Party Time

[Willie T]

I think most of you know there are two "ChristianForums... this one is ".net", and the other is .com". This comes from the other one. Unfortunately, most of the people over there, like many people here, would have a hard time saying "AMEN" to this article.
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Somewhere in the last 2000 years we’ve missed the point. Church is a solemn and depressing place in many denominational parishes. The quiet “reverence” of the buildings misses the point. Masses in Latin, canticles in old English or the more modern service books all emphasize the necessity to be quiet in God’s presence.

The point is missed.

Jesus was referred to as a winebibber and a glutton.

“The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, Behold, a Man Who is a glutton and a wine drinker, a friend of tax collectors and notorious sinners.” Luke 7:34 (Amplified)

A friend of notorious sinners. That would be us they’re referring to. And Jesus came eating and drinking wine. While I’m certain He wasn’t drunk, He certainly wasn’t averse to a party. Consider the wedding feast in Cana. Think about His reputation with the religious zealots. This was a man who was not afraid to have a good time.

He hung out with hookers and employees of the IRS. Today we may not grasp the enormity of the statement, but back in His day the tax collectors were considered even lower on the hierarchy. They were quislings and traitors who were in the pocket of the Romans and robbed their own people to line their own pockets.

And Jesus saw nothing wrong with hanging out with them. In fact, He sought them out. He described them as lost sheep, and pointed out to the religious minded that they were exactly the people He was there for. How things have changed.

There’s an annual event in Cape Town, my current home, called the “Sexpo”. As the unimaginative title suggests, it’s aimed at sexual gratification in all its worldly guises. I’m not sure Jesus would have gone along to have a look, but I’m certain a man whose reputation included hanging out with prostitutes and whose closest circle included a reformed hooker would not have been in the mob of zealots outside telling the entrants they’re all going to hell, directly to hell, do not pass “go” and do not collect $200.

Jesus knew how to party. And more significantly, the parties He got involved in were parties that attracted sinners. When was the last time people were lining up to get into your church? How often is the summer fete so jammed full that there’s no space for more? Contrast it with nightclubs and parties where people today have to line up for hours to go in. Why isn’t God’s house a place as welcoming and alive as these places which are so worldly?

The tithe was a great example. If we read the Law books correctly, the tithe was to be gathered annually for a celebration of God’s goodness – a party. Imagine the scene if it had actually been done that way! Instead of a back-breaking burden, a party where everyone could share in the Joy of being God’s Children! Religious mindsets twisted the intended purpose and wrecked God’s intended plan for His people to remember His Love and Provision for them each year. The Year of Jubilee was the Fiftieth Year when every debt was to be cancelled. Freedom and a way to eradicate poverty in His Kingdom. Small wonder that the religious failed to fully implement it. The rich tend to control the power and they wouldn’t want that power base disrupted.

But we have a God who loves a party. Read Jesus’ description of the Kingdom of Heaven and tell me it doesn’t sound like a party. Celebration of God’s goodness with crowns and True Worship, a place of Joy and Peace with no sorrow and suffering. A real party going on after time itself ceases to exist. As Amazing Grace notes, when we’ve spent a thousand years in Heaven we’ll be no nearer the end than the day we arrived.

Consider the story of the Prodigal Son. The first thing the Father does when he returns home in repentance is throw a feast to celebrate. The story is a parable of how the Kingdom will be, not only acceptance but a blow-out celebration that we’re home. The Bible is so full of images of feasting, parties and celebrations that it’s impossible to quote the passages here. I’d have to copy the entire script – somewhat lengthy.

The only conclusion we can reasonably make is that we have a God who not only loves us unconditionally, He delights in our happiness and will throw a party any time we give him the chance.

“Suppose one of you had a hundred sheep and lost one. Wouldn’t you leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the lost one until you found it? When found, you can be sure you would put it across your shoulders, rejoicing, and when you got home call in your friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Celebrate with me! I’ve found my lost sheep!’ Count on it—there’s more joy in heaven over one sinner’s rescued life than over ninety-nine good people in no need of rescue.” (Luke 15:4-7 The Message)

“Celebrate with me”. The impression is this is more than a few high-fives in the Heavens if we’re the lost sheep. It’s time to party.

