and won`t change her mind. Just my opinion and I mean no ill will towards you. We can all grow and learn from each other!!!!

Oats · Nov 14, 2010

pjt said:
So you will turn a blind eye to a woman being raped? A child being kidnapped? A friend or family member`s life being threatened? If you sat on a jury and you were presented with a case where a person beat up another out of self defense, would you judge them as guilty and send them to prison for defending themselves?

"You're not going to change your mind are you?"
Why should I change my mind? You asked a question and I gave an answer. Was the purpose of your question to draw in Christians that you KNEW would have an opposite view from yourself and then try to make us change our minds? If that`s the case, your question was not a pure question. It was a baited question with an ulterior motive. IF that was the reasoning for your question, there is nothing gentlemanly about it because it is set up to automatically disrespect all other opinions and cause contention. In other words, you may not have been starting a physical fight but you certainly were setting the scene for a verbal fight. Is there any difference between that and physically fighting for self defence? A pure question is asked for a person to examine or explore an idea with others. If you felt you already had the answer, why ask the question? Anyway, we are brothers and sisters in Christ, we should not be provoking each other. I think perhaps you could have addressed this topic in a gentler, more straight forward manner like saying upfront "I don`t know why Christians feel there is any reason to fight. Will someone please explain that to me?" Or if you felt you already knew the answer to that question, you could have said "I understand many Christians believe in fighting for XYZ reasons but this is what I believe.... Would anyone like to discuss or debate this with me?" I think that would have been a more fair framework for your question instead of asking and then turning around and saying the person who responded is bending scriptures and won`t change her mind. Just my opinion and I mean no ill will towards you. We can all grow and learn from each other!!!!

Why the heck is everyone getting so hostile?!?

I was asking if you'd chage your mind because You wont and neither will I....

Its sad we're proviking each other. What's the point?

Yes I would turn the other cheek in all those situations...

Unless God tells me to do otherwise...

But he told me to turn the other cheek

Nick · Nov 14, 2010

Oats, let me set up the situation for you:
You're walking down the street and see a women being raped. Are you telling me that you wouldn't try and help, or intervene? How can you stand here and just watch that happen?

jasoncran · Nov 14, 2010

i cant in good conscience not render help and here in florida if you are able to assist in an accident or that situation you are liable.

pjt's stance is fairly close to the way i was taught in the martial arts and also is how the law works. when the agressor stops you cant keep fighting him, you must stop.

ie if he has a knife and you draw your weapon and fire, if he drops to the ground and writhes in pain and makes no attempt to continue the attack you cant simply discharge your weapon into him.

if you do so then you are going to be arrested and charged with murder.

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Pacifist or Not- Poll

Fight?

Yes

Sometimes

Never

Oats

jasoncran

Oats

jasoncran

Oats

jasoncran

Oats

Lewis

jasoncran

theLords

pjt

Nick

Lewis

Oats

pjt

Oats

pjt

Oats

Nick

jasoncran