Papal Humility

[Humble Servant]

HUMILTY: Freedom from pride or pretension; a quality enabling a person to see himself as he is and to acknowledge his limitations.
(New Baltimore Catechism)

"Forasmuch as it standeth upon necessity of salvation for every human creature to be subject unto me, the Pope of Rome, it shall therefore requisite and necessary for all men that will be saved to learn and know the dignity of my See and excellency of my domination."(Pope Boniface 8th Extravag. [Commun. Lib. i. tit. 8] de Majori. Et Obed. C. 1.'Unam Sanctum.')

"Thus, you see all must be judged by me, and I of no man. Yea, and though I, Pope of Rome, by my negligence or evil demeanor, be found unprofitable or hurtful, either to myself or others; yea, if I should draw with me innumerable souls by heaps to hell, yet may no mortal man be so hardy, so bold, or so presumptuous, to reprove me, or say to me, Domine cur ita facis; that is, 'Sir, why do you do so?'
(Pope Boniface 8th, dist. 40. c. 'Si Papa'; Glossa. Extr. De sede vacant. 'Ad apostolicus'.)[/quote]

 

[mutzrein]

So nothing has changed really has it?

 

[bbas 64]

Good Day, Humble Servant

The words of Boniface are nothing more than a name it claim it.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[thessalonian]

Humble Servant,

Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us. Does rejection of such authority bring consequence? You seem to think not.

In recognizing the authority one has been given by God is he being humble? Would it be humble of George Bush or not humble of him to say "I command the armies of the United States"? It would depend on the context in which he said it. As long as he recognized his authority and power come from God it would be humble.

 

[Humble Servant]

Tess wrote:
"Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us."

We are not to be submissive to false Christs.
As the so-called, self-appointed 'Vicar of Christ,' the Pope usurps the office of Christ as predicted by both Jesus Christ warning that many shall come in His name and deceive many, Paul in his discourse describing the Man of Sin whos sits as pretended head of the Church, and John in the Revelation describing the blood-thirsty scarlet beast whose religious and secular throne is Rome.

 

[Heidi]

Humble Servant,

Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us. Does rejection of such authority bring consequence? You seem to think not.

In recognizing the authority one has been given by God is he being humble? Would it be humble of George Bush or not humble of him to say "I command the armies of the United States"? It would depend on the context in which he said it. As long as he recognized his authority and power come from God it would be humble.

And if he disagrees with God by declaring himself to be our Holy Father when Jesus tells us specifically not to do that because we have one Father and he is in heaven, what do you think God would have us do, Thessalonian? :o According to your last statement, only as long as the pope is doing what comes from God would it be humble, which the pope is clearly not because he is disobeying Jesus. ;-)

 

[stray bullet]

HUMILTY: Freedom from pride or pretension; a quality enabling a person to see himself as he is and to acknowledge his limitations.
(New Baltimore Catechism)

"Forasmuch as it standeth upon necessity of salvation for every human creature to be subject unto me, the Pope of Rome, it shall therefore requisite and necessary for all men that will be saved to learn and know the dignity of my See and excellency of my domination."(Pope Boniface 8th Extravag. [Commun. Lib. i. tit. 8] de Majori. Et Obed. C. 1.'Unam Sanctum.')

"Thus, you see all must be judged by me, and I of no man. Yea, and though I, Pope of Rome, by my negligence or evil demeanor, be found unprofitable or hurtful, either to myself or others; yea, if I should draw with me innumerable souls by heaps to hell, yet may no mortal man be so hardy, so bold, or so presumptuous, to reprove me, or say to me, Domine cur ita facis; that is, 'Sir, why do you do so?'
(Pope Boniface 8th, dist. 40. c. 'Si Papa'; Glossa. Extr. De sede vacant. 'Ad apostolicus'.)

[/quote]

You had to go 7-800 years to pick up a quote from a Pope in order to bash them? What's the name of your church, group or denomination? I bet I can find you some real good ones from the last 50 years.

In 2000 years of Popes, this is all you got? You'd think with all the corrupt and ego-centered Popes you could do a lot better than this. I think it says a lot about the Catholic Church, that will all the power it had over the centuries and with all the Popes, this is your case.

There was a Pope in the 14th Century that wasn't humble!
What are we supposed to do, leave the Church or hate the Catholic Church because you pulled a couple of statements from a 13th Century Pope?

This is just silly. If anything, this speaks pretty well for the Church.

 

[stray bullet]

You know, if you are looking for more ammunition, just go to the bible. The first Pope, Peter, denied the Lord three times. Perhaps you can get on our case that our leaders and apostles are... human!