Wouldn’t you like to be a follower of a God who likes to party?

I know I would.

Tony Campolo told a story at Greenbelt in the UK back in 1990 about a time he was in Honolulu and managed to get caught up organizing a party for a working girl. When the owner of the shop they used challenged him about being a preacher his response was something like “I serve a God who throws parties for hooker’s birthdays at 3:30 in the morning!” The reply was immediate. “There is no church like that. I’d join a church like that!”

Wouldn’t we all?

Check it out, Church. If Jesus is alive – which He is – It’s PARTY TIME!

 

[Edward]

You're right brother. I've noticed this too. :woot

Nothing wrong with a good party/celebration as long as the Lord is the Man of Honor.

 

[reba]

Was Jesus a friend of sinners that were not repentented ?

 

[follower]

think about it. take a good long time. Yeshua forgave peoples sins. He told them the Kingdom of Yhwh is close, turn to Him. (not 'you're all horrible sinners, repent!').

but in all Yeshua did, He never sinned nor condoned sin. all the apostles exposed sin and wickedness wherever it was, even amongst themselves, OPENLY. (not hush hush; not 'don't air the dirty laundry where every one can see it) - they admitted, confessed of, brought out into the open, and repented of ALL their sins. (and many were punished in the N.T. if they didn't; i.e. ananias and saphira; the ones sick / dying because they simply didn't recognize the body; others delivered into the hands of satan so that perhaps their souls could be saved; others SHUNNED because they called themselves believers and didn't repent of ongoing sin; and so on --- sin was effectively exposed, brought out in the light, and dealt with (not coddled, swept under the rug, ignored and forgotten).

so Yhwh was not ashamed to be in union with them and to be called their God. they were clean, made clean by the blood of the Lamb - Extreme Price Paid to buy their (and our) freedom, and they lived clean lives by and in the power of Yeshua in Yhwh's Grace.

they didn't defend or worry about offending the ones who served the enemy of Christ. they didn't try to remain on good terms with them who served the enemy yet called themselves 'Believers'(and were not). they didn't have rules against exposing obvious and hideous and pernicious sin in the leaders, nor silence the ones who brought it out to the light.

and they didn't have the form of religion and deny the power thereof. they lived holy, set apart lives. they healed the sick. they raised the dead. they were
.....................constantly full of joy, and peace, and the holy spirit .................................

 

[Edward]

He was their physician for sure.

 

[follower]

He was their physician for sure.

....Who said I will never leave you nor forsake you. Lo, I Am with you always, even unto the end.
unbelievable in the world ! ----- God abiding with men!

 

[Willie T]

Man...................................... Are some of you guys forgetting the biggest verse in the Bible?

"In that WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS......... !!!!!!!!!! NOT after we straightened up. NOT after we got "clean". NOT after we did something. NOT if we qualified, first.

OF COURSE Jesus was a friend of unrepentant sinners. He looked at the Rich Young Ruler, and LOVED him, before the man even said a word... and we are never told this man repented of anything... merely that he went away sad because he did love him some possessions.

 

[reba]

Ok so go with the thoughts of a 'licence to sin' Sally the hooker Jesus doesn't care if you hook... Sam and Joe your relationship if just fine with God... You theives dont worry about doing jail time here you have a home in His kingdom I bet Jesus gave you that phone so you could gossip ... Next time You Mr. Bundy are planing a murder lets have a party to celebrate.it,. A good time to have an adulterous affair would be a party.....


You are so right this is Scripture
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

This is also scripture
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
One is not more scripture than the other passage .. Some place is a balance....

I am nothing but a sinner saved by His grace

 

[jasonc]

I couldn't go to a players ball, why? I wouldn't be alive when I came home, if she didn't kill me, the third leg would be surgically removed!

 

[Willie T]

Ok so go with the thoughts of a 'licence to sin' Sally the hooker Jesus doesn't care if you hook... Sam and Joe your relationship if just fine with God... You theives dont worry about doing jail time here you have a home in His kingdom I bet Jesus gave you that phone so you could gossip ... Next time You Mr. Bundy are planing a murder lets have a party to celebrate.it,. A good time to have an adulterous affair would be a party.....


