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[thessalonian]

Thess, are you saying a person can be "God-fearing and righteous" without being born again?

I am not saying it. The scriptures say Cornelius was a "God fearing and righteous man". So are you saying that you can be "born again" without knowing the name of Christ? Cornelius didn't you know. Neither did Job. Hellbound they were I guess. Now are you telling me that Cornelius was born again before Peter without the knowledge of Jesus?

[quote:72578]No in fact you are superimposing traditions over the passage on Cornelius.

: Thess, come on.[/quote:72578]


You tell me none seek God because of the passage in Romans. That is a non-catholic tradition that you are superimposing over this whole conversation. You misinterpret the scripture however and so it is a tradition of man.

Perhaps you can show me in Chruch history where a Catholic said that X moselm was saved? See your catechism.

I see the words "may be saved"and "CAN BE SAVED". It does not say ANY MOSELMS are saved, were saved, or will be saved. It is only in non-catholic traditions of what Catholicism says that Moslems ARE, HAVE BEEN, and WILL BE SAVED. There are none named among our canonized saints are there. In fact there are no protestants among them either. :

"can and may?" Then the catechism isn't saying anything. It offers nothing.

Non-Catholics want a judgement on everyone. They want a complete list of who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. Taking away the job of the one judge. Oddly enough you have me on the heaven side and solo has me on the hell side.

And you take any non-catholic answer, unless it's liberal, because it fits you[r] biases about Biblicism.

Huh? Don't know what you mean here. Sorry.

:smt118 You have to admitt, you didn't see it coming...

No, It doesn't surprize me. I've seen it before. It's a fault I've seen in you and I am keen to it because I can be that way as well. Still love ya bro.

Both Job and Cornelius had to have knowledge of the true God and His revelation and there is only one way thru His word. The Bible doesn't say there is any other way but by the preaching of the word. This is implied when one speaks of "fear of God." How does one fear God without knowledge of God? How does one have knowledge of God? Now, how does one have a saving knowledge of God, by what means does God use to call man?

This is the root of your error.
God does not reveal himself through creation? You haven't read the psalms. All creation cries out to the glory of God!

Ps.19
[1] The heavens are telling the glory of God;
and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.

Romans 1
[19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
[20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;

He was talking about the greeks and romans. They were expected to see the one true God in nature. This wasn't about Jews who had the scriptures.


What on earth does this mean?
[26] And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
[27] that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
[28] for `In him we live and move and have our being';

Put it in context. He was talking to pagans here and said some of them find God.

 

[JM]

And there you have it folks. 8-)

 

[thessalonian]

Have what? Was cornelius a "righteous and God fearing man" or not? Would you start a thread about Cornelius "The God of Cornelius was a false God!".

 

[JM]

Have what? Was cornelius a "righteous and God fearing man" or not? Would you start a thread about Cornelius "The God of Cornelius was a false God!".

Have a works based faith, if Cornelius didn't know Christ, then he is working his way thru the narrow gate. You claim he wasn't a Jew and he was righteous without being a Jew and not knowing Christ...the Bible doesn't allow for loop holes.

So, there you have it. Two different points of view.

 

[thessalonian]

Have what? Was cornelius a "righteous and God fearing man" or not? Would you start a thread about Cornelius "The God of Cornelius was a false God!".

Have a works based faith, if Cornelius didn't know Christ, then he is working his way thru the narrow gate. You claim he wasn't a Jew and he was righteous without being a Jew and not knowing Christ...the Bible doesn't allow for loop holes.

So, there you have it. Two different points of view.

You seem to be hedging on cornelius. You said read solo's post if I want you clear answer that you said you were going to give. I'm still not sure I have it. Solo said Cornelius would have gone to hell, had he died before Peter came. Yet you also seem to think he was a prosylite and therefore could have been going to heaven. Which is it? If he was a prosylite then Peter's dream does not make much sense, for he would have been circumcized and been following the dietary laws. It is quite clear he is a gentile. It said the Jews thought quite highly of him. Yet we are told by Peter that they had heard of Christ. They apparently had not come to a belief in Christ, for there would have been no need for Peter if they had. No indication he had outright rejected Christ of course. But he clearly had not accepted him as savior either. All of this and yet he is called a "righteous and God-fearing man". Something is just not adding up in your posts and PM's. Still no clear answer on Cornelius it seems and some inconsistancies you are unwilling to acknowledge or deal with I am sure.

Cornelius had a faith in God, as much as he had been given the grace to know. His works were a sign of the grace of God that had brought him to where he was at. I simply choose not to judge him. Now can you give me that simple answer that you said you would give to my question. I don't believe I have it yet.

 

[JM]

How is anyone saved? By Grace [yes] thru faith [this is a fact]. How can someone who doesn't know Jesus Christ be saved? They can't. This is the faith mentioned.

ttt

 

[thessalonian]

How is anyone saved? By Grace [yes] thru faith [this is a fact]. How can someone who doesn't know Jesus Christ be saved? They can't. This is the faith mentioned.

ttt

A God-fearing and righteous man goes to hell? How could someone even be said to be God fearing and righteous if their belief in God, though not knowing Christ, was no faith at all?

 

[golfjack]

reply

There is no other way to the pearly gates except through Jesus. He said, I am the way, truth, and life.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

There is no other way to the pearly gates except through Jesus. He said, I am the way, truth, and life.



May God bless, golfjack

Jesus being God, how could Cornelius, having faith in God, not be through Jesus? :o

 

[golfjack]

reply

And your point is?


May God bless, golfjack

 

[thessalonian]

Read the thread.

Thought you said you knew Catholicism. Surely you know about this topic.

 

[golfjack]

reply

They never told me that one can be saved without Jesus Christ. In fact, they never taught me much of anything, except condemnation.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

They never told me that one can be saved without Jesus Christ. In fact, they never taught me much of anything, except condemnation.



May God bless, golfjack

Ya, that's what Catholicism is all about. Everybody going to hell. Downiversalism is what they teach. :-?

 

[JM]

Re: reply

There is no other way to the pearly gates except through Jesus. He said, I am the way, truth, and life.



May God bless, golfjack

Amen.

ttt