 

[stray bullet]

Humble Servant,

Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us. Does rejection of such authority bring consequence? You seem to think not.

In recognizing the authority one has been given by God is he being humble? Would it be humble of George Bush or not humble of him to say "I command the armies of the United States"? It would depend on the context in which he said it. As long as he recognized his authority and power come from God it would be humble.

And if he disagrees with God by declaring himself to be our Holy Father when Jesus tells us specifically not to do that because we have one Father and he is in heaven, what do you think God would have us do, Thessalonian? :o According to your last statement, only as long as the pope is doing what comes from God would it be humble, which the pope is clearly not because he is disobeying Jesus. ;-)

Where did Jesus specially state not to call anyone Holy Father?

Also, which Pope declared himself "Holy Father"?

I love the anti-Catholic rants about calling the Pope or priests 'father'. All it tells me is that they haven't read their bibles as much as they should. The term 'father' in reference to men is used throughout the NT.

 

[Heidi]

Humble Servant,

Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us. Does rejection of such authority bring consequence? You seem to think not.

In recognizing the authority one has been given by God is he being humble? Would it be humble of George Bush or not humble of him to say "I command the armies of the United States"? It would depend on the context in which he said it. As long as he recognized his authority and power come from God it would be humble.

And if he disagrees with God by declaring himself to be our Holy Father when Jesus tells us specifically not to do that because we have one Father and he is in heaven, what do you think God would have us do, Thessalonian? :o According to your last statement, only as long as the pope is doing what comes from God would it be humble, which the pope is clearly not because he is disobeying Jesus. ;-)

Where did Jesus specially state not to call anyone Holy Father?

Also, which Pope declared himself "Holy Father"?

I love the anti-Catholic rants about calling the Pope or priests 'father'. All it tells me is that they haven't read their bibles as much as they should. The term 'father' in reference to men is used throughout the NT.

Do you not understand Matthew 23:9? Jesus specifically told us not to call anyone 'father' because we have one father and he is in heaven. So why would you think that Jesus would condone calling anyone "our Holy Father", particularly when he says in that passage; "He who exalts himself will be humbled"? :o

All popes are called "The Holy Father." The term "father" in the NT is used as references to the biological fathers of men and Paul being the father of the gospel, not our father.

 

[TruthMiner]

Humble Servant,

Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us. Does rejection of such authority bring consequence? You seem to think not.

In recognizing the authority one has been given by God is he being humble? Would it be humble of George Bush or not humble of him to say "I command the armies of the United States"? It would depend on the context in which he said it. As long as he recognized his authority and power come from God it would be humble.

And if he disagrees with God by declaring himself to be our Holy Father when Jesus tells us specifically not to do that because we have one Father and he is in heaven, what do you think God would have us do, Thessalonian? :o According to your last statement, only as long as the pope is doing what comes from God would it be humble, which the pope is clearly not because he is disobeying Jesus. ;-)

Where did Jesus specially state not to call anyone Holy Father?

Also, which Pope declared himself "Holy Father"?

I love the anti-Catholic rants about calling the Pope or priests 'father'. All it tells me is that they haven't read their bibles as much as they should. The term 'father' in reference to men is used throughout the NT.

Do you not understand Matthew 23:9? Jesus specifically told us not to call anyone 'father' because we have one father and he is in heaven. So why would you think that Jesus would condone calling anyone "our Holy Father", particularly when he says in that passage; "He who exalts himself will be humbled"? :o

Then why did Paul call himself the father of the Corinthians? He even goes so far as to say he begat them.

 

[TruthMiner]

Humble Servant,

Are we to be submissive to authorities God places over us. Does rejection of such authority bring consequence? You seem to think not.

In recognizing the authority one has been given by God is he being humble? Would it be humble of George Bush or not humble of him to say "I command the armies of the United States"? It would depend on the context in which he said it. As long as he recognized his authority and power come from God it would be humble.

And if he disagrees with God by declaring himself to be our Holy Father when Jesus tells us specifically not to do that because we have one Father and he is in heaven, what do you think God would have us do, Thessalonian? :o According to your last statement, only as long as the pope is doing what comes from God would it be humble, which the pope is clearly not because he is disobeying Jesus. ;-)

Where did Jesus specially state not to call anyone Holy Father?

Also, which Pope declared himself "Holy Father"?

I love the anti-Catholic rants about calling the Pope or priests 'father'. All it tells me is that they haven't read their bibles as much as they should. The term 'father' in reference to men is used throughout the NT.