You are so right this is Scripture
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

This is also scripture
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
One is not more scripture than the other passage .. Some place is a balance....

I am nothing but a sinner saved by His grace

And, interestingly, as I understand it, so is your example of Mr. Bundy, since it is said he accepted Christ.

And, "Yes", the Bible states, repeatedly, that God loves the hooker still hooking, and the thief still stealing. The fact that they are choosing to reject Christ, and face the punishment for that, does not change God's love for them, one iota.

 

[jasonc]

And, interestingly, as I understand it, so is your example of Mr. Bundy, since it is said he accepted Christ.

And, "Yes", the Bible states, repeatedly that God loves the hooker still hooking, and the thief still stealing. The fact that they are choosing to reject Christ, and face the punishment for that, does not change God's love for them, one iota.

ok, I get that but what about avoiding temptation. where I live we have a woman sell her body. should go hang with her while she works the street? I understand reaching them. but we must also be very cautious.

 

[Willie T]

ok, I get that but what about avoiding temptation. where I live we have a woman sell her body. should go hang with her while she works the street? I understand reaching them. but we must also be very cautious.

Where else are you going to be able to reach her, and let her get to see Christ in you as she sees your walk and talk, day by day? Do you think she's going to rush to come to one of our churches just because we "blessed" the red light district by our presence for long enough to shove some tracts in a few hands?

 

[jasonc]

Where else are you going to be able to reach her, and let her get to see Christ in you as she sees your walk and talk, day by day? Do you think she's going to rush to come to one of our churches just because we "blessed" the red light district by our presence for long enough to shove some tracts in a few hands?

I didn't say that we shouldn't reach them but since I have had her arrested in that we helped bust her bf for drug dealing. if I was caught hanging with her and arrested for association. that does happen. they may ask me to testify against her. she would sell cocaine in front of kids. my wife wanted her gone, she also stole a truck from a friend and he kicked her out. not all of these characters are that trustworthy. I suggest being led of god to do that especially when a three year old is needed raising. while lame compared to the big inner city problems my community has two murders just before I moved in and two attempted.while I can see the concept. which my church does that already I believe. we do have men whom go into these areas. but I simply because of what I did hang with a hooker, I can talk to her but she will not be in my home without being watched. remember an unrepentant person may use you and steal from you if they are bad enough. she also used. wisdom! she has a rap sheet of over 20 arrests!

 

[jasonc]

I have family members whom use pot, and drink. I use wisdom around them. my niece in law cant come here and be around my grandkids per their mother. for safety of the kids. she drinks and drives.

 

[Willie T]

I didn't say that we shouldn't reach them but since I have had her arrested in that we helped bust her bf for drug dealing. if I was caught hanging with her and arrested for association. that does happen. they may ask me to testify against her. she would sell cocaine in front of kids. my wife wanted her gone, she also stole a truck from a friend and he kicked her out. not all of these characters are that trustworthy. I suggest being led of god to do that especially when a three year old is needed raising. while lame compared to the big inner city problems my community has two murders just before I moved in and two attempted.while I can see the concept. which my church does that already I believe. we do have men whom go into these areas. but I simply because of what I did hang with a hooker, I can talk to her but she will not be in my home without being watched. remember an unrepentant person may use you and steal from you if they are bad enough. she also used. wisdom! she has a rap sheet of over 20 arrests!

As long as you're comfortable with how you do things, then, by all means, live it.

 

[jasonc]

As long as you're comfortable with how you do things, then, by all means, live it.

safety is the key. I have been into worse areas telling about the gospel. but I also know from my days the other end of this. as it is how I got saved.

 

[reba]

Partying with and sharing the gospel are not the same thing... Pay the hooker $20 or $200 and buy her breakfast... you dont have to party with her...

If Ted Bundy gave his life to the Lord we will see him in heaven same as anyone else.

 

[Obadiah]

I kinda saw the OP a little differently than some. I didn't see it as having a "party" with sinners in order to celebrate and do the things that are sins like a lot of people define "party" these days. I didn't see the word "party" as meaning sinning. I saw it as meaning people getting together to have a good time in some kind of celebration. I saw it as having a grand party to celebrate the Lord, and just not rejecting sinners from entry (either officially, just by our attitudes toward them, or by making it boring for them.) This was how I read the scriptures about Jesus hanging around with these kind of people. Not that he was condoning or encouraging sinful behavior, just that he wasn't chasing the people who needed his salvation away with a condemning, arrogant, or exclusionary attitude.

I also saw in the OP the idea that maybe the way a lot of us do things as the church body isn't always the only way. For example, I'm talking about those of us who say anything that is entertaining "just can't be of the Lord" and has to be wrong. "If it's new, it's wrong." They are the ones who will (for example) prohibit a band in church, or if they allow it, it must be hidden as much as possible off to the side and be kept fairly quiet so as not to encourage people to focus on it and maybe even (gasp) be entertained by it. They are the ones who will prohibit things such as dancing, even though there are examples of it in scripture. They are the ones that Dr Curtis Mitchell from Biola University used to describe as "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good."

I didn't take it that he was suggesting we have to condone the sin in order to attract sinners into our midst. (So they can hear the gospel message, and actually WANT to accept it.) I took it as saying we should provide and atmosphere that lost sinners will see as fun and inviting so they will want to be part of it, and therefore actually want to hear more about who we are. If you invite prostitutes to your "party" it doesn't mean they are going to be prostituting while there, anymore than the mechanic you invited probably isn't going to want to go out to the parking lot and start tuning up people's car engines. Just like most people want to go to a party just to have fun and not to work, they also want the same thing. Same thing with many of the other unsavory types in our society. I'm sure Jesus knew how to put his foot down if someone decided to sin in his presence. We can do the same!

So should all our worship services be a big party? NO WAY! Not everyone can worship that way! But maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for some of our church leaders to loosen up a bit when someone wants to do something that's different than what conventional church type activities have become.

As an example I think of Chuck Smith. Chuck was the founding pastor of the original Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California. In the early 1970's he was a middle aged pastor ministering to a typical straight laced congregation having typical church type activities. Someone came to him with the concern that there were a lot of younger people in the area that didn't seem to know Jesus, no one was doing anything to take the gospel to them. These people weren't at all interested in setting foot in a church for a typical worship service of older people dressed in their Sunday best singing hymns, listening to boring sermons, and judging them for their long hair, beards, and bell bottomed tie died clothing. It was the early 70's, and many of the teens and young adults were hippies celebrating the age of "sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll". Chuck was appalled at the idea of "these kind of people" coming into his church and scaring away all his "normal" congregants. But he did recognize the truth of what he was being told, and after some thought, realized that God did indeed want to reach out to all these young sinners outside his doors. But he didn't want to alienate his congregation either. So they decided to find some young Christian rock and roll musicians and put some bands together that would play a few concerts for the young folk on Friday or Saturday nights that would include a gospel message along with the fun. Chuck was scared of this, but knew this is what God wanted, so he went along.

They filled their large church building! They filled it with young, mostly unchurched people who were ready to hear the gospel. These people had never seen anything like this before. Imagine, a CHURCH building, full of hippies listening to a rock and roll band... TALKING ABOUT JESUS! They wanted more of this. They went forward at alter calls to accept Christ by the hundreds! Chuck decided to keep the concerts going, and in no time they were filling the church every Saturday night! Unless you got there early not only couldn't you get a seat inside, you couldn't even get near to the door to hear the music and message on the outdoor speakers because of the crowds overflowing into the parking lot. I know, I was there and saw it with my own eyes! And every week, crowds were coming to know Jesus!