Do you not understand Matthew 23:9? Jesus specifically told us not to call anyone 'father' because we have one father and he is in heaven. So why would you think that Jesus would condone calling anyone "our Holy Father", particularly when he says in that passage; "He who exalts himself will be humbled"? :o

Then why did Paul call himself the father of the Corinthians? He even goes so far as to say he begat them.

 

[stray bullet]

Do you not understand Matthew 23:9? Jesus specifically told us not to call anyone 'father' because we have one father and he is in heaven. So why would you think that Jesus would condone calling anyone "our Holy Father", particularly when he says in that passage; "He who exalts himself will be humbled"? :o

All popes are called "The Holy Father." The term "father" in the NT is used as references to the biological fathers of men and Paul being the father of the gospel, not our father.

The problem is that in order to bash Catholics, you are trying to create a standard and interpret a passage in a way that defies reason and contradicts the bible.

If you take that literally, then you can not even call your own father, father, which destroys the very significance of the word.

The purpose was to denouce the Jewish obsession with titles, not destroy the very meaning of the titles to the extreme you are bringing it to. The aposltes called leaders in the Church 'fathers' and Isaac and Abraham their faithers.

To say we are called no man father, we would have to reject parts of the bible which clearly do that... or we just have to read it in the way it was intended.

I know you despise us, because you have been lied to and have fallen victim to the lies of the pit. But don't hate us to an extent that you make the apostles disobedient to the words of Christ.

 

[Heidi]

Do you not understand Matthew 23:9? Jesus specifically told us not to call anyone 'father' because we have one father and he is in heaven. So why would you think that Jesus would condone calling anyone "our Holy Father", particularly when he says in that passage; "He who exalts himself will be humbled"? :o

All popes are called "The Holy Father." The term "father" in the NT is used as references to the biological fathers of men and Paul being the father of the gospel, not our father.

The problem is that in order to bash Catholics, you are trying to create a standard and interpret a passage in a way that defies reason and contradicts the bible.

If you take that literally, then you can not even call your own father, father, which destroys the very significance of the word.

The purpose was to denouce the Jewish obsession with titles, not destroy the very meaning of the titles to the extreme you are bringing it to. The aposltes called leaders in the Church 'fathers' and Isaac and Abraham their faithers.

To say we are called no man father, we would have to reject parts of the bible which clearly do that... or we just have to read it in the way it was intended.

I know you despise us, because you have been lied to and have fallen victim to the lies of the pit. But don't hate us to an extent that you make the apostles disobedient to the words of Christ.

First of all, once we are born again of the Spirit of God, God now replcaes our biological father. We now treat our heavenly Father the same way we treat our biological Father only our trust in God is total because he is infallible.

But even if you don't agree with that, Jesus is specifically referring to religious leaders in this passage so you don't have a leg to stand on when disagreeing with him.

It also doesn't appear that you understand the phrase; "hate the sin, not the sinner." You seem to confuse the sin with the sinner. I don't. I don't hate you at all! As Jesus said; "Hate what is evil and cling to what is good." Lies are evil because they come from the devil. So in the future, do not confuse hating the sin with hating the sinner.

 

[TruthMiner]

Do you not understand Matthew 23:9? Jesus specifically told us not to call anyone 'father' because we have one father and he is in heaven. So why would you think that Jesus would condone calling anyone "our Holy Father", particularly when he says in that passage; "He who exalts himself will be humbled"? :o

All popes are called "The Holy Father." The term "father" in the NT is used as references to the biological fathers of men and Paul being the father of the gospel, not our father.

The problem is that in order to bash Catholics, you are trying to create a standard and interpret a passage in a way that defies reason and contradicts the bible.

If you take that literally, then you can not even call your own father, father, which destroys the very significance of the word.

The purpose was to denouce the Jewish obsession with titles, not destroy the very meaning of the titles to the extreme you are bringing it to. The aposltes called leaders in the Church 'fathers' and Isaac and Abraham their faithers.

To say we are called no man father, we would have to reject parts of the bible which clearly do that... or we just have to read it in the way it was intended.

I know you despise us, because you have been lied to and have fallen victim to the lies of the pit. But don't hate us to an extent that you make the apostles disobedient to the words of Christ.

First of all, once we are born again of the Spirit of God, God now replcaes our biological father. We now treat our heavenly Father the same way we treat our biological Father only our trust in God is total because he is infallible.