These outreach concerts were the birth of the "Jesus Movement" of the 70's when it actually became "cool" among teenagers to be a Christian! They were the birth of a lot of big name Christian musicians we accept as mainstream today. Some of the songs written by these musicians playing at the Calvary Saturday night concerts are now printed in church hymnals! This was the birth of companies like Maranatha Music, who started off providing tape recordings of the concerts from a small building (a garage if memory serves) on the church property. By the late 70's and into the early 80's you were hard pressed to find a church youth group or young adult group anywhere in Southern California that didn't have at least some people who had come to know Jesus at one of those Calvary Chapel concerts in Costa Mesa. Before you knew it, Calvary Chapel itself started to expand to other areas. Today they have churches all over the world, largely as a result of their willingness to do something different back in the early 70's. Their willingness to party with the sinners in a way that spread the gospel without condoning the sin.

Those were phenomenal times for evangelism. I think the time is here again for something like that to happen. I'm not sure what the trigger will be, but several people I know have said they are sensing the same thing. After praying for years for God to open a door for me, just this month I'm newly involved in a new ministry that has a feel of God driving it that I honestly haven't felt since those days back in the 70's and 80's. I'm anxiously waiting to see what God has planned for the near future. But I can almost guarantee one thing... If there is to be another major movement for Jesus in our midst, it will probably not come from "a solemn and depressing place (as are) many denominational parishes". It will come from something different. Something people will be excited to be part of as the Southern California young people of the 70's were excited. It will not come from people who worship God solely out of duty. It will come through those who are excited, innovative, and willing to go in whatever direction God leads them even when it goes against their long held ideas of what "church" should be! We all need to wake up to the unsaved around us and show them that God is GOOD!

 

[Willie T]

I kinda saw the OP a little differently than some. I didn't see it as having a "party" with sinners in order to celebrate and do the things that are sins like a lot of people define "party" these days. I didn't see the word "party" as meaning sinning. I saw it as meaning people getting together to have a good time in some kind of celebration. I saw it as having a grand party to celebrate the Lord, and just not rejecting sinners from entry (either officially, just by our attitudes toward them, or by making it boring for them.) This was how I read the scriptures about Jesus hanging around with these kind of people. Not that he was condoning or encouraging sinful behavior, just that he wasn't chasing the people who needed his salvation away with a condemning, arrogant, or exclusionary attitude.

I also saw in the OP the idea that maybe the way a lot of us do things as the church body isn't always the only way. For example, I'm talking about those of us who say anything that is entertaining "just can't be of the Lord" and has to be wrong. "If it's new, it's wrong." They are the ones who will (for example) prohibit a band in church, or if they allow it, it must be hidden as much as possible off to the side and be kept fairly quiet so as not to encourage people to focus on it and maybe even (gasp) be entertained by it. They are the ones who will prohibit things such as dancing, even though there are examples of it in scripture. They are the ones that Dr Curtis Mitchell from Biola University used to describe as "so heavenly minded they're no earthly good."

I didn't take it that he was suggesting we have to condone the sin in order to attract sinners into our midst. (So they can hear the gospel message, and actually WANT to accept it.) I took it as saying we should provide and atmosphere that lost sinners will see as fun and inviting so they will want to be part of it, and therefore actually want to hear more about who we are. If you invite prostitutes to your "party" it doesn't mean they are going to be prostituting while there, anymore than the mechanic you invited probably isn't going to want to go out to the parking lot and start tuning up people's car engines. Just like most people want to go to a party just to have fun and not to work, they also want the same thing. Same thing with many of the other unsavory types in our society. I'm sure Jesus knew how to put his foot down if someone decided to sin in his presence. We can do the same!

So should all our worship services be a big party? NO WAY! Not everyone can worship that way! But maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for some of our church leaders to loosen up a bit when someone wants to do something that's different than what conventional church type activities have become.

As an example I think of Chuck Smith. Chuck was the founding pastor of the original Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California. In the early 1970's he was a middle aged pastor ministering to a typical straight laced congregation having typical church type activities. Someone came to him with the concern that there were a lot of younger people in the area that didn't seem to know Jesus, no one was doing anything to take the gospel to them. These people weren't at all interested in setting foot in a church for a typical worship service of older people dressed in their Sunday best singing hymns, listening to boring sermons, and judging them for their long hair, beards, and bell bottomed tie died clothing. It was the early 70's, and many of the teens and young adults were hippies celebrating the age of "sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll". Chuck was appalled at the idea of "these kind of people" coming into his church and scaring away all his "normal" congregants. But he did recognize the truth of what he was being told, and after some thought, realized that God did indeed want to reach out to all these young sinners outside his doors. But he didn't want to alienate his congregation either. So they decided to find some young Christian rock and roll musicians and put some bands together that would play a few concerts for the young folk on Friday or Saturday nights that would include a gospel message along with the fun. Chuck was scared of this, but knew this is what God wanted, so he went along.

They filled their large church building! They filled it with young, mostly unchurched people who were ready to hear the gospel. These people had never seen anything like this before. Imagine, a CHURCH building, full of hippies listening to a rock and roll band... TALKING ABOUT JESUS! They wanted more of this. They went forward at alter calls to accept Christ by the hundreds! Chuck decided to keep the concerts going, and in no time they were filling the church every Saturday night! Unless you got there early not only couldn't you get a seat inside, you couldn't even get near to the door to hear the music and message on the outdoor speakers because of the crowds overflowing into the parking lot. I know, I was there and saw it with my own eyes! And every week, crowds were coming to know Jesus!

These outreach concerts were the birth of the "Jesus Movement" of the 70's when it actually became "cool" among teenagers to be a Christian! They were the birth of a lot of big name Christian musicians we accept as mainstream today. Some of the songs written by these musicians playing at the Calvary Saturday night concerts are now printed in church hymnals! This was the birth of companies like Maranatha Music, who started off providing tape recordings of the concerts from a small building (a garage if memory serves) on the church property. By the late 70's and into the early 80's you were hard pressed to find a church youth group or young adult group anywhere in Southern California that didn't have at least some people who had come to know Jesus at one of those Calvary Chapel concerts in Costa Mesa. Before you knew it, Calvary Chapel itself started to expand to other areas. Today they have churches all over the world, largely as a result of their willingness to do something different back in the early 70's. Their willingness to party with the sinners in a way that spread the gospel without condoning the sin.

Those were phenomenal times for evangelism. I think the time is here again for something like that to happen. I'm not sure what the trigger will be, but several people I know have said they are sensing the same thing. After praying for years for God to open a door for me, just this month I'm newly involved in a new ministry that has a feel of God driving it that I honestly haven't felt since those days back in the 70's and 80's. I'm anxiously waiting to see what God has planned for the near future. But I can almost guarantee one thing... If there is to be another major movement for Jesus in our midst, it will probably not come from "a solemn and depressing place (as are) many denominational parishes". It will come from something different. Something people will be excited to be part of as the Southern California young people of the 70's were excited. It will not come from people who worship God solely out of duty. It will come through those who are excited, innovative, and willing to go in whatever direction God leads them even when it goes against their long held ideas of what "church" should be! We all need to wake up to the unsaved around us and show them that God is GOOD!

Wow ! Another person who sounds like he slipped into one of the back pews at our Vineyard church, and sat there, listening. (The Vineyard kind of grabbed the torch when the Calvary Chapel started cooling down, and we left their group to do church a bit differently.) Sadly, even the Vineyard is slipping into "traditionalism" a little bit, the past few years. Maybe there is a new awakening starting out there in the younger people who see Jesus more than they just "do church". I hope so.

 

[reba]

Those were phenomenal times for evangelism. I think the time is here again for something like that to happen. I'm not sure what the trigger will be, but several people I know have said they are sensing the same thing. After praying for years for God to open a door for me, just this month I'm newly involved in a new ministry that has a feel of God driving it that I honestly haven't felt since those days back in the 70's and 80's. I'm anxiously waiting to see what God has planned for the near future. But I can almost guarantee one thing... If there is to be another major movement for Jesus in our midst, it will probably not come from "a solemn and depressing place (as are) many denominational parishes". It will come from something different. Something people will be excited to be part of as the Southern California young people of the 70's were excited. It will not come from people who worship God solely out of duty. It will come through those who are excited, innovative, and willing to go in whatever direction God leads them even when it goes against their long held ideas of what "church" should be! We all need to wake up to the unsaved around us and show them that God is GOOD!

Obadiah Your whole post well said ... Blessing on the ministry