But even if you don't agree with that, Jesus is specifically referring to religious leaders in this passage so you don't have a leg to stand on when disagreeing with him.

Why did the religious leader Paul call himself the father of the Corinthians? He even goes so far as to say he begat them.

 

[Heidi]

So why did the catholics specifically choose the word "Father" as a title? What is the point? They are no more my biological father than they are my heavenly Father.

And Paul never asked the Corinthians to call him "Father". Never. Freud is the father of psychology but we do not call him "Father Freud" because he is not our father. That is why Jesus said not to call anyone 'father'. Calling someone "Father" suggests a personal relationship between us and that person in a fatherly sense. And again, once we are norn of God's Spirit, God is our one Father. That's also why Jesus said in the same passage not to call anyone 'teacher' because we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit, we see the whole world through the mind of Christ. And only when you are born again do you understand what Jesus means.

Jesus also tells us this because the one who asks us to call him father is exalting himself as Jesus says in Matthew 12. There is nothing more arrogant than taking a title that Jesus says is reserved for God alone.

 

[TruthMiner]

So why did the catholics specifically choose the word "Father" as a title? What is the point? They are no more my biological father than they are my heavenly Father.

And Paul never asked the Corinthians to call him "Father". Never. Freud is the father of psychology but we do not call him "Father Freud" because he is not our father. That is why Jesus said not to call anyone 'father'. Calling someone "Father" suggests a personal relationship between us and that person in a fatherly sense. And again, once we are norn of God's Spirit, God is our one Father. That's also why Jesus said in the same passage not to call anyone 'teacher' because we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit, we see the whole world through the mind of Christ. And only when you are born again do you understand what Jesus means.

Jesus also tells us this because the one who asks us to call him father is exalting himself as Jesus says in Matthew 12. There is nothing more arrogant than taking a title that Jesus says is reserved for God alone.

Yeah you are right. Paul never ASKED the Corinthians to call him father. He just TOLD them he was.

 

[stray bullet]

We can go around in circles all day-

Was it wrong of the apostles to refer to Isaac and Abraham as their fathers?
Was it wrong of the apostles to call leaders in the church at the time fathers?

To answer your question as to why Catholic do it, we are simply doing what our Church has done since the days of the apostles. They've always called leaders 'fathers', just as the jews were doing.

Where Jesus seems to be taking an issue, is when they were taking personal pride in the titles.

 

[TruthMiner]

So why did the catholics specifically choose the word "Father" as a title? What is the point? They are no more my biological father than they are my heavenly Father.

And Paul never asked the Corinthians to call him "Father". Never. Freud is the father of psychology but we do not call him "Father Freud" because he is not our father. That is why Jesus said not to call anyone 'father'. Calling someone "Father" suggests a personal relationship between us and that person in a fatherly sense. And again, once we are norn of God's Spirit, God is our one Father. That's also why Jesus said in the same passage not to call anyone 'teacher' because we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit, we see the whole world through the mind of Christ. And only when you are born again do you understand what Jesus means.

Jesus also tells us this because the one who asks us to call him father is exalting himself as Jesus says in Matthew 12. There is nothing more arrogant than taking a title that Jesus says is reserved for God alone.

Yeah you are right. Paul never ASKED the Corinthians to call him father. He just TOLD them he was.


Obviously, you read the Bible selectively.

 

[thessalonian]

So why did the catholics specifically choose the word "Father" as a title? What is the point? They are no more my biological father than they are my heavenly Father.

And Paul never asked the Corinthians to call him "Father". Never. Freud is the father of psychology but we do not call him "Father Freud" because he is not our father. That is why Jesus said not to call anyone 'father'. Calling someone "Father" suggests a personal relationship between us and that person in a fatherly sense. And again, once we are norn of God's Spirit, God is our one Father. That's also why Jesus said in the same passage not to call anyone 'teacher' because we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit, we see the whole world through the mind of Christ. And only when you are born again do you understand what Jesus means.

Jesus also tells us this because the one who asks us to call him father is exalting himself as Jesus says in Matthew 12. There is nothing more arrogant than taking a title that Jesus says is reserved for God alone.

Yeah you are right. Paul never ASKED the Corinthians to call him father. He just TOLD them he was.


Obviously, you read the Bible selectively.

That's a pretty poor out. It's okay to call yourself father and tell people that you are their father? (according to the hyperliteral rendering of Matt 23:9) but then if they call you father back you slap them with a DON"T DO THAT YOU WICKED PEOPLE. Common! Silly. By the way I've never had a priest tell me to call him father. NEVER.